reverse osmosis

[MrStickyScissors]

I just bought the stealth 100 hydro logic. it pumps 100 gallons of pure water a day. I tested the ph of the pure water and it is 6.5 to 7.0. out of the tap it was around 9. the ppms of the pure watter was around 7 and the tap water was at 250 to 275.

My question is if I am doing everything right in my garden and the temps and R/H is right what would the effects be from using the reverse osmosis? a higher yield? better quality product?

 

[Japanfreak]

The effects? Very little, but it will make your wallet lighter because you have to buy ca-mag to put back into the water that you took out.

RO is not about making good water great, it's about making shitty water usable.

 

[REALSTYLES]

R/O water has lower contaminates and lower PPM's so you can give the plants more nutes, but using R/O water you should use Cal-Mag since the calcium is removed from the process

 

[MrStickyScissors]

The effects? Very little, but it will make your wallet lighter because you have to buy ca-mag to put back into the water that you took out.

RO is not about making good water great, it's about making shitty water usable.

thats what i bought it for to begin with. i run a crop at my moms in another city and the water there is horrible.unable to grow a healthy crop there. so i got the stealth 100 but her water presure is so janky that it barley works so i took it to my house and am now filling up 5 gallons jugs (40) gallons and bringing it over there to water. i am using it at my house as well evern the the water isnt horrible and have never had a problem i figure maybe i can feed a little heavier.

 

[MrStickyScissors]

R/O water has lower contaminates and lower PPM's so you can give the plants more nutes, but using R/O water you should use Cal-Mag since the calcium is removed from the process

thats exactly what i was thinking but wasnt sure

 

[CoralGrower]

You cannot measure the pH of RO water accurately (not with a hobby grade ph meter), because most of the carbonates have been removed (there is nothing to "buffer" the pH.) Additional Ca and Mg should be supplemented as they are definitely removed by RO filtration. Using RO water allows you absolute control over nutrients. You know exactly how much of what is in the water; no guessing involved. This is important if you want repeatability in your grows.

Let's just say that typical tap water has 200ppm and you want to run 1,000ppm in your setup. You add X amount of your nutrient solution and obtain 1,000 ppm. 20% of the TDS from this nutrient solution is a completely random and uncontrollable. Maybe it has Ca, maybe it doesn't. Maybe it has enough Mg, maybe it doesn't. Maybe the NPK values are right, most likely they are not. I'm not going to come out and say that RO water produces higher yields; it doesn't. It allows you better, more precise control of nutrients; not exactly a bad thing if you are quality minded.

 

[MrStickyScissors]

You cannot measure the pH of RO water accurately (not with a hobby grade ph meter), because most of the carbonates have been removed (there is nothing to "buffer" the pH.) Additional Ca and Mg should be supplemented as they are definitely removed by RO filtration. Using RO water allows you absolute control over nutrients. You know exactly how much of what is in the water; no guessing involved. This is important if you want repeatability in your grows.

Let's just say that typical tap water has 200ppm and you want to run 1,000ppm in your setup. You add X amount of your nutrient solution and obtain 1,000 ppm. 20% of the TDS from this nutrient solution is a completely random and uncontrollable. Maybe it has Ca, maybe it doesn't. Maybe it has enough Mg, maybe it doesn't. Maybe the NPK values are right, most likely they are not. I'm not going to come out and say that RO water produces higher yields; it doesn't. It allows you better, more precise control of nutrients; not exactly a bad thing if you are quality minded.

that makes sense. what type of ph meter would you consider not to be a hobby grade? cause thats the one I want. i have used digital ph meters and I didnt like them so now im bak to the indicator and plastic tube.

 

[Japanfreak]

Using RO water allows you absolute control over nutrients.

You say this because you read it but lets think about this for a sec. What makes you think you have absolute control? You're not doing anything different than adding the same nutes you would have added with tap water, except you have to add Cal-mag on top. The only control people have is in the selection of what product you buy, that's about it. RO offers you no more control than tap water.

If you had complete control than how about dropping the Boron 2%. How about raising the the sulfur by 1%? What's that? You can't?

There is your complete control.

 

[MrStickyScissors]

interesting

 

[CoralGrower]

I said it because I read it? You're a funny guy. Did I read it on Fox News? I'm adding the same nutes as tap water?? What is the nutrient content of your tap water? NPK will suffice, but go ahead and throw in the Ca and Mg just to shut me up. If I evaporate the tap water until I reach 1,000 ppm, then can I just use this solution and not buy any products? What are the benefits of adding lead and arsenic to grow water?

Complete control, no. More control than those who settle for using tap water, you betcha!!


I suggest that you add your products before doing any pH testing of the water. Laboratory grade pH meters are quite expensive (and usually unnecessary for the home guy) and probes that are used to read pure (or nearly pure) water are even more pricey. The labs I used to visit used Orion pH meters and probes.

 

[Japanfreak]

No you didn't read it on fox news, you read it on a pot forum or heard it in a hydro store and repeated it here. It was very easy for me to check what's in my tap water, I probably know more about my tap water than you know about your nutes. But it's cute that you think you have control because you can filter water.

 

[homebrewer]

You're not doing anything different than adding the same nutes you would have added with tap water, except you have to add Cal-mag on top. The only control people have is in the selection of what product you buy, that's about it.

Just because you already have calcium and magnesium in your tap water doesn't mean they're present in ratios that are desirable to plants. Mixing tap water that has a bad cal/mag ratio with nutes that have one of the two elements in excess leads to deficiencies. It's the same story with chloride, sodium and sulfur. On top of that, RO water is a consistent starting point, tap water is not.

RO offers you no more control than tap water.

But it does. RO water is a clean slate which allows the grower to build their water with mineral ratios that won't cause issues. The same holds true for advanced homebrewers and professional breweries. None of them are using straight tap water unless the ppm is already very low in which case optimal mineral profiles are added back based on style.

 

[MrStickyScissors]

I said it because I read it? You're a funny guy. Did I read it on Fox News? I'm adding the same nutes as tap water?? What is the nutrient content of your tap water? NPK will suffice, but go ahead and throw in the Ca and Mg just to shut me up. If I evaporate the tap water until I reach 1,000 ppm, then can I just use this solution and not buy any products? What are the benefits of adding lead and arsenic to grow water?

Complete control, no. More control than those who settle for using tap water, you betcha!!


I suggest that you add your products before doing any pH testing of the water. Laboratory grade pH meters are quite expensive (and usually unnecessary for the home guy) and probes that are used to read pure (or nearly pure) water are even more pricey. The labs I used to visit used Orion pH meters and probes.

where can I get a bad ass ph meter? im running 11 1,000 watt xxl's between 2 houses so if theres a way that i can upgrade anything i try to. the only thing I dont have pretty mush is light movers and co2

 

[Japanfreak]

Just because you already have calcium and magnesium in your tap water doesn't mean they're present in ratios that are desirable to plants.

The nute companies try to make ratios that work well with the average tap water. There is a good chance that the tap water is in the correct ratio or close to it.

 

[MrStickyScissors]

Just because you already have calcium and magnesium in your tap water doesn't mean they're present in ratios that are desirable to plants. Mixing tap water that has a bad cal/mag ratio with nutes that have one of the two elements in excess leads to deficiencies. It's the same story with chloride, sodium and sulfur. On top of that, RO water is a consistent starting point, tap water is not.
But it does. RO water is a clean slate which allows the grower to build their water with mineral ratios that won't cause issues. The same holds true for advanced homebrewers and professional breweries. None of them are using straight tap water unless the ppm is already very low in which case optimal mineral profiles are added back based on style.

my plants showed signs of a mag def. and I was thinking the same thing. if theres already mag. in my water and im adding nutes with more mag in it even if its a small amount it could fuk shit up. thats one reason I got the stealth 100 RO. well and I grow at a family members house as well and the water there is hard water

 

[homebrewer]

The nute companies try to make ratios that work well with the average tap water. There is a good chance that the tap water is in the correct ratio or close to it.

Acceptable mineral levels for healthy drinking water is totally different than optimal mineral ratios for healthy plants. To that, I just called DynaGro, GH and Botanicare and DynaGro and GH both said their formulas are formulated for RO water.

As you stated in your other post, a water report tells a lot more than a TDS meter. Depending on what minerals are present, 100ppm could mean someone needs an RO filter and 230ppm could mean someone doesn't.

Plain and simple, RO filters give growers and brewers more control over their water and there is just no way to argue against that. Is RO water needed or optimal? Well that depends.

 

[CoralGrower]

There are several sources online where you can obtain laboratory grade pH meters. I am not stressing that you need one of these; I don't own one (I have access to them all day.) Just be aware that there are some places that will not sell you their equipment unless you are a licensed physician.

If you are looking to fine tune or even supercharge your RO filter, I can help you with that. My RO filter is 3 1/2 years old and is still rejecting over 98.5% of the TDS in my tap water. Despite boy genius above claiming I read this information on the internet, I offer nothing except original information based upon experience; much like Homebrewer when he speaks of RO water being used in brewing beer.

 

[MrStickyScissors]

There are several sources online where you can obtain laboratory grade pH meters. I am not stressing that you need one of these; I don't own one (I have access to them all day.) Just be aware that there are some places that will not sell you their equipment unless you are a licensed physician.

If you are looking to fine tune or even supercharge your RO filter, I can help you with that. My RO filter is 3 1/2 years old and is still rejecting over 98.5% of the TDS in my tap water. Despite boy genius above claiming I read this information on the internet, I offer nothing except original information based upon experience; much like Homebrewer when he speaks of RO water being used in brewing beer.

Yeah I have seen homebrewer's post on this site before and they are legit. how do you fine tune the RO? im tired of using the liquid indicator and test tube I want sumthing more accurate and the digital ph metters that I have bought have been under 100 dollars and all have been pieces of shit. what would be a gud digital ph meter to get? one that doesnt throw out different readings on the same solution

 

[NLXSK1]

You say this because you read it but lets think about this for a sec. What makes you think you have absolute control? You're not doing anything different than adding the same nutes you would have added with tap water, except you have to add Cal-mag on top. The only control people have is in the selection of what product you buy, that's about it. RO offers you no more control than tap water.

If you had complete control than how about dropping the Boron 2%. How about raising the the sulfur by 1%? What's that? You can't?

There is your complete control.

Because water delivered by the city and/or county can vary in amount of calcium/magnesium, etc... Because the water company doesnt care about these particulates. So, you might fill your tank one week and its perfect and the next week the plants show deficiencies. Also, your PH can vary considerably.

With RO you drop the PPM down to 50-100 and have complete control on what you put in the water. This means your nutrient mix can be almost exactly the save every time.

Now, quite a few people can get by without an RO system but it certainly can eliminate certain problems from grows.

The only thing you are arguing is that it costs money. Well, everything that is used to improve grows costs money...

 

[CoralGrower]

Yeah I have seen homebrewer's post on this site before and they are legit. how do you fine tune the RO? im tired of using the liquid indicator and test tube I want sumthing more accurate and the digital ph metters that I have bought have been under 100 dollars and all have been pieces of shit. what would be a gud digital ph meter to get? one that doesnt throw out different readings on the same solution

I'll start with pH meters. Obviously, you have already worked with and have first hand experience with hobby grade pH meters. $100 meters aren't worth $100. I don't know your price range or how much emphasis you put on pH. I don't like to spend other people's money, and you will spend some $$$ on quality. Here is a link; scroll to the bottom for Thermo / Orion meters. I hope you understand that it's the guy with the PhD who chooses the equipment in the lab, not me. I will tell you this, they do not shop on price!!


http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_index.asp?cls=7450





As for tweaking RO filters, that I can do. First, you need a TDS meter. I have an HM COM-100 TDS meter. Not bottom of the line, not the be-all, end-all. It's impossible to know of any improvements if you cannot measure the TDS of your water. The idea is to get the TDS as low as possible (duh) by making the RO filter work by increasing the incoming pressure. It is also important to maintain a 4:1 waste to permeate ratio in order to help the filter live a long, happy life. I use a pressure pump on my filter. My tap water pressure is about 50psi; most RO filters advertised rejection rate is based upon 70psi to the filter. With the pressure pump, I keep the incoming water at 80 psi (the pump has an adjustment on it.) In order to maintain the proper waste to permeate ratio, I put a 1/4 turn ball valve on the end of my waste water hose. Most likely, the manufacturer of your unit says to NEVER plug this line, which is true. The ball valve (never fully closed) is nothing more than a flow restriction device. As you close this valve, the pressure inside the filter goes up; as you open the valve, the pressure goes down. The goal is to obtain up to 80psi with a 4:1 waste to permeate.

I am not too familiar with the unit you purchased; I see it only has room for two pre-filters; one which should be a carbon filter and the other a sediment filter. Here is my advice: Protect your RO filter!! Chlorine will kill your RO filter in no time, so a good carbon block filter is essential. The one I use is called a "Chlorine Grabber" and is rated for 20,000 gallons and 0.5 microns. Now, you need to protect this carbon filter from sediment so it can remove chlorine. This is where a good sediment filter (or two) come in. I use a 0.2 micron filter and a 1 micron filter before that (keeps the more pricey 0.2 micron filter from being clogged sooner.) There are several good online vendors for filters. Since I use my RO filter to make drinking water, I sanitize my unit every 6 months. All filters are removed, the housings put back on, a small amount of bleach is added to each filter housing, and I turn the water on. Let if fill and sit for 10 minutes, then empty it out, run some more water through it, replace the filters, and you're done. A good ziplock back will keep the RO filter moist when you remove it from the housing.


That kind of sort of sums it up.