White Widow Waterfarm. 1st Journal on the forums.

[legallyflying]

I'm in my second week of flower and my PPM's are at 1540. (30 ppm tap water). I'm using organic BC nutes though and they are less likely to burn. I would say 1300 would probably keep you nicely covered. My plants are gulping water however. Gallon or two a day.

Now which one of you is going to come over and water my plants when I'm gone for turkeyday?

 

[jimbizzzale67123]

man things are looking good jim. i just started flowering today well yesterday at 10pm. Was able to catch up on your journal and glad too cause i too was weaving, which seemed like it wasnt needed so that helped. i have a digi now but no cord or memory card (all internal). so until i get either a cord or card im stuck but its nice too see that even after your setback with the ww ur doing good excited to see how it goes

I cant wait to see, I will maybe weave the top nodes just once twords the end of their stretching I feel it will add a large amount support but yea its so much easier running them underneath the screen.

 

[jimbizzzale67123]

I'm in my second week of flower and my PPM's are at 1540. (30 ppm tap water). I'm using organic BC nutes though and they are less likely to burn. I would say 1300 would probably keep you nicely covered. My plants are gulping water however. Gallon or two a day.

Now which one of you is going to come over and water my plants when I'm gone for turkeyday?

I feel you on the gallon each day its amazing how fast they drink it up. Two years ago I would have been able to help you I lived in the rocky mountain High but I had too move back. I live in a whale now as you can see. I am runing at 900ppm according too the back I will pump it up next watering probably in like 3 days the way she drinks.

 

[legallyflying]

Sounds good. As someone else had commented earlier,make sure you have decent levels of nitrogen right now as they really need it in the stretch. Besides, that's what scottyballs did. scottyballs did it, hey did you see scottyball's grow? LOL

Next go around I'm going to increase the amount of grow ferts the week before and the first week of the stretch. Not a whole lot as they didn't show any signs of deficiency but some of my top growth looks a little pale. The trainwrecks jsut don't seem to like to be close to the lights but at this point, I don't really care a whole lot as they are still budding up really nice.

Important question..how much more room above the screen do you have to let them grow? I stopped training at day 9 of flower and at day 16, all the stems are maybe 6 inches above the screen. If I had to do it over, I would have let them go a little earlier to get at least a foot above the screen during flower formation. I have allot of flowers forming on the curved portions of the branches right at screen level. Not sure if the flowers will keep forming up the stem to make one large cola or if the flowers keep growing on the end of the stem...i.e. they get bigger only as they grow taller. My point, make sure you stop training in time to get them above the screen.

In terms of fans, I would mount the clip on fans to blow up through the bottom of the plants after they have stopped the stretch and you trim away the stuff under the screen. I have two large fans blowing my canopy pretty well but the main reason is that I'm using Co2 and I want to ensure good gas exchange at the leaf surface. (a small boundary layer of air develops around the surface of the leaf where Co2 levels will be lower than ambient if you don't exchange the air with "fresh" co2 laden air).

 

[Megalith]

hey dude,
Just wondering if you have a PH meter. Observation is the only way to keep up with your plants. You could get away with not having a PPM. But not a PH meter, otherwise you really dont know what their doing. Genreally, when PH goes down the nutes are to high. When it goes up theyre too low. You need to know if your grow is taking in more water than nutes or vice versa. When PH stablizes(stays the same) its dead on(the PPM). This and observing foliage is the only way to know in hydro. Heres the thing about over nuteing your plants. Not only do the leaves burn, so do the roots. Thats the worst thing because they stop taking in both H20/nutes or take in very little which kills your yield. Some of my grows dont get past 400 ppm and their just as big if not better than grows I've seen where the PPM is 1000 plus. Adjusting PPM is always the correction to be made. The PH gives you the details. I never adress PH I use it to tell me what to do with the PPM. If the PPM is wrong, the PH will go out and now their not taking in any nutes because it out of the range. A friend of mine has a bubbler. His PPM he would push hard. Always having to adjust PH because it swings when PPM is wrong. Anyway, he followed the system I use and had double the amount of roots which of course increased the yield.

 

[Serapis]

Nitrogen is very important during the stretch. I would def be at 1300 ppm with my nutes right now. I'm working on my last soil grow, got 4 3 gal pots under the screen and I pinched my main stems and laid down the tops. The reaction? The hormones went nuts, began repairing the pinched areas and every node on the main stems I pinched began branching out to form new tops. I'm doing this in week 2 of 12/12. I would have loved to have started sooner, however I had a batch finishing up flowering in the tent up until last Saturday. I'm hoping that the pinching will prolong the stretch with the rush of branching hormones being released by the plant. It's worth a shot.

 

[remi11]

hey dude,
Just wondering if you have a PH meter. Observation is the only way to keep up with your plants. You could get away with not having a PPM. But not a PH meter, otherwise you really dont know what their doing. Genreally, when PH goes down the nutes are to high. When it goes up theyre too low. You need to know if your grow is taking in more water than nutes or vice versa. When PH stablizes(stays the same) its dead on(the PPM). This and observing foliage is the only way to know in hydro. Heres the thing about over nuteing your plants. Not only do the leaves burn, so do the roots. Thats the worst thing because they stop taking in both H20/nutes or take in very little which kills your yield. Some of my grows dont get past 400 ppm and their just as big if not better than grows I've seen where the PPM is 1000 plus. Adjusting PPM is always the correction to be made. The PH gives you the details. I never adress PH I use it to tell me what to do with the PPM. If the PPM is wrong, the PH will go out and now their not taking in any nutes because it out of the range. A friend of mine has a bubbler. His PPM he would push hard. Always having to adjust PH because it swings when PPM is wrong. Anyway, he followed the system I use and had double the amount of roots which of course increased the yield.

My thoughts exactly I've had some people do the same and were ALWAYS adjusting ph which didn't seem right like my I'm 2 days into flowering and only around 400ppm but my ph is stable and they seem to be drinking water but the ppms stay about the same range so what ur saying to me makes perfect sense I always see people going crazy on nutes and don't understand I always thought less is better but iiii don't know

 

[Megalith]

I think it is better. Less is more. I read a paper done at the University of Colunbia I believe. Basically in the study they gave the same plants different nute levels as they grew. The results showed that even though they could handle the nutes didnt mean they should. The plant that had the lowest PPM grew faster and stronger. If I can find the link I'll post it, but I doubt it. It was about a year ago I read it.

I personally dont follow guides or labels. I introduce in small amounts and let the plants decide. I had over 24 inch cola's and my PPM was 400 in flower. I should add I flush after veg. It doesnt matter to me what number m PPM is. I'm just looking for stable PH, then I know I'm good to go.

 

[Serapis]

I think it is better. Less is more. I read a paper done at the University of Colunbia I believe. Basically in the study they gave the same plants different nute levels as they grew. The results showed that even though they could handle the nutes didnt mean they should. The plant that had the lowest PPM grew faster and stronger. If I can find the link I'll post it, but I doubt it. It was about a year ago I read it.

I personally dont follow guides or labels. I introduce in small amounts and let the plants decide. I had over 24 inch cola's and my PPM was 400 in flower. I should add I flush after veg. It doesnt matter to me what number m PPM is. I'm just looking for stable PH, then I know I'm good to go.

I may adapt your methods..... I like the simplicity.

 

[jimbizzzale67123]

Sounds good. As someone else had commented earlier,make sure you have decent levels of nitrogen right now as they really need it in the stretch. Besides, that's what scottyballs did. scottyballs did it, hey did you see scottyball's grow? LOL

Next go around I'm going to increase the amount of grow ferts the week before and the first week of the stretch. Not a whole lot as they didn't show any signs of deficiency but some of my top growth looks a little pale. The trainwrecks jsut don't seem to like to be close to the lights but at this point, I don't really care a whole lot as they are still budding up really nice.

Important question..how much more room above the screen do you have to let them grow? I stopped training at day 9 of flower and at day 16, all the stems are maybe 6 inches above the screen. If I had to do it over, I would have let them go a little earlier to get at least a foot above the screen during flower formation. I have allot of flowers forming on the curved portions of the branches right at screen level. Not sure if the flowers will keep forming up the stem to make one large cola or if the flowers keep growing on the end of the stem...i.e. they get bigger only as they grow taller. My point, make sure you stop training in time to get them above the screen.

In terms of fans, I would mount the clip on fans to blow up through the bottom of the plants after they have stopped the stretch and you trim away the stuff under the screen. I have two large fans blowing my canopy pretty well but the main reason is that I'm using Co2 and I want to ensure good gas exchange at the leaf surface. (a small boundary layer of air develops around the surface of the leaf where Co2 levels will be lower than ambient if you don't exchange the air with "fresh" co2 laden air).

I have 2ft too work with so I will let them stretch out to like 12in twords the end, I am going o play it by ear but I imagine I will be fine. I need to find a fan that will blow the top layer once they are in full flower. The bottom is windy as hell and I feel once the bottom fills out it will reduce the amount that breaks through to the top. The clip fans might be worthless I also have two 4in muffin fans that migh be more productive.

 

[jimbizzzale67123]

hey dude,
Just wondering if you have a PH meter. Observation is the only way to keep up with your plants. You could get away with not having a PPM. But not a PH meter, otherwise you really dont know what their doing. Genreally, when PH goes down the nutes are to high. When it goes up theyre too low. You need to know if your grow is taking in more water than nutes or vice versa. When PH stablizes(stays the same) its dead on(the PPM). This and observing foliage is the only way to know in hydro. Heres the thing about over nuteing your plants. Not only do the leaves burn, so do the roots. Thats the worst thing because they stop taking in both H20/nutes or take in very little which kills your yield. Some of my grows dont get past 400 ppm and their just as big if not better than grows I've seen where the PPM is 1000 plus. Adjusting PPM is always the correction to be made. The PH gives you the details. I never adress PH I use it to tell me what to do with the PPM. If the PPM is wrong, the PH will go out and now their not taking in any nutes because it out of the range. A friend of mine has a bubbler. His PPM he would push hard. Always having to adjust PH because it swings when PPM is wrong. Anyway, he followed the system I use and had double the amount of roots which of course increased the yield.

Ohhh yea I have a digital Ph meter I test it like 4 times a day, and most of the time my Ph was staying stable but now its kinda rising I guess I need to up the nutes a little next time? I will definitely invest in a PPM meter for the next time but I am just keeping a balanced Ph.

 

[jimbizzzale67123]

I think it is better. Less is more. I read a paper done at the University of Colunbia I believe. Basically in the study they gave the same plants different nute levels as they grew. The results showed that even though they could handle the nutes didnt mean they should. The plant that had the lowest PPM grew faster and stronger. If I can find the link I'll post it, but I doubt it. It was about a year ago I read it.

I personally dont follow guides or labels. I introduce in small amounts and let the plants decide. I had over 24 inch cola's and my PPM was 400 in flower. I should add I flush after veg. It doesnt matter to me what number m PPM is. I'm just looking for stable PH, then I know I'm good to go.

So basically as long as your Ph stays stable your plant is growing at its maximum ability relative to nutrients not c02 or anything. I will definitely focus on that it makes sense a plant can absorb more nutes even though it doesn't necessarily need or enjoy having the extra nutrients. Try and find that article I would love to read it.

 

[legallyflying]

I absolutely agree that less can be more as it was pointed out, you can't MAKE a plant uptake more nutrients. On the relationship between PH and PPM though, I'm not sure if I am sold on that one. I'm at 1500 PPM right now and my PH raises about 0.2 a day. So by the raising PH rational, I should raise the PPM even higher. This may be a function of the fact that it is harder to get an accurate PPM reading on organic nutes as they are not all electrically charged like their synthetic counterparts. There is also the added variable of microbial activity in the reservoir and its effect on PH.I was told once that a slowly raising PH was a good sign, it meant that the plants were taking up nutrients. The other variable I am dealing with is the curse of the hydroton. For whatever reason, when my hydroton dries out, it becomes more alkaline. One theory I have is that the flow cycles re-wetting the hydroton are slightly raising my ph.

I'm not trying to dismiss the notion of adjusting the PPM to stabilize PH, just trying to figure out what is going on. Why would the concentration of nutrients effect the PH? If you put more nutes in your PH would start lower.. but you would have to adjust. As the nutrients become depleted from the solution, then if theory holds true, your PH should rise. no? If this is the case, then perhaps OVER feeding your plants will stabilize the PH because the higher the concentration of nutrients, the smaller the proportion being used by the plants would equal less PH swing.

Any thoughts on how that process works?

 

[jimbizzzale67123]

I absolutely agree that less can be more as it was pointed out, you can't MAKE a plant uptake more nutrients. On the relationship between PH and PPM though, I'm not sure if I am sold on that one. I'm at 1500 PPM right now and my PH raises about 0.2 a day. So by the raising PH rational, I should raise the PPM even higher. This may be a function of the fact that it is harder to get an accurate PPM reading on organic nutes as they are not all electrically charged like their synthetic counterparts. There is also the added variable of microbial activity in the reservoir and its effect on PH.I was told once that a slowly raising PH was a good sign, it meant that the plants were taking up nutrients. The other variable I am dealing with is the curse of the hydroton. For whatever reason, when my hydroton dries out, it becomes more alkaline. One theory I have is that the flow cycles re-wetting the hydroton are slightly raising my ph.

I'm not trying to dismiss the notion of adjusting the PPM to stabilize PH, just trying to figure out what is going on. Why would the concentration of nutrients effect the PH? If you put more nutes in your PH would start lower.. but you would have to adjust. As the nutrients become depleted from the solution, then if theory holds true, your PH should rise. no? If this is the case, then perhaps OVER feeding your plants will stabilize the PH because the higher the concentration of nutrients, the smaller the proportion being used by the plants would equal less PH swing.

Any thoughts on how that process works?

Thats why I liked growing in soil with Organic nutes, it can get way to scientific with hydro and by scientific I mean expensive tools to measure everything to a T.

 

[Serapis]

I absolutely agree that less can be more as it was pointed out, you can't MAKE a plant uptake more nutrients. On the relationship between PH and PPM though, I'm not sure if I am sold on that one. I'm at 1500 PPM right now and my PH raises about 0.2 a day. So by the raising PH rational, I should raise the PPM even higher. This may be a function of the fact that it is harder to get an accurate PPM reading on organic nutes as they are not all electrically charged like their synthetic counterparts. There is also the added variable of microbial activity in the reservoir and its effect on PH.I was told once that a slowly raising PH was a good sign, it meant that the plants were taking up nutrients. The other variable I am dealing with is the curse of the hydroton. For whatever reason, when my hydroton dries out, it becomes more alkaline. One theory I have is that the flow cycles re-wetting the hydroton are slightly raising my ph.

I'm not trying to dismiss the notion of adjusting the PPM to stabilize PH, just trying to figure out what is going on. Why would the concentration of nutrients effect the PH? If you put more nutes in your PH would start lower.. but you would have to adjust. As the nutrients become depleted from the solution, then if theory holds true, your PH should rise. no? If this is the case, then perhaps OVER feeding your plants will stabilize the PH because the higher the concentration of nutrients, the smaller the proportion being used by the plants would equal less PH swing.

Any thoughts on how that process works?

If your PH is rising, your plant could use more nutrients. If the PH drops, you have too much in and should add water. It would be sweet if someone designed software for this... lol... As it is, i have to use my Outlook calendar to record ppm, ph and when I make adjustments. I would love to have a database set up that allowed you to upload pics, record stats, etc.

 

[Serapis]

Thats why I liked growing in soil with Organic nutes, it can get way to scientific with hydro and by scientific I mean expensive tools to measure everything to a T.

I wouldn't sweat it, your halfway there, a ppm meter is about $40. Mine was cheaper than my PH meter. Also, think of the results! When would you get 16 oz a single plant? Growing outdoors.... thats where... lol I look at it as an investment. That meter could net you a few extra oz PER GROW.

I need another fan too... all mine are floor fans. Are the 8" clip on fans worthless? I almost bough a few for cliping onto the tent poles.

 

[growalater]

I am growing 2 plants in waterfarm as well. Stop in and say hi. https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/380829-pineapple-express-kandy-kush-hydro.html

 

[jimbizzzale67123]

I wouldn't sweat it, your halfway there, a ppm meter is about $40. Mine was cheaper than my PH meter. Also, think of the results! When would you get 16 oz a single plant? Growing outdoors.... thats where... lol I look at it as an investment. That meter could net you a few extra oz PER GROW.

I need another fan too... all mine are floor fans. Are the 8" clip on fans worthless? I almost bough a few for cliping onto the tent poles.

I have 4in ones and they suck I guess they are ok in certain situations I just foresee a shit ton of buds so I want something to really get the air above the canopy moving.

 

[jimbizzzale67123]

Update Day 4 of flower

I noticed the new growth areas are a little light green hopefully they clear up I just feed them yesterday. I am pretty sure I spotted some pistels so I am waiting for more defined calaxes.

View attachment 1283901View attachment 1283906View attachment 1283907View attachment 1283908

 

[Megalith]

I absolutely agree that less can be more as it was pointed out, you can't MAKE a plant uptake more nutrients. On the relationship between PH and PPM though, I'm not sure if I am sold on that one. I'm at 1500 PPM right now and my PH raises about 0.2 a day. So by the raising PH rational, I should raise the PPM even higher. This may be a function of the fact that it is harder to get an accurate PPM reading on organic nutes as they are not all electrically charged like their synthetic counterparts. There is also the added variable of microbial activity in the reservoir and its effect on PH.I was told once that a slowly raising PH was a good sign, it meant that the plants were taking up nutrients. The other variable I am dealing with is the curse of the hydroton. For whatever reason, when my hydroton dries out, it becomes more alkaline. One theory I have is that the flow cycles re-wetting the hydroton are slightly raising my ph.

I'm not trying to dismiss the notion of adjusting the PPM to stabilize PH, just trying to figure out what is going on. Why would the concentration of nutrients effect the PH? If you put more nutes in your PH would start lower.. but you would have to adjust. As the nutrients become depleted from the solution, then if theory holds true, your PH should rise. no? If this is the case, then perhaps OVER feeding your plants will stabilize the PH because the higher the concentration of nutrients, the smaller the proportion being used by the plants would equal less PH swing.

Any thoughts on how that process works?

All very good questions. Unfortunately, I cant answer them all. I don't know enough about plant biology to give you an explantaion on exact processes but I'[m sure someone can.

As far as the PH rising slowly thats great. That falls into less is more. The natural process of photosythesis in hydro make the PH rise slightly.Exactly why, I cant tell you. It may be due to what the plants put out as waste. Again, I'm not sure. However, I am sure thats what they do, at least in all of my grows.

It also should be noted that the more plants you have the more PPMt can be raised. I dont think this part needs an explanation. I believe stable or slightly rasing is perfect. Slightly raising PH should mean there getting more nutes than H20. Which is fine, you just dont want it(PH) dropping. So, your correct, slightly raising is a great sighn. You will see that in the system of hydro the plants eventually stabalize themselves if the nutes arent to high.
I'm not by any means saying your grows need to have a low PPM. But what I am saying is they(my grows) do fine with it lower than I see in most. I am also trying to make sure it is understood that you "must" listen to your p[lants. This is the method I've found that does it best.

Over feeding( if you mean nutes) the Ph will drop if it's too high. There may be factors that change your system due to problems or generally things going wrong but the previous staements hold true. The other thing that can possibly causes wild swings is evapoation. If this isnt an issue then again the staements hold true.

Certain growth stages of the plant will show stability. Naturally theyre always growing and therefore should always need a little more nutes. Addressing the PPM is always the first correction. Of course you buffer your PH as well after, we need to be in range to gets nutes to the plant. However, when the PH swings widely, the PPM needs to be addressed otherwise it will just keep happening until it is corrected. I hope this helps. Just be sure that burning tips of leaves fro raising nute levels is not good and does damage under as well as above. Roots are just as important. So again, sometimes less is more.

I want to add the hydrotten is supposed to be neutral. It shouldnt be causing changes. Provided you treatted it coorectly with a presoak. I dont have all the answers. I'm learning more everyday just like all of you. If anyone has information that can prove this wrong I'd love to see it. I can adapt and love to learn. Everything I say is from what I've seen in my grows. Since we are all using simular techniques I think it has value. You can make your own judements.