Yeah I think the best lights are Kessil and Spectra. I might have gone with the Spectral Halo or whatever it is but I didn't want to wait for its release (and we don't even know the details of it do we?). Watt for watt Kessils are definitely the best grow lights out there but I wanted something a little more conventional and that I had seen many completed grow journals for, the Spectra!
Led Users Unite!
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TshirtNinja
Well-Known Member
ima still stick with my blackstars for now to be honest we have seen good results for the price. I will be rocking 2 new 240w panels early next week. if i even thought i wasnt getting the results i wanted i could honestly change out the drivers myself to throw out more wattage but i trust i will enjoy these lights. Rocking 580w of blackstar and using around 200 extra watts of cfl for heat i think my babies will like it just fine.
btw sean at gotham told me about some lights they are checking out and testing that would eliminate the dark period needed on photo strains....... 24 HOUR FLOWERING!!!!! Knock the led's from lighthouse all you want but i'm looking forward to this new tech a lot more than some led's.
btw sean at gotham told me about some lights they are checking out and testing that would eliminate the dark period needed on photo strains....... 24 HOUR FLOWERING!!!!! Knock the led's from lighthouse all you want but i'm looking forward to this new tech a lot more than some led's.
ink the world
Well-Known Member
Im not an electrical engineer in any way shape or form. I grow pot. Im not gonna post about theory or anything other than what I have experienced first hand.
Ive had my Blackstar for 2 weeks now and Im happy. It is brighter and quieter than I expected. When I got my unit in I took 2 clones and placed one under the Blackstar and one under my 400 watt HPS. The 2 lights are next to each other, so the plants get a mixture of both lights. From what I see in the 2 weeks is that the plants getting more LED light are flowering a little quicker.
I cant say that LED is superior to HID, it isnt. But I will say that a combination of LED and HID is awesome. My perpetual grow loves it
Ive had my Blackstar for 2 weeks now and Im happy. It is brighter and quieter than I expected. When I got my unit in I took 2 clones and placed one under the Blackstar and one under my 400 watt HPS. The 2 lights are next to each other, so the plants get a mixture of both lights. From what I see in the 2 weeks is that the plants getting more LED light are flowering a little quicker.
I cant say that LED is superior to HID, it isnt. But I will say that a combination of LED and HID is awesome. My perpetual grow loves it
Hudsonvalley82
Well-Known Member
Seeing as how 240W models is actually still cheaper than 240W of actual draw from any other company by a long shot, I am going with blackstar still. I'll just buy twice the units for the price, and they seem to work fine. Has anyone tested their kessils? or their own models? Out side of growledhydro? Cuz im sure we will find that a lot of companies do that. I would bet all but a small handful do.
Just like the horsepower analogy: yeah car is advertised a at so much horse power, actually produces this much, and that is only if you floor it all the time.
Actually wattage draw varies I would imagine, and therefore most companies put up the only number that doesn't: the max draw. From what I gather, LED's are strange creatures and don't work as simply as "this many watts produces this much light".
Some good nuggets about LEDS:
"Most common LEDs have a maximum current rating of 20mA. A number of factors make it
advantageous to use less current. For instance, if you have very limited airflow around the LED it cannot
dissipate its small amount of heat and may fail. A high ambient temperature can have the same effect.
Power supply voltage variations are also a factor which should not be ignored. A circuit designed at
maximum current will exceed that value if the power supply voltage increases. In addition, there is
usually little noticeable difference in the brightness of an LED run at the maximum current of 20mA and
one run at 10mA."
"If you want excellent reliability, then design for 10mA or less for standard LEDs. First you need to know
the voltage drop across the LED. This is a parameter associated with the specific type of LED and you
can find it on the devices data sheet. If the data sheet is not available, it is usually safe enough to assume
1.7volts for non-high-brightness red, 1.9volts for high-brightness, high-efficiency and low-current red,
2volts for orange and yellow, and 2.1volts for green. Assume 3.4volts for bright white, bright non-
yellowish green, and most blue types. Assume 4.6 volts for 430 nM bright blue types such as Everbright
and Radio Shack. Design for 10mA for the 3.4 volt types and 8mA for the 430 nM blue.
You can design for higher current if you are adventurous or you know you will have a good ventilation,
preventing heat buildup. In such a case, you might design for 25mA for the types with voltage near 2
volts, 18 mA for the 3.4 volt types, and 15 mA for the 430 nM blue. However, as stated, there will be
little additional brightness. Meet or exceed the maximum rated current of the LED only under extremely
favorable conditions which are not subject to change. Some LED current ratings assume some really
favorable test conditions, such as being surrounded by air no warmer than 25 degrees Celsius, and some
decent thermal conduction from where the leads are mounted. Running the LED at specified laboratory
conditions used for maximum current rating will make it lose half its light output after rated life
expectancy, said to be 20,000 to 100,000 hours, but this is very optimistic! You can use somewhat higher
currents if you heat-sink the leads and/or can tolerate much shorter life expectancy."
"The last thing to do is to check the resistor wattage. You could multiply the resistors voltage drop by the
LED current to get the wattage being dissipated in the resistor. Example: 2.6volts times .03amp (30
milliamps) is .078Watt. For good reliability, I recommend not exceeding 50 percent of the wattage rating
of the resistor. A 1/4Watt (.25W) resistor can easily handle .078 watt. In case you need a more powerful
resistor, there are 1/2 watt resistors widely available in the popular values.
This is not necessarily the preferred method, however. Since you have to use a standard value resistor,
your LED current is not going to be the same as it would have been if the computed resistance were used
in the circuit. A better method of calculating the power rating for the resistor when the exact resulting
current is not known is to use the formula P=E2/R, where E is the voltage across the resistor and R is the
actual value of the resistor used (not the computed value). Then, as always, use a resistor rated for at least
twice this amount of power."
Sourced from: learning.hccs.edu/faculty/david.wells/musc1323/handouts/handout-2
So umm having your LEDs run at twice the current (which keeping the voltage the same, as you cant vary that) is the only way to increase wattage. Increasing the current yields little noticeable differences in light output, therefore LEDs are more efficient than we think if they are advertised at max wattage?? Am I wrong?
So the Grow LED hydro advertising at 300W is probably 600W of 3W diodes running at 50%? No?
So In reality I am push 750W worth of blackstar. That is only drawing 375W you are telling me, and I am putting out about the same output as I would be if they were at full bore?
Works for me. I thought I was getting 750W worth of light, and, from what I gather, at full bore, I almost am. However I am using half the electricity?
So ledbudguy yielded 1.94 grams per usable watt if those panels are advertised the same way?? Then LED lights fucking rock, and I will be doubling down on them as It seems I can afford the electricity.
So here is the score: 600W (max output) of 3W Diodes running at 50% puts out about the same light product as the same 3W diodes running at 90%? The only better product is someone advertising 600W actual draw from 1200W of 3W diodes running at 50%, that will yield twice the light.
So bang for bang most light advertised at 300W are using 150W and putting up similar PAR and Intensity numbers at the same diodes at 100% wattage? Most of the energy after that 50% threshold of resistance is used in making heat not light?
Also i heard the LED's become even more efficient over time? Is that true?
Just like the horsepower analogy: yeah car is advertised a at so much horse power, actually produces this much, and that is only if you floor it all the time.
Actually wattage draw varies I would imagine, and therefore most companies put up the only number that doesn't: the max draw. From what I gather, LED's are strange creatures and don't work as simply as "this many watts produces this much light".
Some good nuggets about LEDS:
"Most common LEDs have a maximum current rating of 20mA. A number of factors make it
advantageous to use less current. For instance, if you have very limited airflow around the LED it cannot
dissipate its small amount of heat and may fail. A high ambient temperature can have the same effect.
Power supply voltage variations are also a factor which should not be ignored. A circuit designed at
maximum current will exceed that value if the power supply voltage increases. In addition, there is
usually little noticeable difference in the brightness of an LED run at the maximum current of 20mA and
one run at 10mA."
"If you want excellent reliability, then design for 10mA or less for standard LEDs. First you need to know
the voltage drop across the LED. This is a parameter associated with the specific type of LED and you
can find it on the devices data sheet. If the data sheet is not available, it is usually safe enough to assume
1.7volts for non-high-brightness red, 1.9volts for high-brightness, high-efficiency and low-current red,
2volts for orange and yellow, and 2.1volts for green. Assume 3.4volts for bright white, bright non-
yellowish green, and most blue types. Assume 4.6 volts for 430 nM bright blue types such as Everbright
and Radio Shack. Design for 10mA for the 3.4 volt types and 8mA for the 430 nM blue.
You can design for higher current if you are adventurous or you know you will have a good ventilation,
preventing heat buildup. In such a case, you might design for 25mA for the types with voltage near 2
volts, 18 mA for the 3.4 volt types, and 15 mA for the 430 nM blue. However, as stated, there will be
little additional brightness. Meet or exceed the maximum rated current of the LED only under extremely
favorable conditions which are not subject to change. Some LED current ratings assume some really
favorable test conditions, such as being surrounded by air no warmer than 25 degrees Celsius, and some
decent thermal conduction from where the leads are mounted. Running the LED at specified laboratory
conditions used for maximum current rating will make it lose half its light output after rated life
expectancy, said to be 20,000 to 100,000 hours, but this is very optimistic! You can use somewhat higher
currents if you heat-sink the leads and/or can tolerate much shorter life expectancy."
"The last thing to do is to check the resistor wattage. You could multiply the resistors voltage drop by the
LED current to get the wattage being dissipated in the resistor. Example: 2.6volts times .03amp (30
milliamps) is .078Watt. For good reliability, I recommend not exceeding 50 percent of the wattage rating
of the resistor. A 1/4Watt (.25W) resistor can easily handle .078 watt. In case you need a more powerful
resistor, there are 1/2 watt resistors widely available in the popular values.
This is not necessarily the preferred method, however. Since you have to use a standard value resistor,
your LED current is not going to be the same as it would have been if the computed resistance were used
in the circuit. A better method of calculating the power rating for the resistor when the exact resulting
current is not known is to use the formula P=E2/R, where E is the voltage across the resistor and R is the
actual value of the resistor used (not the computed value). Then, as always, use a resistor rated for at least
twice this amount of power."
Sourced from: learning.hccs.edu/faculty/david.wells/musc1323/handouts/handout-2
So umm having your LEDs run at twice the current (which keeping the voltage the same, as you cant vary that) is the only way to increase wattage. Increasing the current yields little noticeable differences in light output, therefore LEDs are more efficient than we think if they are advertised at max wattage?? Am I wrong?
So the Grow LED hydro advertising at 300W is probably 600W of 3W diodes running at 50%? No?
So In reality I am push 750W worth of blackstar. That is only drawing 375W you are telling me, and I am putting out about the same output as I would be if they were at full bore?
Works for me. I thought I was getting 750W worth of light, and, from what I gather, at full bore, I almost am. However I am using half the electricity?
So ledbudguy yielded 1.94 grams per usable watt if those panels are advertised the same way?? Then LED lights fucking rock, and I will be doubling down on them as It seems I can afford the electricity.
So here is the score: 600W (max output) of 3W Diodes running at 50% puts out about the same light product as the same 3W diodes running at 90%? The only better product is someone advertising 600W actual draw from 1200W of 3W diodes running at 50%, that will yield twice the light.
So bang for bang most light advertised at 300W are using 150W and putting up similar PAR and Intensity numbers at the same diodes at 100% wattage? Most of the energy after that 50% threshold of resistance is used in making heat not light?
Also i heard the LED's become even more efficient over time? Is that true?
Hello all, came across this thread and just had to join! 
I have tried some Led lights, i think most work great, some need CFL support, but thats just good for heat
Someone with good connection with Gotham should ask for more info, cause a good hi-tech 24hour PAD light if done right would turn growing up side down, and would be well worth waiting for if one are about to invest in Leds.
I know some threads about PAD, would link to them, but dont know its ok to link to other Forums?
I have tried some Led lights, i think most work great, some need CFL support, but thats just good for heat
I also believe Kessil is the best right now, but would really like some info on the Spectral Halo from Kessil, anyone know anything?
Sounds like it could be a PAD setup, i have experimented some with home made PAD lightning and its really cool!
Someone with good connection with Gotham should ask for more info, cause a good hi-tech 24hour PAD light if done right would turn growing up side down, and would be well worth waiting for if one are about to invest in Leds.
I know some threads about PAD, would link to them, but dont know its ok to link to other Forums?
fssalaska
Well-Known Member
surgedup
Active Member
I voted and scribed good work!!!
So decided to go with LED's. My original plan was 1 1000w HID.
My tent is a 5x5x6.5
My question is 5-200w leds too much?
GS-200 LED (american bridgeluex diodes)
Heres where i'm buying from. http://www.ledgrowsupply.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=58
My tent is a 5x5x6.5
My question is 5-200w leds too much?
GS-200 LED (american bridgeluex diodes)
Heres where i'm buying from. http://www.ledgrowsupply.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=58
Cereall
Well-Known Member
I'm using 4 260s, you will have great coverage side to side. Might be over kill as they will be close to each side of the tent and will really have to pack the tent with plant to maximize your leds potential.
Personally I would stick with 4 and space them out a little and let the lights footprint overlap and cover more area spaced out a little more.
Personally I would stick with 4 and space them out a little and let the lights footprint overlap and cover more area spaced out a little more.
surgedup
Active Member
sweet jesus thats alot of money for those GS-200's damn man send some money my way LOL!!
bajafox
Well-Known Member
Looks like I should be good then. I'm planning to add an ISIS-1 as supplemental to my HID before the summer and then an ISIS-2 to replace my HID in addition with the ISIS-1 for the summer. Or, dual Pro-Grow 260s
ISIS
http://ledgrowlightsdirect.com/isis-1/
Pro-Grows
http://hydroponicshut.com/pro-grow-260-watt-led-grow-light.html
Guys you have to be careful about the actual power draw. Watt for Watt LED is as good as HID (unless growing plants more than 2 or 3 feet tall). So if you guys are buying '300w' lights that are only pulling 150w you are only buying a 150w LED. If all blackstar units only draw half as many w as they tell you the light is then you are paying twice as much for half the product (I don't which or if all their lights run at half their rated w). Don't go by the units name/rated W go by the actual total draw (which some might not advertise so you don't know until you buy it) and THEN compare it to HID.
Ex: Spectra actually tells you the total wattage draw so you can get a good idea of what you need to face up to HID. A Spectra/LED with a total draw of 240w is going to beat the crap out of a blackstar '300' that only runs on 150w. This isn't a reason to buy Spectra over Blackstar, just be sure when buying an LED light you know the actual total draw of the light (you need that info from a consumer or the seller who spells what the total draw is) so you don't end up forking over tons of cash for a set up that is significantly less powerful than what you were charged for.
Ex: Spectra actually tells you the total wattage draw so you can get a good idea of what you need to face up to HID. A Spectra/LED with a total draw of 240w is going to beat the crap out of a blackstar '300' that only runs on 150w. This isn't a reason to buy Spectra over Blackstar, just be sure when buying an LED light you know the actual total draw of the light (you need that info from a consumer or the seller who spells what the total draw is) so you don't end up forking over tons of cash for a set up that is significantly less powerful than what you were charged for.
TshirtNinja
Well-Known Member
the type of light isnt the same as far as usable % so a watt for watt is like apples to oranges as far as usable light so your point is still invalid for a led to hid comparison. I really hate that people cant get it through the nogin that its not about total wattage but the light that is accepted per the plant................
sigh
I'm just talking about good LED lights with a mix of wavelengths. Good LED lights are as good as HID watt for watt. LED lights (except for certain ones like white) throw off only 1 wavelength and are FAR more efficient at producing lights the plant can use watt for watt compared to HID.
What I am saying is if you have a good, say 400w LED light you will grow as much high quality stuff as you would with a 400w HID (you should be able to grow even more with how LED lights produce light the plants can use more efficiently than HID does). A good LED should easily put out more usable light for a plant than an HID of the same wattage.
You made a good point about something a lot of people forget about or don't even know about, but I already knew that
TshirtNinja
Well-Known Member
+repsigh
I'm just talking about good LED lights with a mix of wavelengths. Good LED lights are as good as HID watt for watt. LED lights (except for certain ones like white) throw off only 1 wavelength and are FAR more efficient at producing lights the plant can use watt for watt compared to HID.
What I am saying is if you have a good, say 400w LED light you will grow as much high quality stuff as you would with a 400w HID (you should be able to grow even more with how LED lights produce light the plants can use more efficiently than HID does). A good LED should easily put out more usable light for a plant than an HID of the same wattage.
You made a good point about something a lot of people forget about or don't even know about, but I already knew that
i knew if i said it that way you would elaborate for everyone..... i was too high to spell all that out. but yes case in point that i would put my 240w led vs a 250 hid anyday of the week. i draw half the powa but throw down just as much usable plant light. I want to talk to homeboy at gotham and see whats up with this par lighting.... I swear thats what he was calling it on the phone too and that they are excited with the results already.
I know what you most likely meant, but a 240w LED only uses 10 watts less electricity (not counting ballast) than a 250w HID. And you could probably get away with a GOOD led that was half as many watts as your HID.
Oh and thanks, its funny that you had to use psychological tricks because you were too high to simply ask a question
TshirtNinja
Well-Known Member
what can i say im proud?
lol jk its a good day today. nah i meant the total draw from my blackstar since everyone is freakin over the diode pulls...... i just like to poke fun at people for not realizing that leds dont run at full power but throw out a ton of plant usable light and outperform if used properly.
lol jk its a good day today. nah i meant the total draw from my blackstar since everyone is freakin over the diode pulls...... i just like to poke fun at people for not realizing that leds dont run at full power but throw out a ton of plant usable light and outperform if used properly.
LED Users UNITE!
The only thing the heat tells us is how hot the heat sink is, with only the 95f info that is all we can possibly no. The heat won't mess with the lights unless its high enough to make them degrade faster