Death To Mubarak!
- Thread starter tardis
- Start date
zem
Well-Known Member
that's because he cut all phone and cell connections, closed all ports and banned all media and cut the internet. there are already at least 1000 deaths in 7 days. only footage coming out is from amateur cell phone cams. it's the fucking stone age there
sputniknz
Active Member
Please guys.... dont take offence to this post, i could be wrong but, you never know.... im gonna throw a hypothetical out in the air and see what happens?
Who is behind the turmoil in Libya?.... The International Corporatocracy, i think the people have been lead into it.... Gaddafi has to go, he is a bad man no doubt, i think the corporatocracy is seizing an oppurtunity brought about by the unstability spreading from egypt to dismount gaddafi and put there own pawn in,
How?... Paid mercenaries
Why?... Because Gaddafi is not pro-privatisation or pro-foreign-manipulation
These are just ideas guys, but i smell something fishy going on in libya, not all is as it seems.....If im right, what is happening there is not the result of subversive goverment action, i think this one could be lead by the private sector tyrants that small 1% of the world population that runs the rest of the 99%.
Im not saying gaddafi isnt a prick who shouldn't be removed, im not saying the people arent right in taking action, im not saying the U.S. goverment is pulling the strings (atleast not yet, wouldn't surprise me though - i just cant see the purpose for them at the moment)
... what im saying is be very very very careful of who ever it is that replaces him..... ill say it again.... something stinks in libya!
Who is behind the turmoil in Libya?.... The International Corporatocracy, i think the people have been lead into it.... Gaddafi has to go, he is a bad man no doubt, i think the corporatocracy is seizing an oppurtunity brought about by the unstability spreading from egypt to dismount gaddafi and put there own pawn in,
How?... Paid mercenaries
Why?... Because Gaddafi is not pro-privatisation or pro-foreign-manipulation
These are just ideas guys, but i smell something fishy going on in libya, not all is as it seems.....If im right, what is happening there is not the result of subversive goverment action, i think this one could be lead by the private sector tyrants that small 1% of the world population that runs the rest of the 99%.
Im not saying gaddafi isnt a prick who shouldn't be removed, im not saying the people arent right in taking action, im not saying the U.S. goverment is pulling the strings (atleast not yet, wouldn't surprise me though - i just cant see the purpose for them at the moment)
... what im saying is be very very very careful of who ever it is that replaces him..... ill say it again.... something stinks in libya!
Indeed, although despite the attempt at a media blackout there is still loads of information leaking out. It's a complete shitstorm over there, and seems much worse than what took place in Egypt, Tunisia and other places.
Some "action" here for you beardo: http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-02-22/libya-protests-shocking-photos-and-video/
sputniknz
Active Member
you know when you are watching the news and you see crowds of people protesting regimes, but in reality what your seeing is about 20+ people jumping up and down with signs that look like they were all written with the same pen and a couple of random dudes in the middle with black shades and covered faces egging them on... well today i saw that..... like i said something stinky in libya!!!
zem
Well-Known Member
huh? "20+ people"??? i guess you didn't watch the egypt and tunisia events. hell in egypt it was like a human tsunami like 2 millions in cairo alone. in libya they're not that numerous due to the fact that there are massacres happening, the general public are afraid to protest and what you're seeing are the suicidal revolutionaries, basically people who are willing to sacrifice their lives, the others are safe at home but they surely don't like gaddafi. whatever happens i bet it will be for the better, it cannot get any worse than the clown gaddafi no fukin way lol
sputniknz
Active Member
chill zem.... take a deep breath.
I know about egypt too, i know what is being "said" about libya also..... *LISTEN CAREFULLY*... im not saying that there arent masses of people demonstrating, im just saying yesterday on the news here in NZ, via sky tv on the al jazeera network news i saw a clip that looked like it was staged...
for example.... the picture below is something i would beleive, simply too many people for it to be fake...
if i could post what i saw i would, i can only describe it as...
20+ people crowded around to fill the veiw of the camera, kids holding signs in the air... but looking like they couldnt care less.... a few men standing in the middle, faces covered with cloth, black shades over the eyes.... and you could see they were trying to encourage the people around them to be enthusiastic, but if i looked closer... i saw that behind this crowd was an empty street... empty!.... consider this... iranian revolution, dec 30... the regime gives out food + juice to attract masses of people to a demonstration that they didnt support.
[video=youtube;tT-d4H4O9Gc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT-d4H4O9Gc[/video]
Its easy to pay a bunch of people to act infront of a camera.....
my point still is, something stinks in libya!!!!
I know about egypt too, i know what is being "said" about libya also..... *LISTEN CAREFULLY*... im not saying that there arent masses of people demonstrating, im just saying yesterday on the news here in NZ, via sky tv on the al jazeera network news i saw a clip that looked like it was staged...
for example.... the picture below is something i would beleive, simply too many people for it to be fake...
if i could post what i saw i would, i can only describe it as...
20+ people crowded around to fill the veiw of the camera, kids holding signs in the air... but looking like they couldnt care less.... a few men standing in the middle, faces covered with cloth, black shades over the eyes.... and you could see they were trying to encourage the people around them to be enthusiastic, but if i looked closer... i saw that behind this crowd was an empty street... empty!.... consider this... iranian revolution, dec 30... the regime gives out food + juice to attract masses of people to a demonstration that they didnt support.
[video=youtube;tT-d4H4O9Gc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT-d4H4O9Gc[/video]
Its easy to pay a bunch of people to act infront of a camera.....
my point still is, something stinks in libya!!!!
zem
Well-Known Member
sput, i'm relaxed 
just sharing what i'm seeing too. don't think of these people as hungry animals, they don't have a central demonstration in lybia, it's basically groups of people here and there gathering in scattered areas all round the country revolting kicking police out facing bullets with sticks and stones. if you believe that iranian revolution was the way you describe it, you're terribly mistaken. it took like a whole year for that revolution to finish, you're not saying that the crowds were being fed for that long... even until today, the people in iran gather in millions to support the revolution. if you saw one fishy scene on tv then try and see more scenes, it's a bloody revolution all over the place, most fractions of the army split, the UN ambassador of lybia split so did many of the lybian ambassadors all round the world. it looks like a clear revolution, only more bloody than what happened in egypt and tunisia.
BTW i saw gaddafi speech yesterday in tripoli, there were like 10000 supporters max and that scene was clearly staged. gaddafi was calling for all tribes to be armed and to change lybia to a red raging fire, damn crazy ass, he wants to burn the place down kill as many as possible, he's a serial leader. i think he will get killed soon
just sharing what i'm seeing too. don't think of these people as hungry animals, they don't have a central demonstration in lybia, it's basically groups of people here and there gathering in scattered areas all round the country revolting kicking police out facing bullets with sticks and stones. if you believe that iranian revolution was the way you describe it, you're terribly mistaken. it took like a whole year for that revolution to finish, you're not saying that the crowds were being fed for that long... even until today, the people in iran gather in millions to support the revolution. if you saw one fishy scene on tv then try and see more scenes, it's a bloody revolution all over the place, most fractions of the army split, the UN ambassador of lybia split so did many of the lybian ambassadors all round the world. it looks like a clear revolution, only more bloody than what happened in egypt and tunisia. BTW i saw gaddafi speech yesterday in tripoli, there were like 10000 supporters max and that scene was clearly staged. gaddafi was calling for all tribes to be armed and to change lybia to a red raging fire, damn crazy ass, he wants to burn the place down kill as many as possible, he's a serial leader. i think he will get killed soon
Sputnik, you're mistaken if you think that the Libya uprisings are staged, although much of the pro-Gadaffi "support" demonstrations were. Are you sure that wasn't what you were seeing?
You also have to bear in mind that there was a near-total information blackout, and there were thousands of paid african mercenaries on the streets shooting at anyone that dared to come out of their houses. The people gained the upper hand by remaining fragmented, and if they had gathered en masse at any pint they would have surely been slaughtered. Gadaffi forces were using anti tank and anti air munitions against civilians, as well as ordering air strikes against gatherings. This is well documented, and the fact that his own army deserted him, and his air force pilots defected to Malta in their planes, or ejected rather than bomb their own, shows you how bad the situation has gotten. Doctors in hospitals have made statements that mercs were coming into hospitals, killing any wounded, and taking all the bodies in order to hide the amount of dead. Mass graves of soldiers who refused to follow orders have been found, as well as sealed underground dungeons full of dissenters.
You're right though, something does stink in Libya. It's the smell of death, and it's everywhere. Don't demean what these people have done for themselves by claiming that it isn't happening, or that it is only possible because of interference by western interests. It's happening, and is entirely down to the people of Libya who were pushed too far, and pushed back.
Hopefully they have set a new trend that will be followed elsewhere. It's time that governments started being afraid of their people once again.
You also have to bear in mind that there was a near-total information blackout, and there were thousands of paid african mercenaries on the streets shooting at anyone that dared to come out of their houses. The people gained the upper hand by remaining fragmented, and if they had gathered en masse at any pint they would have surely been slaughtered. Gadaffi forces were using anti tank and anti air munitions against civilians, as well as ordering air strikes against gatherings. This is well documented, and the fact that his own army deserted him, and his air force pilots defected to Malta in their planes, or ejected rather than bomb their own, shows you how bad the situation has gotten. Doctors in hospitals have made statements that mercs were coming into hospitals, killing any wounded, and taking all the bodies in order to hide the amount of dead. Mass graves of soldiers who refused to follow orders have been found, as well as sealed underground dungeons full of dissenters.
You're right though, something does stink in Libya. It's the smell of death, and it's everywhere. Don't demean what these people have done for themselves by claiming that it isn't happening, or that it is only possible because of interference by western interests. It's happening, and is entirely down to the people of Libya who were pushed too far, and pushed back.
Hopefully they have set a new trend that will be followed elsewhere. It's time that governments started being afraid of their people once again.
sputniknz
Active Member
STOP STOP STOP....
Nocturn and zem, firstly i said "hypothetical".... Secondly i pointed out that i was not intending to offend... thirdly i pointed out that i am not trying to undermine it by suggesting the whole thing is false.....fourthly.... how many times do i have to repeat this..... gaddafi is BAD...definately has to go!!!!.....
So in essence i agree with the both of you, no questions asked. Viva la resistance!!!... but im just saying something other than death stinks in libya.
Im not going to argue the point because i neither care to or have the evidence to back it up, since it doesnt exist...yet (maybe). And as for the protest being staged for gaddafi's benefit..... i doubt this one was, why?... well in the text on screen, tv3 news here in nz translated the text on the signs as "blood for freedom" and "you cant silence the storm" so i would assume that these were anti-gaddafi rallies....
Once again... I REPEAT FOR THE FINAL TIME, i am pro-revolution in libya, i am not a gaddafi supporter, i beleive the people are right to revolt, gaddafi is crazy..... and for the right, SOMETHING STINKS!!!.... what it is i dont know, do i base my whole assumption on the clip i saw on tv3 news, NO..... all i am saying is once he is gone, BE VERY CAREFUL OF THE PAWN PUT IN PLACE TO REPLACE HIM!!!!!..... i beleive there will be a corporate pawn in gaddafis place because unlike egypt the people in libya dont yet have the capacity to control there goverment.... be it by modern communication technologies etc etc.
So before you start remember, i am actually in agreeance with you, mostly, its just some things dont ring the same bell for me as they do you.... time will tell.
Nocturn and zem, firstly i said "hypothetical".... Secondly i pointed out that i was not intending to offend... thirdly i pointed out that i am not trying to undermine it by suggesting the whole thing is false.....fourthly.... how many times do i have to repeat this..... gaddafi is BAD...definately has to go!!!!.....
So in essence i agree with the both of you, no questions asked. Viva la resistance!!!... but im just saying something other than death stinks in libya.
Im not going to argue the point because i neither care to or have the evidence to back it up, since it doesnt exist...yet (maybe). And as for the protest being staged for gaddafi's benefit..... i doubt this one was, why?... well in the text on screen, tv3 news here in nz translated the text on the signs as "blood for freedom" and "you cant silence the storm" so i would assume that these were anti-gaddafi rallies....
Once again... I REPEAT FOR THE FINAL TIME, i am pro-revolution in libya, i am not a gaddafi supporter, i beleive the people are right to revolt, gaddafi is crazy..... and for the right, SOMETHING STINKS!!!.... what it is i dont know, do i base my whole assumption on the clip i saw on tv3 news, NO..... all i am saying is once he is gone, BE VERY CAREFUL OF THE PAWN PUT IN PLACE TO REPLACE HIM!!!!!..... i beleive there will be a corporate pawn in gaddafis place because unlike egypt the people in libya dont yet have the capacity to control there goverment.... be it by modern communication technologies etc etc.
So before you start remember, i am actually in agreeance with you, mostly, its just some things dont ring the same bell for me as they do you.... time will tell.
sputniknz
Active Member
This is true.... governments have enjoyed power for far to long, but.... THE PEOPLE ARE BACK!, question is, the east has got it... when will the west catch the bug??? only if the western world follows suit will we really be ontrack!
zem
Well-Known Member
exactly! if you mean by the west as U.S. i think it's a damn tyranny too! but not the whole west, i mean you have beautiful democracies in the west, but the world's leading democracy, U.S., is anything but that IMO. it's a police state and power is kept in the hands of a few and illusion is created for people to think theyr really free when in fact they have no say whatsoever in what goes on.
No problems here sputnik, and I didn't take offense to your views. It's just that when you suggested that the revolt only happened because of western plots, i felt I had to disagree. I have been following these events closely, and have seen how one thing led to the next, and it seemed, to me at least, that they have happened in an organic manner, rather than any kind of pre-conceived plot.
I will also note that gadaffi wasn't an enemy of western countries in recent years, and much of what he has in terms of weaponry was supplied by the US and europe, in exchange for cooperation regarding oil trade. He was a "friendly dictator", and it wouldn't be in the interests of the west to organise a revolt in this manner. I do however share your opinion that whoever replaces him is likely to be a corporate pawn, since I doubt the western elites will just sit back and let events unfold without interference, although from what I have been seeing the Libyans are well aware of this fact, and for many of them the revolt is as much about freeing themselves from western imperialism as it is about freeing themselves from dictatorial rule.
I disagree with your statement that libyans don't have the capacity to govern themselves, and have any kind of problem with "modern communication technologies". From what I have observed, they can use social media platforms very effectively, as a tool for organisation and change, moreso than most of us in the west are able or motivated to do. As for self-governence, they have been doing it for years, with people's committees etc. It's just that now, they may actually be able to achieve changes, without fear of death or arrest if they rock the boat.
Regarding what you saw on TV, it is probably unwise for you to infer anything from a single clip on TV regarding an event as complex as this. As for the actual content you referred to, does the fact that many signs were written with the same pen mean anything? I would suggest that maybe one person in the group pictured was writing all the signs whilst others were doing other things. The fact that it was a small group, or that some of them were covering their faces or wearing shades doesn't seem significant either, when you bear in mind that people are being massacred for protesting. Also, where was this video that you saw actually shot? Somewhere densely populated, or in a small town or village?
I would be more convinced of your theory if you had observed something like multiple protests in entirely seperate locations, but with the same faces appearing in many of them (as happened with the media coverage of the "liberation" of Baghdad).
I will also note that gadaffi wasn't an enemy of western countries in recent years, and much of what he has in terms of weaponry was supplied by the US and europe, in exchange for cooperation regarding oil trade. He was a "friendly dictator", and it wouldn't be in the interests of the west to organise a revolt in this manner. I do however share your opinion that whoever replaces him is likely to be a corporate pawn, since I doubt the western elites will just sit back and let events unfold without interference, although from what I have been seeing the Libyans are well aware of this fact, and for many of them the revolt is as much about freeing themselves from western imperialism as it is about freeing themselves from dictatorial rule.
I disagree with your statement that libyans don't have the capacity to govern themselves, and have any kind of problem with "modern communication technologies". From what I have observed, they can use social media platforms very effectively, as a tool for organisation and change, moreso than most of us in the west are able or motivated to do. As for self-governence, they have been doing it for years, with people's committees etc. It's just that now, they may actually be able to achieve changes, without fear of death or arrest if they rock the boat.
Regarding what you saw on TV, it is probably unwise for you to infer anything from a single clip on TV regarding an event as complex as this. As for the actual content you referred to, does the fact that many signs were written with the same pen mean anything? I would suggest that maybe one person in the group pictured was writing all the signs whilst others were doing other things. The fact that it was a small group, or that some of them were covering their faces or wearing shades doesn't seem significant either, when you bear in mind that people are being massacred for protesting. Also, where was this video that you saw actually shot? Somewhere densely populated, or in a small town or village?
I would be more convinced of your theory if you had observed something like multiple protests in entirely seperate locations, but with the same faces appearing in many of them (as happened with the media coverage of the "liberation" of Baghdad).
sputniknz
Active Member
thats not what i said, i said they dont have the power to control it...... there is a difference, and as for governing yourself, well how can you if your goverment does not want it?
you make a good point with regard to the clip though, and as i said it is only a hypothetical...
sputniknz
Active Member
And i didn't say "western" plots.... i said corporatocracy..... there is a difference.
Just to note, without implying you have said something you haven't;
Just because western governments sell arms to a nation doesn't mean that nation is innocent if bad intentions.
sputniknz
Active Member
And there you have it..... the U.S. connection!!!!!