White Widow Waterfarm. 1st Journal on the forums.

[jimbizzzale67123]

Awesome info megalith that was a good read I learned alot of new things, I just notice she drank a gallon of water and I hadn't replaced any so I just filled it up with some fresh water I hope I didn't do any damage I noticed it right away. I have a few damaged leaves I will post pictures later I dont think its nute burn they have been messed up for a bit and all the new growth looks great. I have too be carefull with the evaporation I imagine it can really increase the PPM drastically.

 

[jimbizzzale67123]

Hey what are some good sites to upload pics besides flicker I am almost out of space for this month?

 

[OGPanda]

Yeah... What Megalith said!

 

[legallyflying]

Thanks mega. Yeah, there is some complicated shit going on there for sure. I know hydroton "should" be neutral but my experience as well as several others has proven otherwise. When the hydroton sits for awhile it undergoes a chemical reaction with oxygen and becomes more basic. I had to soak the hell out of mine and probably added A HALF A CUP of ph down!!! to a 5- gallon pail over the course of 4 days to keep the ph in range. Read a great post by a chemist on another site as to why this is so but can spit out the explanation right now.

Anyways, I was going to put your theory to the test and added base nutes and some more liquid karma to my rez to see if this would slow down the PH increases. Then I took a ppm measurement and it read 1890. So I told myself "WTF are you doing, this isn't a lab, your going to fuck shit up" Panicked, scooped out 5-gallons and added tap to get things to 1600.

I think the over-riding rule (and I might scribe this on my grow room door) If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[T.M.B]

hey all you know i love what megalith said as well sounds logical but my little girls are only 11 days old and i tried that logic and had to tell myself wtf are you doing earlier i bumped my ppm up to 480 it started out at 5.5 ph and still rose to 6.1 i just ran downstairs and took ppm down to 350. This ph thing is makeing me stress out i dont want to hurt the little girls scotty made it seem so simple i may just be paranoid being my first hydro grow i dont know i wish that ph would just stable out i would rest easier for sure any ideas shoot them at me please and by the way i washed the hydroton well and preran them for a week before i put the seeds in them thnks for letting me use your thread for help jim.

 

[legallyflying]

5.5 is not a big deal. Not terrific, but not terrible either. I would ph down to 5.6 at the lowest to start with. 480 ppm sounds fine for plants that old..but I don't know what nutrients your using. Another factor as well is how big is your rez compared to the space your flooding? A bigger rez will be more stable. The amount of nutrients you add will also stabilize the PH simply because the naturally act as a buffer. Meaning your PH will fluctuate less during flower as your ppm will be in the 1500 -1800 range.

 

[Megalith]

T.M.B we all stressed the first grow. lol I'm pretty sure I panicked over everything. Just chill.

Legal post that link please so we can read it. Exactly on the if it aint broke theory.

For everyone else, If you have a system that produces what you want then dont change shit. The most important thing is to listen to your girls. Plain and simple.

I cant really give you guys my program and nute levels exactly since it changes. In general, I give clones a spray to the foliage and plugs @ 200-250 PPM. Then when they veg for the 3 weeks or so I have PPM 300-400. It usually stablizes in 2nd week and I just leave it until it swings. Now I have to add water and nutes during this perod but I always have records of where it was and just put it back. I flush for 5-6 days, usually starting couple days before flower. I do it because hi Nitrogen is a factor in strectch and my veg form is very hi Dynagrow Pro Foliage 9-3-6. Then in flower, I mix half and half my veg form and my bloom. Just so I know there getting ample N but not fool of it. At this stage I start gain at 250-300 PPM. I also mix the two to slowly introduce the bloom form which is high in P. Then I just slowly raise PPM with bloom form over the next 5 or 6 weeks(short flowering plant). Its usually stable around 3 of those weeks(not 3 weeks steady). I think just the change between nutes(where I do I fresh res clean of course) the whole system needs to stablize itself with good bacteria and other shit like a fishtank.
Before I know it the pistols are all turnig. At that point I start to flush again. So if my PPm is say 450 I just add water. I usually on keep around 7 gallons in my res so they drink it up fast. I just keep adding water within a week its 200 PPM or lower(my tap water is 90 after sitting). Now if you use alot of gallons the last part probably isnt ideal. I hope this is a clearer picture.

Not saying to do this exactly, I'm just showing what a mega typical grow is like in my ebb n flow

I should add that I switched from the hydrotten to lava rocks for a mutitude of reason but mainly because they just all around suck!

 

[T.M.B]

oh i am sorry i was so blown away by scottyballs journal p.e seed to harvest thats what i am trying to do. I am useing 2 waterfarms atm i purchased 4 but figured better take baby steps. I used a couple of my free promo fem seeds to start g-13 fem p.e and a dna fem sharksbreath,and I cant complain they are growing well this rising ph is just troubling me and i was wondering if jim had same probs at first and only 1 nute flora nova bloom start to finish i hope lol.

 

[Megalith]

oh i am sorry i was so blown away by scottyballs journal p.e seed to harvest thats what i am trying to do. I am useing 2 waterfarms atm i purchased 4 but figured better take baby steps. I used a couple of my free promo fem seeds to start g-13 fem p.e and a dna fem sharksbreath,and I cant complain they are growing well this rising ph is just troubling me and i was wondering if jim had same probs at first and only 1 nute flora nova bloom start to finish i hope lol.

Ah, are you giving them the Flora also? If so then theres your guide!

I just wanted to add you guys know my current grow is 650 PPM. This one has 4 plants and there not even 3 footers in this scrog. Like I said it's always different.

 

[legallyflying]

here you go megalith:http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hydro/msg100749279742.html

I had a similar problem and there are a shit ton of links about hydroton jacking ph if not properly treated.

Here is the meat of the thread (as a flame war erupted):

Hi Lucas, I think you are underestimating the capacity of cation exchange to change pH. Clays - especially those that have been dry for long periods of time - tend to be very basic and they will buffer a solution (especially if its poorly buffered) from 6.8 to even 9 in overnight. Also clays do increase their basic activity if they are stored for prolonged periods of time due the oxidative activity of atmospheric oxygen that creates basic defects within the crystal structure. Of course, this depends on the actual nature and composition of the clay but it does happen with certain frequency.
In commercial operations where media needs to be buffered the easiest thing to do is to first run a pH 3-4.5 buffer over the media within the hydroponic setup for a few days, adding more buffering agent if the pH drifts. When the pH remains constant the solution is ready. Usually good these buffering agents include acetate/actic acid and phosphoric acid/hydrogen phosphate but others such as citric acid species may also be used. Especially since they also have the ability to chelate cations and make the process faster. The initial buffer is usually prepared at 0.5 mM but the concentration can be increased if needed. After this the system is flushed and the crop is started.

 

[jimbizzzale67123]

Update: Day 6 of flower

I have some browning on some leaves, it happens to be leaves I will have to cut soon once the canopy fills out. But what do you guys think should I be concerned, am I feeding too heavy? As you can see she looks lush on the top.

Anyways I have spotted a few pistils so its a girl.

View attachment 1286017View attachment 1286019View attachment 1286020

 

[legallyflying]

You have to ask yourself... WWSBD?

Seriously though, it doesn't look good and you should probably find out what is going on. To me, it looks like a calcium deficiency the only thing from saying YES, that is it, is the lack of interveinal chlorosis on the upper Ileaves. But it is starting at the bottom and working its way up AND your not adding anything but bloom macro nutrients. It's hard to tell from the angle of the photo but are the leaves all kind of pointing up, like they are reaching for something? That is another classic sign of a deficiency. Magnesium can be locked out by too mch amonium based nitrogen or calcium. Are you using RO water? Are you adding micro-nutrients? If your using distilled water I would highly suggest you throw some calmag in with your nutes. don't freak, its cheap. So I would say, just add the fucker as it can't hurt and i would bet that is what is going on.

 

[Serapis]

That's strange, as the Flora Nova has Calcium in it. Interested in how this turns out.

 

[legallyflying]

yeah apparently it does have that. It also says it has humic extracts in it. Not sure if that means fluvic acid as that it is the only humic compound that can be absorbed in a hydro system. Don't know much about the GH stuff, I'm just looking at the leaves. Serpis, does it look like Ca deficiency to you?

 

[Megalith]

here you go megalith:http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hydro/msg100749279742.html

I had a similar problem and there are a shit ton of links about hydroton jacking ph if not properly treated.

Here is the meat of the thread (as a flame war erupted):

Hi Lucas, I think you are underestimating the capacity of cation exchange to change pH. Clays - especially those that have been dry for long periods of time - tend to be very basic and they will buffer a solution (especially if its poorly buffered) from 6.8 to even 9 in overnight. Also clays do increase their basic activity if they are stored for prolonged periods of time due the oxidative activity of atmospheric oxygen that creates basic defects within the crystal structure. Of course, this depends on the actual nature and composition of the clay but it does happen with certain frequency.
In commercial operations where media needs to be buffered the easiest thing to do is to first run a pH 3-4.5 buffer over the media within the hydroponic setup for a few days, adding more buffering agent if the pH drifts. When the pH remains constant the solution is ready. Usually good these buffering agents include acetate/actic acid and phosphoric acid/hydrogen phosphate but others such as citric acid species may also be used. Especially since they also have the ability to chelate cations and make the process faster. The initial buffer is usually prepared at 0.5 mM but the concentration can be increased if needed. After this the system is flushed and the crop is started.

Rep+(after I spread some)

Just out of curiosity, what is your feeding schedule?

 

[Serapis]

Yes it does, which is surprising, due to Ca being in the soup. Let me check my handy lock out guide....

Calcium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at pH levels of 2.0- 5.3
Calcium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at pH levels of 5.4-5.8

If Jim is not doing it yet, I recommend that he try to adjust PH by adjusting PPM...

We should also check Scotty's journal and see what kind of water he was using. Jim very well may need al-Mag.... I wish Scotty was watching this thread closer.... Maybe he went away on holiday?

 

[Megalith]

I'm not so sure it's calcium. It is after all just the bloom form which is probably high P and low N. I dont use it so it's an educated guess. When was the last res change? What is PH and PPM? If the res hasnt been changed since the start or within the last 4 weeks it could be that theyre using up all of and element. Then it wont matter what PPM is. I dont adhere to the 1 nute grow but thats just me. I'm not saying you cant, since Scott's grow did finish nicely. However, we all know they need nigh levels of N in veg and P in bloom. A 1 part nute cant address both. Another thing to consider is ph problems show on leaves. Has it been swinging widely?

 

[Serapis]

Good point on the Res change. Maybe it is just time.

My baby broke past the cotelydon stage and has her first node. I'm so proud

LOL

 

[jimbizzzale67123]

i lost my wwsbd braclet today, but I do have some micronutrient stuff from earthjuice its called like microblast or something else and its made for hydro, i just wanted to make sure i wasent burning the plant. i will be feeding here again tomorrow or the next day do you think a little bit of that micronutrient will hurt?

 

[Serapis]

I'd hate to tell ya to add it if the ppms are high.... How much water have you topped off with since the last reservoir change?

+REP

Jimbo now has two rep bars