Vote for Ron Paul-----Great idea

Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Got any proof that this is what would happen? If not then its just a poorly thought out opinion
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It's not a poorly thought out opinion at all. If you let corporations completely off the chain and "let the free market sort it out", that would be a disaster. No, I can not prove that because no industrialized nation is stupid enough to try it so there is no sample size. But it's been proven over and over again that if there is any loophole that allows people to defraud the American public through corporations they take it.

I guess Enron, worldcom, Madoff, Goldman Sachs, etc are the evidence. If they can steal all our money, they will. That much is proven. Why anyone would think that if you took away all the rules that prevent or at least slow down their scams, they would all of a sudden be well behaved is beyond me.

Do you have any proof or evidence that it would turn out any other way?

If free markets = Fraud, controlled markets = unicorns shitting out skittles while jumping over fluffy clouds all the while rainbows pour out of its ass during a Marshmallow storm. Until the Fed is gone, they will be the ones controlling the destiny of this countries economic future not the state or the politicians or the markets, free or otherwise.
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No, what I said makes sense, what you said does not. If you take away the rules preventing them from ripping us off, they will. Where do you get the insane idea that corporations wouldn't defraud the public if we let them?

Controlled markets are the world standard, not some unicorn shit. Unlike "the free market", controlled markets exist. So if you want to compare anything to unicorns, compare it to the thing that doesn't actually exist, the free market.

I don't think that, I know that. None of this could have ever happened before we started deregulating financial markets. ]
If you know if for sure why not provide examples or proof?
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Fair enough. The commodities futures modernization act deregulated derivatives, directly allowing investment bankers to defraud the public. The repeal of the great depression regulation Glass-Steagall allowed for investment banks, mortgage banks, commercial banks, insurance companies, etc to all merge into "too big to fail" financial conglomerates which led to the bailouts everyone hates so much.

here are regulations against fraud, yet we still have fraud, there are laws against ponzi schemes, yet we still have ponzi schemes.
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And you think by getting rid of those laws we will have less fraud? lol. GTFO

Liberty and freedom are the cause of all the countries ills eh?
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No Ernest :) , liberty didn't cause the economy to crash, financial deregulation did. Come on now, you can do better than that cheap meaningless rhetoric. This is where I stop considering anything else you have to say in your post. Very hackish.
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
beardo said:
Rep to anyone who knows how I can do this.
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I don't know, but he's going to announce tonight I think. He should have an updated website with contact info immediately after.

As someone who's worked on political campaigns before, some advice. Call and volunteer IMMEDIATELY when the contact info is up. Those who volunteer first, get first crack at being on the paid national staff or getting promoted to those positions. I know a few people who are now working in the whitehouse in positions with real authority as well as congressional staffers just because they did this. And when you show up, look nice and be a team player.
 
C

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Dan Kone said:
Read the parts where he talks about his advocacy for complete financial deregulation. He skips the part where the Enron's, Madoff's, and Goldman Sachs of the world rob us blind, the result being all our wealth is redistributed to the top 1%.

Paul is a hack. A very convincing one on certain subjects, but he's still a hack. Everything he says sounds great but none of it holds up to even the most basic scrutiny. He's 100% fortune cookie wisdom. He's been surrounded by people who agree with him for so long that he doesn't consider the negative consequences of what he's proposing because there is no one around him to ask the hard questions.

Ever see Ron Paul answer a question about the negative effects of his economic plans? I've never heard him give an answer beyond "the free market will sort itself out". He will never elaborate on how, because that how includes turning America into a third world country sweatshops and all.
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Ron Paul believes people should be able to make their own decisions. Whether it is good for them or not. Any ideal taken too far becomes something horrible. He is generally right on with what he says.

America is already heading towards becoming a 3rd world country. Maybe you missed the memo.

The things Ron Paul supports are his goals. You can't just dump everything and go right to what he wants. You have to start somewhere though. I think refusing to raise the debt ceiling and working towards cutting what we don't need is a very important step towards righting our country. You really don't think any of the people in congress ask Ron Paul the hard questions? What do you think they talk about?
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Carthoris said:
Ron Paul believes people should be able to make their own decisions. Whether it is good for them or not. Any ideal taken too far becomes something horrible. He is generally right on with what he says.
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People making their own decisions is fine, right up until the point where those decisions effect everyone else. When investment banks decide they want to defraud the public, I object to that. Not because I hate freedom or don't like people making their own decisions, I just don't believe people always have the right to make decisions that screw everyone else over.

Ron Paul is an absolutist. Freedom is awesome up until that freedom starts screwing over everyone else. Ron Paul doesn't make such distinctions.

America is already heading towards becoming a 3rd world country. Maybe you missed the memo.
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I aware. I just don't know that putting in an express lane to the third world is a brilliant idea.

I think refusing to raise the debt ceiling and working towards cutting what we don't need is a very important step towards righting our country.
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And just hope that doesn't cause a great depression? I'll pass.

You really don't think any of the people in congress ask Ron Paul the hard questions? What do you think they talk about?
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If there are people like that, I never hear it. When ever I see Ron Paul talk to conservatives he talks about the free market. When he talks to liberals he talks about legalization and ending the wars. It's a neat way of avoiding scrutiny.
 
beardo

beardo

Well-Known Member
Dan Kone said:
I don't know, but he's going to announce tonight I think. He should have an updated website with contact info immediately after.

As someone who's worked on political campaigns before, some advice. Call and volunteer IMMEDIATELY when the contact info is up. Those who volunteer first, get first crack at being on the paid national staff or getting promoted to those positions. I know a few people who are now working in the whitehouse in positions with real authority as well as congressional staffers just because they did this. And when you show up, look nice and be a team player.
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Do you know what web site?
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
beardo said:
Do you know what web site?
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i can't tell you what website, sorry.

but be prepared to travel. A LOT.

i had a friend working for hillary clinton in '08. she got to see the west for the first time when she drove out to portland to try to help hillary pull it out.

when she showed up at our house, she was blown away by the difference between the east and west. not too often that you drive 40 miles on the east coast and see NOTHING.
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
i had a friend working for hillary clinton in '08. she got to see the west for the first time when she drove out to portland to try to help hillary pull it out
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:fire:

I was in Portland then too, kicking your friend's campaigns ass :)

The Clinton campaign was sooo butthurt at that point. Some of them even showed up to protest Obama events. Of course those same people tried to crash the after party when Obama won.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Dan Kone said:
:fire:

I was in Portland then too, kicking your friend's campaigns ass :)

The Clinton campaign was sooo butthurt at that point. Some of them even showed up to protest Obama events. Of course those same people tried to crash the after party when Obama won.
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ha!

she and many others swore not to help obama, but ultimately relented.

i kept telling her i was voting for O in the primary just to spite her, as she told my wife to break up with me when we were first dating because i was a bad influence.

but as a registered independent, i could not vote in the primary. so she won that one.

but i got the last laugh when she was a bridesmaid at our wedding :)
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
ha!

she and many others swore not to help obama, but ultimately relented.

i kept telling her i was voting for O in the primary just to spite her, as she told my wife to break up with me when we were first dating because i was a bad influence.

but as a registered independent, i could not vote in the primary. so she won that one.

but i got the last laugh when she was a bridesmaid at our wedding :)
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It got CRAZY competitive for a while. The two campaigns truly didn't like each other from the top down. We acted really fake polite to them (in a very condescending way like they were misbehaving children), and they were really bitter that Hillary was losing momentum when "it was her turn". They hated us, bad. It was great.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Dan Kone said:
It got CRAZY competitive for a while. The two campaigns truly didn't like each other from the top down. We acted really fake polite to them (in a very condescending way like they were misbehaving children), and they were really bitter that Hillary was losing momentum when "it was her turn". They hated us, bad. It was great.
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it was kinda weird how much she got into it.

i mean, she is already crazy political and very blunt and direct. but those qualities were amplified so much when she did that gig for hillary.

i sat back as an interested observer during the process, as i liked either candidate just about equally.
 
C

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
Dan Kone said:
It's not a poorly thought out opinion at all. If you let corporations completely off the chain and "let the free market sort it out", that would be a disaster. No, I can not prove that because no industrialized nation is stupid enough to try it so there is no sample size. But it's been proven over and over again that if there is any loophole that allows people to defraud the American public through corporations they take it.

I guess Enron, worldcom, Madoff, Goldman Sachs, etc are the evidence. If they can steal all our money, they will. That much is proven. Why anyone would think that if you took away all the rules that prevent or at least slow down their scams, they would all of a sudden be well behaved is beyond me.

Do you have any proof or evidence that it would turn out any other way?



No, what I said makes sense, what you said does not. If you take away the rules preventing them from ripping us off, they will. Where do you get the insane idea that corporations wouldn't defraud the public if we let them?

Controlled markets are the world standard, not some unicorn shit. Unlike "the free market", controlled markets exist. So if you want to compare anything to unicorns, compare it to the thing that doesn't actually exist, the free market.



Fair enough. The commodities futures modernization act deregulated derivatives, directly allowing investment bankers to defraud the public. The repeal of the great depression regulation Glass-Steagall allowed for investment banks, mortgage banks, commercial banks, insurance companies, etc to all merge into "too big to fail" financial conglomerates which led to the bailouts everyone hates so much.



And you think by getting rid of those laws we will have less fraud? lol. GTFO



No Ernest :) , liberty didn't cause the economy to crash, financial deregulation did. Come on now, you can do better than that cheap meaningless rhetoric. This is where I stop considering anything else you have to say in your post. Very hackish.
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Something you said made me think of the Roman aqueducts and the stealing of water from them. I just woke up though lol.

A big part of the reason there are loopholes is because there are so many rules that have apparently not real purpose. Less regulation that is more effective would make the country run better. Look at our tax code. Is it really necessary to have 17,000 pages of rules about taxes? Wouldn't it be more effective to have 1 page? Are all the rebates and tax loopholes that the government purposely made really necessary? Would we be doing this complicated financial BS with sub prime lending if there weren't so many rules? I think it was a direct result of forcing people to find creative ways to defraud the system.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I think what some of you have failed to realize is that fraud in the derivatives market is very well enforced, Fraud is still illegal. just because there are no specific regulations on Derivatives ( Which BTW are 1.24 QUADRILLION in size not 530 T) you people think they are untouchable, well it doesn't really matter, we cannot, will not, do not prosecute TBTF banks, EVER!! They can do whatever they please, whether it is legal, illegal, regulated or unregulated, why can't you people see this? Theya re allowed to openly perpetrate illegal fraud and are never punished, they are simply allowed to do whatever they please. So it matters not if anything is regulated, the banks will ignore all of it anyway and they will get away with it every time.

Mame I didn't see you had found the quote, yes it was JP Morgan.
 
mame

mame

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Mame I didn't see you had found the quote, yes it was JP Morgan.
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You were driving me crazy when you didn't acknowledge it in my first post. I seriously went through several pages of google and read like half of that report trying to figure out if there was something I was missing.

lol, ah well. The report was actually pretty interesting.
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
it was kinda weird how much she got into it.

i mean, she is already crazy political and very blunt and direct. but those qualities were amplified so much when she did that gig for hillary.

i sat back as an interested observer during the process, as i liked either candidate just about equally.
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Too bad it turned out all the criticism coming out of their campaign about Obama all turned out to be correct. lol. ooops. Can I get do overs?

I started out with the Edwards campaign, I only went to Obama when he dropped out. I'm a huge Edwards fan.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
mame said:
You were driving me crazy when you didn't acknowledge it in my first post. I seriously went through several pages of google and read like half of that report trying to figure out if there was something I was missing.

lol, ah well. The report was actually pretty interesting.
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i bet you learned a few things too eh? Sorry I didn't see your post earlier, LOL it happens.
 
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