20,000 Watt Medical Grow Op Construction

mellokitty

mellokitty

Moderatrix of Journals
i once had someone who's opinion i respect describe "marlie's collie" as "sativa light", not in a bad way...
 
hellraizer30

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
Hey CG came across this stuff at the local shop its call mighty wash. Its a freq water that kills by electric energy
That bugs cant grow a imunity to and kills all bugs and ages. If bugs are still a problem look into it, also its safe
For plants
 
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rosecitypapa

rosecitypapa

Active Member
collective gardener said:
I understand exactly what you are proposing with the screen false bottom. Just keep in mind that roots are persistant and can work their way through the finest of mesh with time. I may try something similar. The real difference between mine and the under current is my low flow volume. I really just want enough flow to facilitate checking PH, TDS, and changing solution at a central location (the res). Also, tying in the buckets with a res gives us that much more solution. I'm not sure what all that volume of flow does for the Undercurrent system. I mean, it looks cool, and all. I can see the additional O2 for the return water falling into the res. But, I wonder what exactly all that flow does. I'm really just looking for the same growth that I got from 1 bucket and an air stone. I just don't want to service 90 individual buckets. At the same time, I'm not a fan of totally connecting everything in the room. 8 plants seems like a nice number. Those will also fit nice under 2 - 1000 watt lights. I'm leaning more and more towards just having a fixed plant location. It would make my life easier. We would just adjust the plant size with veg time and Bushmaster.
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I think the flow would make a difference late in bloom when the roots fill the buckets - like a clogged filter on a vacuum cleaner, it still works but sub-optimally and with stress.

The flow would also effect the water temp by having the main rez in a cooler space/shaded from light/chiller.

For me, when testing the UC design, I liked the visual of the nutes mixing via the undercurrent. I didn't follow through with it though when my diy setup started leaking. Granted I didn't use the uniseals or any fittings for that manner, just silicone through cooler walls.

Didn't you mention that you had experimented on and off with hydro before? Did you use the 12" PVC?

Looking forward to the pics!
 
NDO

NDO

Member
hellraizer30 said:
Hey CG came across this stuff at the local shop its call mighty wash. Its a freq water that kills by electric energy
That bugs cant grow a imunity to and kills all bugs and ages. If bugs are still a problem look into it, also its safe
For plants
Click to expand...
I came across this stuff too while reading. People seem to like it, seems a little spendy though. But if it does what it says it does and knocks out mites quickly then it's totally worth it IMO. Definitely something to look into. There's a few youtube videos on it if you're going to check it out.
 
hellraizer30

hellraizer30

Rebel From The North
Il look at the you tude but i tried it on fugas knats and a quick spray on a fly killed it dead just havent put it on a plant yet
 
collective gardener

collective gardener

Well-Known Member
rosecitypapa said:
I think the flow would make a difference late in bloom when the roots fill the buckets - like a clogged filter on a vacuum cleaner, it still works but sub-optimally and with stress.

The flow would also effect the water temp by having the main rez in a cooler space/shaded from light/chiller.

For me, when testing the UC design, I liked the visual of the nutes mixing via the undercurrent. I didn't follow through with it though when my diy setup started leaking. Granted I didn't use the uniseals or any fittings for that manner, just silicone through cooler walls.

Didn't you mention that you had experimented on and off with hydro before? Did you use the 12" PVC?

Looking forward to the pics!
Click to expand...
I hear what you are saying about the flow and water temps. I need bigger tubing for the bloom room. I have to make it work with buckets because my plan is to lift the lid and plant root out and take that mass to a waiting bucket in the bloom room. I just need to figure out how to seal a 2" pipe into a 5 gallon bucket. I may elevate the bucket and penetrate the bottom, using a uni-seal.

I've used silicone, too, but with a twist: Use 2 glue couplings and a nipple. Cut the hole the OD of the nipple. Glue one nipple into one coupling. Coat the edges of the couplings with silicone, push the nipple through the hole, and glue the coupling on the other end. The edges of the coupling seat on the bucket with silicone. It helps to make a better seal.

I have used 12" pipe before. I was working for a pipeline contractor and had acces to this very expensive pipe. Basically, in the last 20 years, I've used just about every hydro system you can think of. Most of the time I had no plant limits, growing hundreds of plants SOG. Now, we grow big plants, so the DWC makes the most sense. I was going to stick with soiless, but it's turning out to be too labor intensive. I have another business to run and need to spend less time at the grow. I've had great luck with simple DWC bucket systems, but wanted something with a central res to service the nutrient solution of several buckets at once. When I saw the Undercurrent, I knew that this was the way to go. I'm ok with not moving the buckets. If anyone has a great idea on how to seal a 2" pipe into the side of a bucket, let's hear it. Otherwise, I'll just raise the bucket a few inches and use the uni-seal.
 
collective gardener

collective gardener

Well-Known Member
WAIT! I was looking online to order some uniseals and it looks like they will work in curved aplications. There is a pic of a 2" pipe being uni-sealed into the side of a 4" pipe. If that will work, then a 2" pipe can easily be sealed into the side of a bucket.
 
rosecitypapa

rosecitypapa

Active Member
collective gardener said:
I hear what you are saying about the flow and water temps. I need bigger tubing for the bloom room. I have to make it work with buckets because my plan is to lift the lid and plant root out and take that mass to a waiting bucket in the bloom room. I just need to figure out how to seal a 2" pipe into a 5 gallon bucket. I may elevate the bucket and penetrate the bottom, using a uni-seal.

I've used silicone, too, but with a twist: Use 2 glue couplings and a nipple. Cut the hole the OD of the nipple. Glue one nipple into one coupling. Coat the edges of the couplings with silicone, push the nipple through the hole, and glue the coupling on the other end. The edges of the coupling seat on the bucket with silicone. It helps to make a better seal.

I have used 12" pipe before. I was working for a pipeline contractor and had acces to this very expensive pipe. Basically, in the last 20 years, I've used just about every hydro system you can think of. Most of the time I had no plant limits, growing hundreds of plants SOG. Now, we grow big plants, so the DWC makes the most sense. I was going to stick with soiless, but it's turning out to be too labor intensive. I have another business to run and need to spend less time at the grow. I've had great luck with simple DWC bucket systems, but wanted something with a central res to service the nutrient solution of several buckets at once. When I saw the Undercurrent, I knew that this was the way to go. I'm ok with not moving the buckets. If anyone has a great idea on how to seal a 2" pipe into the side of a bucket, let's hear it. Otherwise, I'll just raise the bucket a few inches and use the uni-seal.
Click to expand...
For some reason, using the glue couplings and silicone always worked for me until I started using the high powered air pumps currently available. Since then the vibration of the volume of air coming through the stones started my leaking issues. To be honest, the uniseals look like the best thing since sliced bread.

We share the similar idea of raising the buckets and putting the fitting in the bottom. My current approach is to use 2" threaded bulkhead fittings. The thinking I had around it was to have the 2" pipe within the bucket as an overflow drain and to have a 2" x 4" bushing atop it. The 2" x 4" ABS bushing is modified so that six tabs within the interior of the bushing are removed and the bottom side of it is has a sheet of ABS glued on it, with the center drilled out to accept the 2" pipe. Six small 1/64" holes are drilled in a radial pattern around the 2" hole and when a 1/2" hole is tapped into the side of the unit, it makes a circular manifold that directs nutrient flow down the sides of the 2" overflow tube (when mounted).

My goal was to create a water flow that resembles a tube torus. Having nutrients move down the center axis, turn outward at the bottom, flow up the sides and then drain toward the center overflow drain. A 1 gal paint strainer bag over the overflow drain keeps the roots from following the water down the drain. Nested buckets with the outer bucket having holes cut in the sides allow a horizontal drain pipe to connect the stacked buckets in series. The outer bucket being used as a support structure for the inner bucket.

Using the uniseal would be a simpler solution but a different approach from an energetic aspect. Since I haven't done a side by side, it could just be my imagination yet I feel that when working with natural laws and processes, we utilize an efficiency and elegance that is divinely inspired. Certainly, indoor growing is a bit of a paradox - using so much technology and money to mimic what nature gives freely.

On a high note, the tube torus is an interesting geometric figure. It turns out all animals are essentially a tube torus (the digestive tract being the tube). From the powerhouse earthworm which is a simple elongated one to us humans which have some appendages and accessories attached to ours, there is something about the design that is universal.
 
collective gardener

collective gardener

Well-Known Member
rosecitypapa said:
For some reason, using the glue couplings and silicone always worked for me until I started using the high powered air pumps currently available. Since then the vibration of the volume of air coming through the stones started my leaking issues. To be honest, the uniseals look like the best thing since sliced bread.

We share the similar idea of raising the buckets and putting the fitting in the bottom. My current approach is to use 2" threaded bulkhead fittings. The thinking I had around it was to have the 2" pipe within the bucket as an overflow drain and to have a 2" x 4" bushing atop it. The 2" x 4" ABS bushing is modified so that six tabs within the interior of the bushing are removed and the bottom side of it is has a sheet of ABS glued on it, with the center drilled out to accept the 2" pipe. Six small 1/64" holes are drilled in a radial pattern around the 2" hole and when a 1/2" hole is tapped into the side of the unit, it makes a circular manifold that directs nutrient flow down the sides of the 2" overflow tube (when mounted).

My goal was to create a water flow that resembles a tube torus. Having nutrients move down the center axis, turn outward at the bottom, flow up the sides and then drain toward the center overflow drain. A 1 gal paint strainer bag over the overflow drain keeps the roots from following the water down the drain. Nested buckets with the outer bucket having holes cut in the sides allow a horizontal drain pipe to connect the stacked buckets in series. The outer bucket being used as a support structure for the inner bucket.

Using the uniseal would be a simpler solution but a different approach from an energetic aspect. Since I haven't done a side by side, it could just be my imagination yet I feel that when working with natural laws and processes, we utilize an efficiency and elegance that is divinely inspired. Certainly, indoor growing is a bit of a paradox - using so much technology and money to mimic what nature gives freely.

On a high note, the tube torus is an interesting geometric figure. It turns out all animals are essentially a tube torus (the digestive tract being the tube). From the powerhouse earthworm which is a simple elongated one to us humans which have some appendages and accessories attached to ours, there is something about the design that is universal.
Click to expand...
I ordered 10 1.5" Uniseals today on Ebay. I'll let you know how they seal in the sides of the bucket.

I plan on using the 1.5" pipe as a drain back to the res. It will be placed as low as possible, to make sure most water is removed at solution changes. I would like the water to be oxygenated upon entry into each bucket. Kind of like a modified aeroponics aystem, but with greatly increased flow. I'm thinking a 1000gph pump minimum feeding 8 buckets. Now I need to find a way to aereate (sp?) the water without using nozzles prone to clogging. I have dropped nozzles before through the top of each unit, making inspection and cleaning easy. I may just have 4 - 1/4" tubes top feeding the base of each plant. I'm thinking that the water running down the Hydrotons and into the solution should add some oxygen. That, combined with the airtstone seems like it would do the trick. Thoughts?

BTW, the paint strainer idea is great. I happen to have a box of em with the airless I purchased to paint this grow op! Good on ya.
 
T

TheLastWood

Well-Known Member
Top feeding with such a large amount of water should definately force oxygen into the rootzone, by displacement. Kind of like how an ebb and flow pushes all the stagnant oxygen up and out and then sucks new rich oxygen into the medium when drained.
 
rosecitypapa

rosecitypapa

Active Member
collective gardener said:
I ordered 10 1.5" Uniseals today on Ebay. I'll let you know how they seal in the sides of the bucket.

I plan on using the 1.5" pipe as a drain back to the res. It will be placed as low as possible, to make sure most water is removed at solution changes. I would like the water to be oxygenated upon entry into each bucket. Kind of like a modified aeroponics aystem, but with greatly increased flow. I'm thinking a 1000gph pump minimum feeding 8 buckets. Now I need to find a way to aereate (sp?) the water without using nozzles prone to clogging. I have dropped nozzles before through the top of each unit, making inspection and cleaning easy. I may just have 4 - 1/4" tubes top feeding the base of each plant. I'm thinking that the water running down the Hydrotons and into the solution should add some oxygen. That, combined with the airtstone seems like it would do the trick. Thoughts?

BTW, the paint strainer idea is great. I happen to have a box of em with the airless I purchased to paint this grow op! Good on ya.
Click to expand...
I like the 1.5" uniseals, didn't think of that. Don't vacuum hoses come in that size? They would be ideal flexible bucket connectors for maximum freedom in plant placement.

As for the aeration, you could make your own clog-free jets. Basically it's a cone shaped void in the structure of the nozzle. For example I use 1/2" PVC caps and build a jig that allows the cap to sit on it and let me drill a 1/16" - 1/8" hole through the cap. Then by taking the drill and making a circular motion much like a spinning top slowing down, one reams out the backside of the hole to make the hole shape like an inverse funnel made of empty space. What makes it clog proof is that any debris that gets in the hole upon clogging and having pressure build up, gets 'blown out' and not 'clogged within' due to the shape of the void. If the void was it's opposite and like a mini funnel going through the width of the pvc, it would prone to clog,...depends on the screen/filter one has on the pump.

I use a small bucket big enough for the pump. I modify the bucket by using a 3" hole saw and making multiple holes, essentially transforming it into a porous structure. Putting all this into a 5gal paint strainer bag is pretty effective.

The 1000 gph pump is a good starting point for eight plants. If you use the 1/4" tube drippers you'll need a bypass on the pump. It's too much volume of water if I understand what you're aiming for.

As for DO, in my research and experience, it's the movement the interface between the main body of water and the air that provides the most DO such as a rushing mountain stream. The next is when the surface is penetrated by dropping water, such as rain, shower, waterfall, etc. A ribbon penetration is better than jets. Bubbles are the least effective. Venturi's are definitely the best bang for the buck. So easy to make DIY!

Come to think of it, to tune your system, having a bypass will be a necessity for you; with roots and all, the 1 1/2" drain might not handle 1000 gph of throughput all the way through bloom without one.
 
collective gardener

collective gardener

Well-Known Member
Planned on the bypass actually helping to oxygenate the main res. I like the idea of a venturi on the water entry points at the bucket. I've made ribbon jets before by making a thin slice length wise in PVC pipe. I used the blade from a Roto Zip tool kit. It was the only thin I could find thin enough. So many options.

I will figure out a way to make the 1.5" pipe work. I was thinking 1.5" out of each bucket, teeing into 2" main line run back to the res. The res will be about 20' away, outside of the grow room. The main warehouse is much cooler. I'm trying to avoid a water chiller. Since I'll end up with 6 seperate systems just in the bloom room, that's alot of $$$ in chillers.

On another note, the inductive light test is just about ready to begin. Plants are rooting and an area has been set asside. Should I do this test with DWC plants or coco? Thoughts?
 
rosecitypapa

rosecitypapa

Active Member
collective gardener said:
Planned on the bypass actually helping to oxygenate the main res. I like the idea of a venturi on the water entry points at the bucket. I've made ribbon jets before by making a thin slice length wise in PVC pipe. I used the blade from a Roto Zip tool kit. It was the only thin I could find thin enough. So many options.

I will figure out a way to make the 1.5" pipe work. I was thinking 1.5" out of each bucket, teeing into 2" main line run back to the res. The res will be about 20' away, outside of the grow room. The main warehouse is much cooler. I'm trying to avoid a water chiller. Since I'll end up with 6 seperate systems just in the bloom room, that's alot of $$$ in chillers.

On another note, the inductive light test is just about ready to begin. Plants are rooting and an area has been set asside. Should I do this test with DWC plants or coco? Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I like the ribbon jet, nice one! I'm gonna make one of those!

Just a 2" main drainline? You are serious about low flow. I hear you about the chillers. My workaround would be to leverage the cooling capacity of the chiller. To do this, I'd have the chiller cool a manifold. The manifold would be an independent circuit with pump that has a heat exchanger in each rez. That and having the buckets insulated and resting on concrete would have you get as much cooling capacity from a single chiller as you can.

With the inductive lights test, I'm an 'and/also' kind of guy. Do you have space limits from testing both?
 
T

TheLastWood

Well-Known Member
I can't wait for the induction test I've been excited about it since you first got the light. We have such deathly hot summers here if they can produce like an hid with the heat of a flourescant ill blow my top and go buy a few!
 
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