Should some leafage be pruned to let light penetrate canopy

[OZUT]

This whole thing is almost amusing its so ridicules. I never post my yields with a mind set of bragging but rather t help illustrate just how wrong the real trolls are who do nothing but bash a proven method of growing... I am sure that is only lost on a few select "special" people but I thought I would clarify this anyway..... As for more people not posting its very simple. Its not the most popular and its always a heated debate. MOST people will avoid conflict. Most growers will figure other people can just keep growing less bud. I am stubborn and want to help people who want to shave years and years off their grows. I wasted years of growing and would love to help others avoid this. I'd love to know why anyone would think it is anything but to help fellow growers. It truly astonishes me.... You'd think I was trying to sell Advanced Nutrients on here or something... Car forums are the same way. If you dont take the most popular method of modding your car to get your car faster in the 1/4 mile people act this same exact way. It really rubs them the wrong way when you are going faster in the 1/4 mile with the same car and with half the money invested. Almost identical kinds of threads and responses from haters. So sad but oh well....

Do you not realize that the people arguing for pruning are almost always people that have less than a year experience actually growing? Do you not realize that it's people like you that spread bogus ideas and so called techniques and wow the starter growers with comical claims of high yields and the sort, then actually end up setting them back because they listened. The reason the seasoned growers give a shit and shoot down ideas like pruning fan leaves is to better educate the people that don't know better. Difference between you and them is they have facts and science to support their position. You have absolutely nothing to support anything you say other than your claims.

Here's a thought for you....Seeing how you have a lot of time on your hands and how you religiously defend your 'beliefs", why don't you start a journal with pictures and descriptions to at least try and support a fraction of what you claim instead of yapping away and regurgitating the same thing over and over again.

 

[Snow Crash]

There's a time and a place for everything. Defoliation doesn't belong in everyone's garden... Because not everyone is going to grow great plants. I learned to defoliate my plants 6 years ago from a guy I know in Santa Cruz who'd been growing his whole life. To claim that this method is somehow a noob trick (like starting your seeds in paper towels) is clearly to have little to no knowledge from the older generation. Then again, I know a guy in Gilroy who refuses to prune his plants. The both grow good shit though... So it's not like something to get all pissy about.

Want to see what a little defoliation does? It doesn't ruin the plant, it hardly even slows it down, and the stress reaction to produce even more foliage and increase side branch size is phenomenal.

View attachment 1260246View attachment 1260249
(pictures taken 16 days apart, reveged clones of Blue Mystic and Lemon Skunk)

Say whatever you want against the method. End of the day... Defoliation works exceptionally well in my garden. I couldn't care less if anyone else does it, or to what degree they do it. Far be it from me to tell someone how to grow their own. It also worked out for HumboldtLocal Outdoor 2010. Check out the pictures at the end on pages 63 and 64 (I think). This grower attributes some of his success to an absolute raping of his plants by some birds. Natural defoliation.

What it boils down to are people that have tried it and people who haven't. If you're too shmoe to pony up and grow an extra plant on the side for "experimental" purposes then your really just not at the place (experientially) to be making the claims I've read throughout.

The proof is in the pictures guys. The method works. Is it better? Is it worse? I dunno... Gives me something to do and it makes my plants crazy awesome bushes with tons of nodes when I incorporate a method like LST or Scrog with Defoliation. Do what you want, the "anti-theory" is bunk and the results are real. Both methods work fine, I'm looking forward to my increased yields though.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Do you not realize that the people arguing for pruning are almost always people that have less than a year experience actually growing? Do you not realize that it's people like you that spread bogus ideas and so called techniques and wow the starter growers with comical claims of high yields and the sort, then actually end up setting them back because they listened. The reason the seasoned growers give a shit and shoot down ideas like pruning fan leaves is to better educate the people that don't know better. Difference between you and them is they have facts and science to support their position. You have absolutely nothing to support anything you say other than your claims.

Excellent post, couldn't have said it better. These ditties of "education", romanticism and obsession with so-called "high tech new concepts", permeates this entire cannabis industry......from seeds to lights, nutes to mediums, additives to supplements. It's a frickin' joke that's played on the newbie that doesn't have a horticultural foundation to draw from, is confused and doesn't know which way to turn. So, the typical vendor or forum poster trying to look cool, uses what I call the "Formby" approach, a system that supposedly takes all of the pain and suffering out of "it" lol. May works on wood but not cellulose hehe.

UB

 

[Uncle Ben]

Well "amigo" I stated numerous times that I ave done MANY controlled side by side experiments.

And what university did you say your work for?

 

[purpdaddy]

I agree...but do what u know works for you. I top and supercropp..check those huge colas in my avatar.Its all in technique and style you prefer or what works best for u.

 

[Snow Crash]

Excellent post, couldn't have said it better. These ditties of "education", romanticism and obsession with so-called "high tech new concepts", permeates this entire cannabis industry......from seeds to lights, nutes to mediums, additives to supplements. It's a frickin' joke that's played on the newbie that doesn't have a horticultural foundation to draw from, is confused and doesn't know which way to turn. So, the typical vendor or forum poster trying to look cool, uses what I call the "Formby" approach, a system that supposedly takes all of the pain and suffering out of "it" lol. May works on wood but not cellulose hehe.

UB

So I take it you're going to conveniently ignore the fact that I've disproved everything you say here in the post above...

The "friken joke" would be the growers who joined here, and on other sites like ICMag and Grasscity, 2-3 years ago who I am utterly convinced are either mentally challenged or intentionally trying to sabotage new growers with bad advice. From what I can tell, most of these people all hail from some other MJ Forum that was closed down a few years ago and they all consider themselves to cool for school.

I'm sorry Uncle Ben. You're wrong here dude. There's a tremendous amount of evidence for pruning. If you choose to ignore that evidence then it's your own problem, but please don't try and make it sound like you're the noobs best friend advising against defoliation at all times.

There is a time and a place. And when applied appropriately it works GREAT!

 

[OZUT]

So I take it you're going to conveniently ignore the fact that I've disproved everything you say here in the post above...

!

Uhhh dude, all you did was post a well mannered comment saying that pruning works in your garden. How did that one post disprove everything?

You even said in the end of your post that you didn't know if it works or not

 

[Snow Crash]

Is that what I posted...
Good thing you're here to ignore where I learned the method from, when I learned it, and how long I've been growing myself (to refute the argument that this is a noob movement).

That is what has been the recent discussion and exactly what I was referring to.

I also stated that I like what I'm seeing in my own garden. Look at the pictures... If you haven't tried it out for yourself I just don't see how you could speak against it. Don't bash it 'till you try it, you know. (I dunno if you have tried it, but if you haven't then maybe you should give it a shot).

Seriously though, I have evidence for the method. I see very little evidence against outside of theory and hypothesis. Results. Scoreboard.

 

[OZUT]

I didn't ignore where you learned the method from or when or how long you been growing because it wasn't mentioned and I don't know. For every 1 of you that's been doing it a while, there are a thousand that are just starting and being wowed into this. Your post may have been in response to the recent discussion on here but mine was in general and not just the recent discussion. The link you posted doesn't prove anything either. That thread is for an outdoor grow with no pruning. The dude had some bad luck and a bunch of birds found their way into his garden and ate up some leaves and newly started seeds. All he said in that post is that he thinks the stress from the bird attack may have caused the seeds to sex early. Never in that entire thread did he say it increased his yield or anything defending or arguing for the removal of fan leaves. In fact, go towards the end of his thread and look at his trees. They're the biggest and healthiest trees you will find anywhere and they have every single leaf on them. They look like hedges.
As for trying it, I have tried it and on numerous occasions. Wouldn't call them experiments in that experimenting wasn't the purpose of that specific grow but I have done it on numerous occasions. I have taken the weakest plant that I would normally toss and did it to see if it would catch up and it didn't. I did it on a couple of the healthiest ones in the bunch to see if the difference would be noticable and it was the exact opposite. Those that started healthy and ahead became weak and fell behind the other smaller ones and my yields and quality suffered. I even to this day will sometimes fuck around with 1 or 2 plants but I have yet to yield more on a pruned plant than one with it's fan leaves. If it's got a place in your garden then that's great, you're doing something that's working for you and no one can hate on that or criticize you for growing the way you grow.
As for the recent discussions and for the heated arguments, it's really more Dlively's attitude than it is about removing leaves or not. It's like he's getting paid for this shit. Compare your post to any given post he's made. You come in and post your position and thoughts on the subject and do it respectfully. He bitches and moans like a 2 year old that's not getting his way. At the end of the day, people grow how they wanna grow, but to act like you're standing up for a cause or a method but really just trying to create drama and draw attention to yourself, I think it's pathetic and a waste of a lot of people's time which does nothing but confuse a lot of people that have very limited knowledge on growing in general.

 

[OZUT]

Seriously though, I have evidence for the method. I see very little evidence against outside of theory and hypothesis. Results. Scoreboard.

Photosynthesis and the purpose of leaves can hardly be considered a theory or a hypothesis. It's a fact. It's science. The purpose and function of a leaf has been proven on a scientific level. You can't get a more concrete fact than that. Those that argue science of the past proves nothing or that growing has evolved are basically saying that the function of a fan leaf has changed in the past couple of years. Yes, new discoveries are made every day. Some things do evolve and science does sometimes disprove something that has been proven in the past. This specifically is not one of them. A 100 pictures can't disprove it, let alone a kid making a claim of higher yields on a cannabis forum behind a computer.

 

[purpdaddy]

EXPAND THE MIND! Try new things! Personally i dont like taking anything away from my crop unless it 75% damage or im topping or sumthin lke that.Foliage removal works,ive seen it done,it can also screw u if u dont know what u doing and remove wrong parts.LOL i have never done the foliage removal but doesnt mean i wont give it a shot...just gotta know what to cut..my padna did the last grow like that and if wasnt a noob to hydro we would have gotten ALOT! But even he messed up i was still surprised with the results and got purp bud to smoke so im happy!

 

[jewgrow]

More misinformation. My pruned plants have a much higher percentage of quality buds then unpruned plants ever do. Growing nothing but colas INCREASES quality not decrease. My pictures speak for themselves and theirs, what little they post, speak for themselves. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize which one is producing more and which one is going to have more solid buds instead of popcorn buds you get letting plants go wild under a HPS light.

I urge you to read my comment again. I don't think it has much to do with the bud quality, but hey I could be wrong about my own opinion eh? Growing main colas increases quality.....right....'popcorn' buds don't contain all the same parts of the plant that the main colas do.

 

[purpdaddy]

The pruning the leaves thing came about when growers had a whole room full...well to see whats going on at the bottom they would trim,,,then it evolved into a style of growing to make the plant concentrate on certain colas.(old skool grower told me that)

 

[SOGfarmer]

i have a canopy that is almost 1 mtr wide
most of the branching was tied to grow sideways for most of its veg life so now i have alot of huge fan leaves across the canopy blocking out light
heres a couple pics

View attachment 1230818View attachment 1230820

should i prune a little bit of leafage back or not

Motto: If the leaf aint gettin any light, it aint helpinyour plant grow- I'd trim all the leaves not receiving any or much light.

 

[jewgrow]

Motto: If the leaf aint gettin any light, it aint helpinyour plant grow- I'd trim all the leaves not receiving any or much light.

Stored nutrients in plant tissue cannot help a plant grow whatsoever...I suspect SOG farmers have a high scientific knowledge of botany.

 

[themoose]

everything in moderation, Never trim off anything that is growing right out of anybuds, and personally I don't trim leaves that are in the way unless they are yellowed or necrotic because, as stated a Fan leaf has more surface area then a budsite-therefore having a higher photosynthetic value to the plant overall

good luck m8

-moose

 

[dlively11]

probably not, trolls never try and back up there techniques with actual knowledge, much less a grow off

Clearly another person who ignored EVERYTHING I posted LOL Few thousand plants and descrips along with pics dont mean shit clearly.

 

[dlively11]

Do you not realize that the people arguing for pruning are almost always people that have less than a year experience actually growing? Do you not realize that it's people like you that spread bogus ideas and so called techniques and wow the starter growers with comical claims of high yields and the sort, then actually end up setting them back because they listened. The reason the seasoned growers give a shit and shoot down ideas like pruning fan leaves is to better educate the people that don't know better. Difference between you and them is they have facts and science to support their position. You have absolutely nothing to support anything you say other than your claims.

Here's a thought for you....Seeing how you have a lot of time on your hands and how you religiously defend your 'beliefs", why don't you start a journal with pictures and descriptions to at least try and support a fraction of what you claim instead of yapping away and regurgitating the same thing over and over again.

The people asking about it are usually yes that is correct. People aruging for it are people like me with LOTS of grow experience and also getting very high yields. Do YOU realize that EVERY SINGLE super high yielding grow utilizes pruning in one form or another? Guess not ... I DID posts lots of pics and have posted lots of facts and descriptions but some are just too busy arguing to see this. WTF kind of "proof" do you need. Thats just silly. ANYONE who knows ANYTHING about growing indoors can take a pretty close guess as to how much the plants yield that I posted. 20 inch 5 inch thick cola. Not all that hard. Tray full of them. Easy math for most. WTF is all the proof everyone else is posted ? NIOTHING but lectures and quotes from ancient books.

 

[jewgrow]

Clearly another person who ignored EVERYTHING I posted LOL Few thousand plants and descrips along with pics dont mean shit clearly.

Pics and description dont...I can show you a picture of my plant and say it got 1 ounce and show somebody and tell them i got 8 whats the difference

 

[dlively11]

Pics and description dont...I can show you a picture of my plant and say it got 1 ounce and show somebody and tell them i got 8 whats the difference

Right so exactly what kind of proof is there on a forum if detailed pictures of individual plants , the room ,trays and every detail about the grow don't count ? Sorry but this is all anyone can provide on a forum end of story. As for my pics you can see the size 18-20 inches and a good 4-5 inches thick solid from top to bottom. A very low guess would be 20 grams dry. The ones I posted averaged 30 grams. UB says it needs to be some super study for him to consider having any validity at all. Simply put that is ridicules. He and others in here dont beleive in SCROG or Lollipo either which are also PROVEN to work. Both require MAJOR defoliation. There is a time and place for it and anyone who doesn't see this is either arrogant or blind. Its not some conspiracy to remove leaves lol. I just dont get this kind of attitude to something that is proven to work and work very very well. ANYONE in doubt of this just needs to grow4-12 plants at per foot and see for themselves what works and what doesnt. In order to fit that many plants in you HAVE to remove leaves no if ands or buts. The reason to stuff that many plants in is to create a VERY full and even canopy of pure buds hence increasing yields. It works just like SCROGing works and LOLLIPOP works. It really isnt as complicated as many of the people in here are making it out to be.