DK's 400w tent grow! Starring Goo, Mango and Purple Nepal!

DumpsterKeeper

Well-Known Member
What kind of soil you using?.

Using Garden State organic soil. I checked all over the bag and it has practically no nutes. No time release ones for sure. I just cut it with perlite and sphagnum peat moss. Every bag I bought is always about 7pH or a little under, so it's really easy to manipulate the soil itself. I've also never had any trouble with soil compaction when I use this brand.
 

gbran210

Active Member
Nice lookin plants we are about the same time frame i just started my grow in the same tent you have 400w mh\hps,. i'll follow you subbed + rep
 

DumpsterKeeper

Well-Known Member
Soo, I had a question. Should I keep these kids on 24 until I'm ready to flower, or should I start introducing a dark period at some point? I've heard that plants will do more root developing during their dark time, but will the foliage grow faster if I introduce darkness or if I keep the light on at all times?
 

drgreentm

Well-Known Member
i run my veg 24/0 right till flower but i run t5's for veg if i had hid in veg i would prably go 18/6 just for power consumption. 18/6 or 24/0 i doubt you will see a huge difference in growth between the two.
 

DumpsterKeeper

Well-Known Member
Good to know. I may switch them over to 20/4 to save on power, but for now they'll stay on the same schedule. The yellowing seems to have stopped on the Goo & Mango, so I'll continue foliar feeding with the MG organic and keep them on the same does of GB for now. Will the be stunted for the rest of the grow or have I caught the problem early enough to prevent any damage?

I'm kind of hoping the Mango turns out to be male. If I could collect some pollen and cross-breed with the PM, the indica genetics in the Mango might make the new strain shorter and more receptive to indoor growing. Any thoughts on this?
 

Illumination

New Member
I have some MG organic that's all N (8-0-0). According to the label it's just made from molasses, so I could just add a little to my premixed FF nutes. That would work, right?

And I was totally talking about making it rain. I read that in a thread here one time and just can't remember who posted it.
https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/316301-calling-all-noob-growers.html there's the make it rain thread

this is my version:

Ok I have 5 gallon containers and this is exactly what I do

Take 10 gallons ro water per plant that needs rain
Add 1 ml per gallon Dynagro Protekt per gallon (ph stability and silica saturation of media)
Ph it to 5.8
Run all 10 gallons through
Mix nutes in 2 gallons water to 750 ppm (currently, adjusted as plants tell me) Ph to 6.5
Pour those 2 gallons of feed water through
I do this every time the containers get light...approximately 30% full wet weight ( I have found they prefer not getting too dried out, and with lotsa of perilite they drain awesomely)
this is the rain method I have developed which works best for me...your mileage may vary...the plants will guide you...they seem to need more food earlier on when making it rain than watering as usual....they also dry out alot quicker so keep that in mind as well

Also would recommend you look into and read this since you use a 400 watt as I do:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=72215

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cmhfact3.htm

The place to buy them ...great prices and the best customer service:

https://www.lightingsupply.com/CDM400S51-HOR-4K-ALTO.aspx

you do have a magnetic coil hps ballast as it is required for that bulb

hope it helps....

Namaste':leaf:

ps- I too like 24/0..no dark needed until flower...seems to work better for me especially in the transition
 

Illumination

New Member
From an administrator at Sensi Seeds

"Advanced - Flushing

A critical look at preharvest flushing

Pre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

A good read about plant nutrition can be found here.

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

http://www.hort.wisc.edu/cran/Publications/2001 Proceedings/min_nutr.pdf

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

http://acd.ucar.edu/~eholland/encyc6.html

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

http://www.sidwell.edu

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

http://www.sirinet.net

Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

Translocation:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.


Summary:

Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on unflushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and unproper drying/curing."


Now one would believe that Mr. Sensi knows what he is talking about right?
I mean after all they are probably one of if not the best breeders out there?


So please see that I do not just spout off but only share what I know...if it is what I think I will say so but if I know it it is because I have applied it and verified it plus I have a chemistry degree as well...and that really is all a plant is...a chemistry lab;-)

Hope it helps bro.....

Namaste':eyesmoke:
 

tricka

Active Member
hey great info Illumination!!! rep+ to ya, even thos i have known about this for a little while, i too was a non believer
 

drgreentm

Well-Known Member
From an administrator at Sensi Seeds

"Advanced - Flushing

A critical look at preharvest flushing

Pre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

A good read about plant nutrition can be found here.

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

http://www.hort.wisc.edu/cran/Publications/2001 Proceedings/min_nutr.pdf

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

http://acd.ucar.edu/~eholland/encyc6.html

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

http://www.sidwell.edu

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

http://www.sirinet.net

Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

Translocation:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.


Summary:

Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on unflushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and unproper drying/curing."


Now one would believe that Mr. Sensi knows what he is talking about right?
I mean after all they are probably one of if not the best breeders out there?


So please see that I do not just spout off but only share what I know...if it is what I think I will say so but if I know it it is because I have applied it and verified it plus I have a chemistry degree as well...and that really is all a plant is...a chemistry lab;-)

Hope it helps bro.....

Namaste':eyesmoke:
dam good info man +rep to you and thanks for the rep on the 400 club thread im with you on this one i actually just harvested some of my plants with no flush and still have 3 more that are flushing and i can say they have only been in the cure jars for a day now and already smelling dank. dont know why the "flush" subject is so overlooked, i have even heard tons of old schoolers who used to flush tell me its worthless. a good dry and cure can go a long way and make a huge difference on your smoking preferences.
 

DumpsterKeeper

Well-Known Member
+ rep for that info, Lumi. Sensi is one of my favorite breeders (who do you think provided the Skunk #1 seeds for my first grow?) and one of the best breeders in the game. As far as I'm concerned, if they say something, there is at least some credibility to it.

That brings up a new question for me: If I foliar feed with FF (which contains trace minerals), will this help get those trace minerals where they need to be faster? It seems like FF was made for bud without such a thing being said on the label (*ahem*Advanced*ahem*).

Also, I'm considering topping these plants, but I'm a bit concerned about space. If I topped 4-6 plants, would they grow out of control in such a small space? I figured I can grow 8 single cola plants comfortably in my tent, but I'm not so sure about topping or LST in this space.
 

tricka

Active Member
The bottom yellow leaves on the Mango are starting to turn purple and I'm kinda worried. Pics coming in a minute.
this is not my quote but from this site....
N deficiency.......


Plants will exhibit lack of vigor, slow growth and will be weak and stunted. Quality and yield will be significantly reduced. Older leaves become yellow (chlorotic) from lack of chlorophyll. Deficient plants will exhibit uniform light green to yellow on older leaves, these leaves may die and drop. Leaf margins will not curled up noticeably. Chlorosis will eventually spread throughout the plant. Stems, petioles and lower leaf
surfaces may turn purple.

http://www.amsterdammarijuanaseedbank.com/Growguides/troubleshootingsolutions/marijuana-plant-abuse.html
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688 this one is the best for overall problems and answers!!!!

hope i havnt jumped in too early DM??
 

DumpsterKeeper

Well-Known Member
You're fine. It looks pretty much like the description. I just gave it some FF grow nutes with some of the MG organic cut in for extra N. It doesn't seem to be fucking with the new growth, so I'll keep it up for now.

Here are the girls, they look alright, but the N deficiency is becoming obvious in the Mango.

20110218004332.jpg20110218004212.jpg20110218004227.jpg20110218004241.jpg

Looks bad now, but I'm sure they'll live.

The Purple Maroc seems to be growing a somewhat... retarded way. The leaves are pointing straight up. They've been like that for 3 days now, and I'm not sure what to make of it...

20110218004455.jpg20110218004349.jpg

See what I mean?

New seeds coming!!!

I placed an order from Attitude and I can't wait for them. Here's the total, though I won't be able to grow them all at once (dammit all).

-10x Female Seeds White Widow x Big Bud
-Green House colored sativa/indica mix C
-1x Hawaiian Snow
-1x Super Silver Haze
-1x Lemon Skunk
-1x White Rhino
-1x Big Bang
-1x Kannabia Special (Kannabia Seeds freebie)
-1x Sugar Black Rose (Delicious Seeds freebie)
-1x Northern Light Blue (Delicious Seeds freebie)

So that's a total of 18 seeds now. With any luck and a few successful clones, I may not need to order more for a long time.
 

Illumination

New Member
I'll look into CMH. I have a ballast built for MH and HPS, would a CMH work in it?


Also would recommend you look into and read this since you use a 400 watt as I do:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=72215

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cmhfact3.htm

The place to buy them ...great prices and the best customer service:

https://www.lightingsupply.com/CDM40...R-4K-ALTO.aspx

you do have a magnetic coil hps ballast as it is required for that bulb ...if it is the heavy old style and not the electronic or digital ballasts then yes...

hope it helps....

Namaste'
 

Illumination

New Member
You're fine. It looks pretty much like the description. I just gave it some FF grow nutes with some of the MG organic cut in for extra N. It doesn't seem to be fucking with the new growth, so I'll keep it up for now.

Here are the girls, they look alright, but the N deficiency is becoming obvious in the Mango.

View attachment 1447922View attachment 1447924View attachment 1447926View attachment 1447927

Looks bad now, but I'm sure they'll live.

The Purple Maroc seems to be growing a somewhat... retarded way. The leaves are pointing straight up. They've been like that for 3 days now, and I'm not sure what to make of it...

View attachment 1447923View attachment 1447925

See what I mean?

New seeds coming!!!

I placed an order from Attitude and I can't wait for them. Here's the total, though I won't be able to grow them all at once (dammit all).

-10x Female Seeds White Widow x Big Bud
-Green House colored sativa/indica mix C
-1x Hawaiian Snow
-1x Super Silver Haze
-1x Lemon Skunk
-1x White Rhino
-1x Big Bang
-1x Kannabia Special (Kannabia Seeds freebie)
-1x Sugar Black Rose (Delicious Seeds freebie)
-1x Northern Light Blue (Delicious Seeds freebie)

So that's a total of 18 seeds now. With any luck and a few successful clones, I may not need to order more for a long time.
Feed it 1/2 dose Grow Big (I do not and will not use made for cannabis nutes unless free as there is no such thing as cannabis specific nutrients so to begin with it is a lie, so what else are they lying about? AN was caught by the state of Oregon's department of AG to not even actually contain what they say it does nor in the stated amounts and had lotsa things in it that aren't supposed to be)And 15 ml Big Bloom/gallon ...nitrogen defiency for sure....what kinda water you using??

Namaste':leaf:
 

DumpsterKeeper

Well-Known Member
Using ordinary distilled water. The Goo is starting to pick it's growth rate back up and the Mango doesn't seem to be getting any worse. Should I be worried about the PMs pointing directly up like that? I've never seen a seedling do such a thing.

I hadn't heard that about AN, but now I'm probably gonna stay away from them. FF hasn't let me down yet, so I don't see any reason to switch brands anyway.
 
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