Vote for Ron Paul-----Great idea

Dan Kone said:
He has made a career on firing people. That troubles me. He's a free trade guy, similar to Clinton when it comes to international trade. I hate that. Free trade = outsourcing jobs to third world countries so CEO's can profit. It's the problem IMO.

On the other hand he was a pretty decent governor. It's difficult to say. I would definitely hear him out. It kind of depends on which Romney we'd get. I'll take the guy who was governor over Obama easily, but this new ultra-conservative guy I'm not a big fan of. Of course the conservative talk could be him just playing to his base and he could do a 180 in a general election and become very moderate.

So yeah, hard to figure him out. I'd have to see him run in the general election before I made my mind up about him. The rest of the republican field is a cast of fairly transparent far right mouthbreathers. Romney, who knows. I'd give him a fair chance to make his case though. But if he starts talking about more tax cuts to the rich I'll throw stuff at the tv.
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Romney is also the only candidate I am considering other than Obama for my 2012 vote. It's not likely, but it really depends on if Obama grows some damn balls.
 
mame said:
Romney is also the only candidate I am considering other than Obama for my 2012 vote. It's not likely, but it really depends on if Obama grows some damn balls.
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Yea he should totally grow some balls and do something like headup the UN or attack libiya without congress oh wait...he already did that...your seriously gunna vote for Obama the criminal, liar, and traitor again? He should be impeached.
 
reminds me of this when people say they are gunna vote for obama

[video=youtube;K7INABbOnLI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7INABbOnLI[/video]
 
deprave said:
Yea he should totally grow some balls and do something like headup the UN or attack libiya without congress oh wait...he already did that...your seriously gunna vote for Obama the criminal, liar, and traitor again? He should be impeached.
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wow.

1) I'm willing to bet that it doesn't really matter who was president, looking at U.S. history - any president would've done at least as much as obama did in Libya.

2)Criminal? Traitor? If you could prove these accusations maybe he should be impeached... The thing is, you cant. Also, how many times has he lied? can you show me? He has changed positions before, but that's not a lie.

At least you didn't try to say he was born in Kenya. :wink:

edit: I'm at work so I can't watch the video, but i'll be able to reply to it in ~5 hours.
 
Obviously you need to read up on libiya a bit....first off he goes to war when the UN barks without congress something that has never been done in history(traitor), second off he authorized CIA to assist the rebels in libiya before the war(which are for the most part al-qaida fighters btw) which breaks the UN treaty clause of intervention(criminal), Lies? well there is thousands of them but Ill start you off with one of them real quick to get us warmed up if we are gunna discuss obama lies:

Little video I put togather a while back illustrating just one obama lie:
[video=youtube;JI4-lad49BA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI4-lad49BA[/video]
 
oh damn you cant watch videos right now - its about how governments are trying to take away union collective bargaining rights and it has a quote from obama where he says "and understand this, if american workers are being denied their right to organize and collectively bargain while I am in the white house, Ill put on a comphortable pair of shoes, and ill walk on that picket line because workers need to know someone is standing in their court" and this is exactly what is happening and obama hasn't done or said he will do anything.
 
Dan Kone said:
He has made a career on firing people. That troubles me. He's a free trade guy, similar to Clinton when it comes to international trade. I hate that. Free trade = outsourcing jobs to third world countries so CEO's can profit. It's the problem IMO.

On the other hand he was a pretty decent governor. It's difficult to say. I would definitely hear him out. It kind of depends on which Romney we'd get. I'll take the guy who was governor over Obama easily, but this new ultra-conservative guy I'm not a big fan of. Of course the conservative talk could be him just playing to his base and he could do a 180 in a general election and become very moderate.

So yeah, hard to figure him out. I'd have to see him run in the general election before I made my mind up about him. The rest of the republican field is a cast of fairly transparent far right mouthbreathers. Romney, who knows. I'd give him a fair chance to make his case though. But if he starts talking about more tax cuts to the rich I'll throw stuff at the tv.
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throw stuff at the tv, lol.

and you are right, it does depend on which romney we get. just looking over his past, he seems to have gone back and forth on a lot of the issues that get me to vote for someone.

in any case, given the rest of the field right now, he is the one i would least mind seeing secure his party's nomination.
 
Now I'm not saying I support the U.S. having anything to do with Libya, but to call Obama a criminal for his actions there just isn't accurate. The War powers act, made into law over President Nixon's veto in 1973, contains a provision that allows a President to use war powers for up to 60 days as long as they inform congress in writing within 48 hours of doing so. The purpose of the law was to restrict the executive branches power to go to war - including congress in on the action (congress also holds the government purse... so they ultimately decide funding for war). The purpose of the provision within the law was to allow for flexibility to respond to attack - as well as other emergencies.

Libya was deemed an emergency by the Obama administration. Beohner recieved the letter the next day. It's all legal.

Whether or not it was the right thing to do is another story but he is not a traitor for his actions.

edit: have you ever read the George Bush book? He authorized so much shit behind the scenes you'd be niave to think that they(presidents) dont all do it. They get a breifing on most of the secret shit the government is doing and authorize all kinds of illegal shit... To complain about some CIA agents is just pointless.

edit edit: Obama did say something about recent collective bargaining issues but he has no power over Walker... He can't stop him. You want him to picket? Seriously? I'm sure you, I and Mr. Obama all can realize how much of a waste of the POTUS's time that would be - and by extension a waste of taxpayer dollars. The only thing he'd succeed at would be that Fox News would have an easier time criticizing him for that than they did criticizing him for "butting in" Wisconsin's dispute.
 
mame said:
Now I'm not saying I support the U.S. having anything to do with Libya, but to call Obama a criminal for his actions there just isn't accurate. The War powers act, made into law over President Nixon's veto in 1973, contains a provision that allows a President to use war powers for up to 60 days as long as they inform congress in writing within 48 hours of doing so. The purpose of the law was to restrict the executive branches power to go to war - including congress in on the action (congress also holds the government purse... so they ultimately decide funding for war). The purpose of the provision within the law was to allow for flexibility to respond to attack - as well as other emergencies.

Libya was deemed an emergency by the Obama administration. Beohner recieved the letter the next day. It's all legal.

Whether or not it was the right thing to do is another story but he is not a traitor for his actions.

edit: have you ever read the George Bush book? He authorized so much shit behind the scenes you'd be niave to think that they(presidents) dont all do it. They get a breifing on most of the secret shit the government is doing and authorize all kinds of illegal shit... To complain about some CIA agents is just pointless.
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Well as long as our government is doing illegal things, then I guess its alright to go ahead and kill people. Great argument.
 
NoDrama said:
Well as long as our government is doing illegal things, then I guess its alright to go ahead and kill people. Great argument.
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I never said it was alright but it's hardly an issue that can be solved by voting some other guy in. It's a weak argument.. That's my point.
 
mame said:
Now I'm not saying I support the U.S. having anything to do with Libya, but to call Obama a criminal for his actions there just isn't accurate. The War powers act, made into law over President Nixon's veto in 1973, contains a provision that allows a President to use war powers for up to 60 days as long as they inform congress in writing within 48 hours of doing so. The purpose of the law was to restrict the executive branches power to go to war - including congress in on the action (congress also holds the government purse... so they ultimately decide funding for war). The purpose of the provision within the law was to allow for flexibility to respond to attack - as well as other emergencies.

Libya was deemed an emergency by the Obama administration. Beohner recieved the letter the next day. It's all legal.

Whether or not it was the right thing to do is another story but he is not a traitor for his actions.

edit: have you ever read the George Bush book? He authorized so much shit behind the scenes you'd be niave to think that they(presidents) dont all do it. They get a breifing on most of the secret shit the government is doing and authorize all kinds of illegal shit... To complain about some CIA agents is just pointless.
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Your right about that but you misunderstood me about one thing or I typed it wrong one or the other: The crime is not going to war, it has to do the UN Security council resolution(1973) as well as the mandate with NATO and the arab league that the coalition forces ARE NOT to get directly involved: they assist in protecting civilians, enforce no-fly zone, arms embargos from air and sea, but they are not to get directly involved and the beef is that its on record Obama authorizing the CIA to assist the rebels and this was BEFORE the no-fly zone. I am not sure what else the congressional lawyers are charging him with but they are currently trying to impeach him and most of it has to do with libiya.
 
and why are you okay with them deeming it an emergency and not consulting congress, this has never happened before in history?

You want them to go ahead do what ever the hell they want? The Fact is Libiya was hardly an emergency - it was sensationalized and over-dramatized and likely included false flag attacks by our own CIA. Why should we give a shit about Libiya anyway? Oh wait the Oil, Oh wait he owes us 37 billion dollars, Oh Wait we been wanting to kill him since the 80's, o wait we need to prop up our own dictator, o wait he has his own central bank, o wait libiya has good relations with much of africa and is owed favors, owe wait its a critical strategic part of africa.
 
deprave said:
Your right about that but you misunderstood me about one thing or I typed it wrong one or the other: The crime is not going to war, it has to do the UN Security council resolution(1973) as well as the mandate with NATO and the arab league that the coalition forces ARE NOT to get directly involved: they assist in protecting civilians, enforce no-fly zone, arms embargos from air and sea, but they are not to get directly involved and the beef is that its on record Obama authorizing the CIA to assist the rebels and this was BEFORE the no-fly zone. I am not sure what else the congressional lawyers are charging him with but they are currently trying to impeach him and most of it has to do with libiya.
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I can't really defend that, honestly. Again, I'm sure any President would have done the same. I doubt there is even a remote chance he'll be impeached. None of 'em do. Bush directly defied the Geneva convention by authorizing waterboarding and he will never be charged with any war crimes...

again, my position is not pro libya war at all. I'm just... indifferent I guess. When it comes to war, historically, a President will figure out a way to do it.

this article contains a bunch of history on the subject.
 
If Libiya is such an emergency what about ruwanda, somalia, sudan, congo, south africa, liberia, and the dozens of other nations with humanitarian crisis far worse than libiya - oh wait theres no money involved.
 
mame said:
I can't really defend that, honestly. Again, I'm sure any President would have done the same. I doubt there is even a remote chance he'll be impeached. None of 'em do. Bush directly defied the Geneva convention by authorizing waterboarding and he will never be charged with any war crimes...

again, my position is not pro libya war at all. I'm just... indifferent I guess. When it comes to war, historically, a President will figure out a way to do it.

this article contains a bunch of history on the subject.
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ah so your attitude is your indifferent twoard blood money and plunder aka war, I guess yer voting for the right guy then if you don't have anything against more murder and blood money.
 
deprave said:
ah so your attitude is your indifferent twoard blood money and plunder aka war, I guess yer voting for the right guy then if you don't have anything against more murder and blood money.
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Listen, my point this entire time has been the regardless of who you vote for they would all do the same. So, for me to base my vote off of this is a waste of time. That's all I'm saying.
 
Your probably right but Ron Paul would likely try to take all of our troops home and stop the imperialism as he has stated and voted many times for years and years.

The reason I am voting for Ron Paul if he runs is to:

1) END THE FED

2) PROTECT OUR CONSTITUTION, OUR FREEDOMS AND LIBERTIES (which all other candidates have attacked or not defended at one time or another and they continue to do so)

3) END THE WARS

4) Marijuana
 
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