If Einstein Were Aborted...

LowTimes

Active Member
I saw this on a commercial promoting pro-life today. ``What would have happened if Einstein had been aborted?`` I laughed at first, but then I really started to think about it. How many potential Einstein's or Steven Hawking's have been aborted thus far? Under that logic one could easily argue ``Well, how many Charles Manson or Adolph Hitler's have been aborted?``

I personally think it's the mother's choice if the fetus be aborted or not. Not only that but I don't believe anyone's intelligence is determined simply by being born, just like I don't believe that people are born homosexual or homicidal. I believe it has to do with their life experiences and how they're raised.

Thoughts?
 

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
Think about who typically has abortions... Not so sure we are losing all that many Einsteins.

/e I take that back. Usually the responsible abort and the irresponsible just have the kid. Either way we have way to many people.
 

LowTimes

Active Member
Exactly my point. For this group of people to use Einstein as an example is laughable. One could even argue the world would have been better off if Einstein were never born, since he invented the Atom Bomb.
 

patlpp

New Member
Think about who typically has abortions... Not so sure we are losing all that many Einsteins.

/e I take that back. Usually the responsible abort and the irresponsible just have the kid. Either way we have way to many people.
Not sure how to take that Methane Man.
 

crackerboy

Active Member
Think about who typically has abortions... Not so sure we are losing all that many Einsteins.

/e I take that back. Usually the responsible abort and the irresponsible just have the kid. Either way we have way to many people.
Are you serious man.The responsible abort and the irresponsible just have the kid? You have got life confused. The responsible have the kid and work a full time job and support their kid. A responsible person takes care of their responsibilities and doesn't kill an innocent child just because they are too lazy to raise their own child. I don't want to hear some crap about young mothers and all that. My mom was 16 when she got pregnant and she still worked full time and got a law degree. I had my daughter at 17 and I also finished collage and have raised and supported them without government assistance. You are what is wrong with this world today.
 

txhazard

Well-Known Member
Ummm if our friend Albert was never born or aborted we never would have never made our nukes and the would not have ended when it did. We would have lost thousands of lives invading japan with all the nasty tricks they had ready for us.

San Francisco would have been hit with a Dirty Bomb, there was a Japanese sub off the coast of cali with German officers on board. They had a Radiation bomb that they were to hit San Francisco with a couple days after we hit japan with our nuke.

Also off the East coast of where the panama canal is, there were a small Japanese submarine fleet waiting to attack at roughly the same time the bomb was dropped. In this fleet was a "super" sub that carried a single plane with a large bomb attached to it. It was suppose to take off and drop the bomb then kamikaze. It wasnt built to land.

So yeah WWII would of had a different ending if goos ole Albert was never born.
 

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
Are you serious man.The responsible abort and the irresponsible just have the kid? You have got life confused. The responsible have the kid and work a full time job and support their kid. A responsible person takes care of their responsibilities and doesn't kill an innocent child just because they are too lazy to raise their own child. I don't want to hear some crap about young mothers and all that. My mom was 16 when she got pregnant and she still worked full time and got a law degree. I had my daughter at 17 and I also finished collage and have raised and supported them without government assistance. You are what is wrong with this world today.
Wow...

I was thinking that irresponsible, low income, uneducated people let themselves get pregnant before they are in a stable position to raise children. Thus I assumed most abortions would be to people following this pattern.

I later looked at statistical information on who has abortions and although many of them do fit the above description it is amazing how many abortions are actually by educated wealthier women who realize that it would be irresponsible to have a child due to their current situation. It turns out that most irresponsible, low income, uneducated people that get pregnant keep their children even though they are not financially stable nor have the time to properly raise them.

I neither stated a pro or against statement towards abortion.

Your mother sounds like an amazing person but do you think she is the norm? Do most 16 year old mothers work full time to support their family and additionally get a law degree? Nope, sorry, she's better than most, be proud of her and likewise be proud of yourself. But again that is not the norm.

And way to take a random comment personally. Smoke a bowl and look at things a bit more lightheartedly.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Not only that but I don't believe anyone's intelligence is determined simply by being born, just like I don't believe that people are born homosexual or homicidal. I believe it has to do with their life experiences and how they're raised.

Thoughts?
If you think intellectual capacity is not influenced by genetics, and that homosexuality is a choice brought on by life's experiences, then you are ill-informed and have not given the subject proper critical thought.
 

plantvision

Active Member
All this dialouge.... everybody judging everybody else.
It is not anybodys business to decide how somebody else is to live there life.
Furthermore, if somebody believes something let them believe it.
It is okay to tell how you feel, but you don't have to tell them they are wrong.
My mantra I try to live my life by is "what fruit comes from what I am doing".

Before somebody nails me, I will be the first to say I also fall short of what I am saying.
But lately it seems more of the norm on here.
Peace...........
 

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
I personally think it's the mother's choice if the fetus be aborted or not. Not only that but I don't believe anyone's intelligence is determined simply by being born, just like I don't believe that people are born homosexual or homicidal. I believe it has to do with their life experiences and how they're raised.

Thoughts?
I have four older straight brothers. We were all raised the same. I was in sports and am now a triathlete. I grew up working on a farm. Just the same as my brothers. My brothers have always been very supportive and loving as have my parents. Nothing in my life would indicate that I was any different than my brothers. Yet, I'm gay and was raised Mormon to boot.

Thoughts?
 

MixedMelodyMindBender

Active Member
Population Control is an invention of the short minded. Clever but Clueless---Jack Johnson

disenchanting to believe only the women has a right to the sperm/egg embryo. We may not know if it took one or two hundred to make our species, but we are positive it takes two humans of opposite gender to create life.

** Righteousness is not located in a book of man made laws. We are all temporary guest. And if your causing no harm than your alright with me :)
 

LowTimes

Active Member
I have four older straight brothers. We were all raised the same. I was in sports and am now a triathlete. I grew up working on a farm. Just the same as my brothers. My brothers have always been very supportive and loving as have my parents. Nothing in my life would indicate that I was any different than my brothers. Yet, I'm gay and was raised Mormon to boot.

Thoughts?
I'm not a scientist and do not claim to be educated in genetics. Do YOU believe that you were born a homosexual?
 

LowTimes

Active Member
If you think intellectual capacity is not influenced by genetics, and that homosexuality is a choice brought on by life's experiences, then you are ill-informed and have not given the subject proper critical thought.
When I was younger a couple lived down the street from me. This man and this woman both had mild forms of downs syndrome. They gave birth to a baby boy that would not only be free of downs, but went on to college to become a marine biologist.

Do I think you're wrong? No, not at all. I think you're very much so correct and that when I typed this thread I should have made it more clear that I believe hereditary traits are strong influences in the way a person would be. But, how do you explain this couple giving birth to a non-mentally handicapped marine biologist? o_o Would you consider this an anomaly?
 

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
I'm not a scientist and do not claim to be educated in genetics.
Yet you stated that you believe people aren't born "that way" and that it is environmental rather than genetic. According to you, that way I was raised made me gay. I just explained that out of 5 boys raised the exact same way only one ends up being gay. How does that support your "belief"?
 

Xrtnfx

Active Member
When I was younger a couple lived down the street from me. This man and this woman both had mild forms of downs syndrome. They gave birth to a baby boy that would not only be free of downs, but went on to college to become a marine biologist.

Do I think you're wrong? No, not at all. I think you're very much so correct and that when I typed this thread I should have made it more clear that I believe hereditary traits are strong influences in the way a person would be. But, how do you explain this couple giving birth to a non-mentally handicapped marine biologist? o_o Would you consider this an anomaly?
"Most cases of Down syndrome are not inherited. When the condition is caused by trisomy 21, the chromosomal abnormality occurs as a random event during the formation of reproductive cells. The abnormality usually occurs in egg cells, but it occasionally occurs in sperm cells."

only one type of down syndrome is inherited.

"Translocation Down syndrome can be inherited. An unaffected person can carry a rearrangement of genetic material between chromosome 21 and another chromosome. This rearrangement is called a balanced translocation because there is no extra material from chromosome 21. Although they do not have signs of Down syndrome, people who carry this type of balanced translocation are at an increased risk of having children with the condition."

but it doesn't fit your case.
Here is a link that provides more information if you are interested
http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/down-syndrome
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
When I was younger a couple lived down the street from me. This man and this woman both had mild forms of downs syndrome. They gave birth to a baby boy that would not only be free of downs, but went on to college to become a marine biologist.

Do I think you're wrong? No, not at all. I think you're very much so correct and that when I typed this thread I should have made it more clear that I believe hereditary traits are strong influences in the way a person would be. But, how do you explain this couple giving birth to a non-mentally handicapped marine biologist? o_o Would you consider this an anomaly?
Down syndrome is well understood error of genetic expression. To me, your example further indicates that genetics play a big part in overall intellectual capacity. (bad genes causing decreased intelligence) It would seem counter intuitive that two bad expressions of genetic information could combine to make a superior one, but it just means that genetics are very complicated and subject to many factors. There is not a clear dichotomy between nurture and nature when it comes to intelligence.

When it comes to sexual orientation, you have your own experiences to refer to. Think back to a time when you had no sexual preference, can you remember that? Do you remember entering puberty and developing sexual desires? At what point did you make a clear decision between the sexes? Sexual orientation is a huge part of who you are and heavily influences how you live your life, shouldn't you remember such an important event as when you decided yours? Was there certain events that took place that influenced your fundamental desire between the sexes?

Or was more like you just seemed to be drawn to one sex over the other without having to back it up with reason and rhyme? Did your sexual preference simply solidify as you developed similar to the way you developed tastes for certain foods? Was there any point in your life when you could have, through sheer willpower, forced yourself to be attracted to the same sex? You could force yourself to try it, go through with the action, but could you force yourself to enjoy it? Could you make yourself desire it?

Do you think you are atypical in your sexual development? Doesn't it stand to reason that this is the way all humans develop a sexual preference? Consider statistics that say the majority of young boys who are molested by men grow up to develop a heterosexual preference. In fact, the number of homosexual boys we find among those abused is about the same you would expect to find in any random group of people. It's true that events can influence attitude, approach, and willingness to experiment, but it would seem that, when correctly weighing evidence, there is very little scientific support for the idea that fundamental sexual preference is influenced by life's experiences.
 

Dominathan

Well-Known Member
We're overpopulated way too much already. In a hundred years, abortions will be mandatory and they'll wonder how we could be so stupid as to outlaw them.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
We're overpopulated way too much already. In a hundred years, abortions will be mandatory and they'll wonder how we could be so stupid as to outlaw them.
You think that in 100 years our means of birth control will not have evolved further than abortion? You think that after a century's time no humans will have an ethical problem with ending potential life? Everyone will decide to agree on pro-choice and support it to the point of being mandatory all while laughing at the idea of pro-life? How many abortions are performed today for the sole reason of overpopulation?

What criteria do you observe that says we are currently over populated? Are you starving? Have you had to sacrifice essential resources for the sake of others? How would your life improve if there were a billion less people? Are there any friends or family you would be willing to sacrifice in the name of overpopulation? How about yourself for starters?
 

MixedMelodyMindBender

Active Member
We're overpopulated way too much already. In a hundred years, abortions will be mandatory and they'll wonder how we could be so stupid as to outlaw them.
With all due respect, there is nothing stupid in giving life over death. The day abortions are mandatory is the day we take ourselves away from the classification of Homo Sapiens or "wise men".

Education is the answer, always has been and always will be. I really believe the words "population control is for the short minded" rings loudest.
 
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