ElectricPineapple
Well-Known Member
dlively, your the definition of a troll. i dont even want to share knowledge with you, because your DUMB. sorry
Should some leafage be pruned to let light penetrate canopy
- Thread starter odlaw
- Start date
OZUT
Active Member
Everyone here is a big boy (or at least they should be) and don't need a self elected spokesman defending them and picking fights in every thread with the same people and with the same argument. You're not going to get through to them just as they're not going to get through to you. What you call "advanced technique" is really nothing more than elementary and your way of growing is not going to apply to everyone and most of the people don't care much either. Those that care will make it known. Those that don't, don't need someone lecturing them. Just as you're "experimented", so have I and a lot of the people you claim are stuck in the 70's. I've pruned all my leaves and compared it to the ones I left alone. The ones with their fan leaves yielded almost double what the pruned ones did. I can argue experiments and so can you. I can also argue science while all you can do is post up the same picture again. You see my point? This will never end, so just let it go man.
As for your set up, if you're yielding what you claim to be, then good for you. You found what works for you and you're sticking to it. But the pictures you put up are not a 7 lighter set up with 448 plants...and no, I don't need pictures or any of that stuff. I really could care less how many lights and plants you're running.
Just keep your arguments respectful man...I know we've all lost our cool once or twice before, I know I have and have said some stuff that I shouldn't have, but that's life. In your case, you just raise hell everywhere you go. Not cool man.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I'll say it again amigo, when you can provide an unbiased, non-partisan, professional series of field tests using a control group which measures such data as weights of leaf matter removed, the cause/effect yield relationship, etc. then I might give you the benefit of the doubt. Again, all I've seen from you is emotionally driven anecdotal posts and photos showing what looks to me like a lot of foliage in spite of your pruning efforts.
Also, you guys loosely throw around forum buzzwords like "yield per light" without defining anything concrete about the "light" quality. Are YOU talking about CFL's, HO fluors, HID's in a parabolic rust bucket hood or highly sophiscated hood design of spectral aluminum? What about the quality and placement of reflecting panels (which can add up to 30% more light to all levels), etc.?
Again, I have been growing all kinds of production type plant material for decades - fruit trees, berries, grape vines, cannabis, orchids, nut trees, roses, annuals, vegetables, turf and it's a no-brainer - the amount of production of flowers or fruit is directly related to the amount of healthy foliage up to and during harvest AND the amount of light actually received and effectively processed in the chloroplasts, another fact you guys seem to want to dismiss. Get a light meter that registers to 10K f.c., a PAR meter if you're that anal, and remove all doubt.
Just because you are happy with your yields, your feelings have no factual bearing on what you think is directly related to your leaf removal drills. Could be related to plant nutrition, combination of temps and water, or other factors.
You have no control group, you have no third party, unbiased, professional journaling your op nor making sure you are embracing sustainable scientific standards of control, etc. You are human - you are doing what we all do - you see what you want to see, you see what you expect to see, you see what others have politically pressured you to see. And if you think another cannabis forum MJ nerd gimmick is "advanced".....I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'll sell to ya.....cheap.
IOW, one can not take such threads seriously, not if you're a clear thinker and of a scientific mind.
Good luck,
Uncle Ben
.
Well "amigo" I stated numerous times that I ave done MANY controlled side by side experiments. Full SOG table with 64 plants on one tray and another right next to it. Plants with no leaf removal yielded less then half what the others did. I did this in two different rooms and swapped the trays to rule out lighting etc as well. Same strains same nutes same everything. My yields are very consistent not a fluke. 60 plants per tray is a lot of plants to compare. Not like doing a few big plants where flukes are more likely. Having growm literally thousands of plants the other way and having grown thousands this way I'd say its safe to say my "feeling" arent a factor here. Max yield I got in the previous FOUR YEARS was 1.5 lbs per light. MAX yield in the last year since going to full SOG and removing leaves 3.5 lbs per light. As for the leaves, yes there are a lot of leaves. Removal of leaves happens at week 3 of bloom. Not before and almost none afterwards. Saying this is my opinion/feelings etc is like saying its my opinion that I am going 60 MPH when I see my speedo at 60 MPH. Makes little to no sense. Nice job sneaking in your normal expected troll like name calling. More pot calling the kettle black. Well this "nerd" grows more utilizing this technique then yourself, judge it how you like. LOTS of other people use the same method with the same results. Go figure......I'll say it again amigo, when you can provide an unbiased, non-partisan, professional series of field tests using a control group which measures such data as weights of leaf matter removed, the cause/effect yield relationship, etc. then I might give you the benefit of the doubt. Again, all I've seen from you is emotionally driven anecdotal posts and photos showing what looks to me like a lot of foliage in spite of your pruning efforts.
Just because you are happy with your yields, your feelings have no factual bearing on what you think is directly related to your leaf removal drills. Could be related to plant nutrition, combination of temps and water, or other factors.
You have no control group, you have no third party, unbiased, professional journaling your op nor making sure you are embracing sustainable scientific standards of control, etc. You are human - you are doing what we all do - you see what you want to see, you see what you expect to see, you see what others have politically pressured you to see. And if you think another cannabis forum MJ nerd gimmick is "advanced".....I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'll sell to ya.....cheap.
IOW, one can not take such threads seriously, not if you're a clear thinker and of a scientific mind.
Good luck,
Uncle Ben
.
Oh and the reason you dont see more people posting in favor of this is because they are sick and tired of the same guys coming in bashing their grows. It gets old quick. I stick to what I know for a fact that works. They can stick to what they dont know because they haven't tried it botanical scientific guesses.
sk'mo
Active Member
Well, Guys? Let's see it. Work out a methodology, and start a study. Shouldn't be too hard for two growing aficionados. Post results and we'll have proof of which way is most effective.
I wouldn't suggest weighing removed material, rather you ought to determine specific criteria for removing leaves. With both parties using a control plant, differences in material, strains, or environment should not matter.
How 'bout it?
420God
Well-Known Member
Hell yeah!!!!! For as long as you guys have been arguing you could've switched to 12/12 by now.
smokeymcpotz
Well-Known Member
DAAAAMN good idea.lol So? How 'bout it?
OZUT
Active Member
That's just it, all you've ever done is "state" things and make claims. Nothing more. You put up a picture and expect everyone to buy into your claims then start bitching and taking jabs at people when they don't. Here's how I look at it.
- You "claim" to have done MANY controlled side by side experiments. Yet you have nothing documented. Someone that actually goes out of his way to experiment will definately document it for reference, let alone someone that claims to have done MANY.
- You claim to pull 3.5 pounds per light and expect everyone to buy into your claim just because you post a picture of a cola.
- You claim to run 7 lights, but none of your pictures show anything close to a 7 light set up.
- You claim to do 6 plants per square feet yet none of your pictures support it.
- You claim to be running over 400 plants yet again, none of your pictures support that, not to mention your constant presence on this site is an indication that you have a lot of time on your hands for someone claiming to be growing and experimenting as much as you are.
- In another thread you're claiming to be getting 4k a pound for your outdoor grow which is complete BS and just shows that you have no idea what the market pulls. You're either selling to someone that doesn't know shit, which would only happen once or twice, or you're completely blowing smoke.
- In yet another thread you claim to have experimented and compared 3 different brands in a side by side experiment. In reality, all you did was use 3 different bases and ignored the fact that you left out everything else that given brand comes with. My point with this, is you're not the most honest or reliable person when it comes to experiments.
Have you noticed that not a lot of people are not taking you serious anymore? You really are the text book definition of a troll. And I am not saying any of this stuff to insult you or pick a fight.
Well just when the dust started settling a little you start up.... I think you need to read a lot more carefully. I havent posted a single thing in ANY thread that isnt accurate 100%.
Sorry if I didnt do a proper internet comparison for you. Side by side tables clearly dont mean anything.
I have pulled 3.5 off a tray with Fruity Chronic only . Others range from 2.5 to 3. I made that very clear in my posts a long time ago. I posted not only pics of single colas but trays full of the same huge single colas illustrating how the leaf removal did not hurt my yields.
Now you are picking on a picture because I didnt get all 7 lights in one pic for you to see ? Seriously? Wow okay... I have 5 lights in one long narrow room that pics were taken in and 3 in another small room. So I actually have 8 now. Guess I was caught lying once again..... Really decided to try and pick at the thin air on this one but whatever ...
I never claimed 6 plants I claimed 4 plants per SQ foot. Lots of my pics support that actually. I also stated I shoot for 64 per light but sometimes it is 50. I just pulled a tray at 60 plants per light with a 19 gram average dried and cut yield. Not a heavy yielder but still netted just over 2.5 lbs WITHOUT CO2.. The only strain I can get 3 or more lbs is Fruity Chronic. Notice how I actually share specific info ? That is because I am trying to help people out not BS them as you are now insinuating....
I spend about 30 min on this site a day wow ...... I only need about 2 hours a day in the rooms and a few for cutting ....
4K I think I stated up to 4K but mostly 3.5. The club I have dealt with for over 4 years has never paid differently for outdoor verse indoor as long as the quality was the same which it is on mine. No other club does this and I never said they did. I even stated I guess I was lucky. This year all the other clubs are giving 2.2 to 2.8 and my old time club is only going up to 3.2. Different market this year.
As for the 3 brands. Yes I did a experiment with 3 brand nutes and used their base nutes which are 90% or more of what you put in the tank. Pretty damn fair if you ask me. All the additives were EXACTLY the same. Tell me how this is not fair ? For AN and H&G I did actually run rounds with their full overpriced lineup to boot prior to doing the tests I posted about giving them more then a fair chance.
There is no EGO thing involved for me at all. I post results very much like others post utilizing the same exact technique. The actual trolls come in and bash this method and try to insult our intelligence. So my defending my position is somehow considered being a troll now ? Seriously bro you have some of your wires on backwards if you honestly believe this. I know you like to hang on these guys sacks but really this is too much. ... Yeah they have good grows and the like to quoate science and books from the 70s and early 80s. NOTHING at all has changed in the realm of growing higher quality and higher volume MJ indoors since then... lol I never once claimed credit for getting my results I get. I stated very clearly I copied other growers who had the same results growing this way which is the only reason I ever tried it to begin with. LOTS of other people do this and get over 1.5 grams per watt. I think its fantastic and find it insane that anyone could come in and disrespect growers achieving these results the way they do. They are the ones with a huge ego and cant stand the thought of someone getting better results then they do utilizing a techinique they dont agree with. Would bug me too but instead of arguing about it I would ask questions and listen in order to better my grow. Should be clear that I am tying to help people who are willing to listen and not get blinded by certain people who like to sound like they know everything there is to know. WTF would I go through all this hassle otherwise ?
Now please reattach yourself and swing away from those two.. =)
Well I have answered this MANY times but clearly you werent paying attention. Plants need leaves, no kidding. I am not stupid and I do realize this despite how others try to portray this method of growing. During the first 3 weeks of bloom the plant is stretching and not in full bloom mode yet. Also the plants arent overcrowded at all at first so there is no reason to remove them yet. I start plucking them at 14 days but do a huge removal at 21 days. As one of my haters pinted out there are still lots of leaves on there. The large fan leaves the ones that stretch out away from your pot are removed. Not every single leaf. No one ever said or implied all leaves were removed. Plant would die if you did that. not very helpful I do pull some leaves after week 3 but very few as it isnt needed if you remove enough by week three. The plants dont grow much in the way of fan leaves after week 3 in bloom. The whole idea is to get a tray full of nice thick dense colas and ZERO wasted growth. Hench maximizing your growth. Yes its a PITA and no I dont love having to deal with it but it gives much higher yields for me then when I grew without removing them or with larger plants. LEaves are VERY important but overgrowth of leaves is not. Just like SCROG or lollipop. Full SOG , a proven way to get huge yields for your space, benefits greatly by doing this. Hell even 2 plants per foot it would help a lot let alone 4. Its a ton of plants. Yes its a PITA but not much more then larger plants really. Instead of using 3 gallon pots I use little 5 inch pots. so about the same amount of medium is used just a way to get a even canopy of buds making it as efficient as possible. Having no veg time in the trays maximizes it greatly as well.
I just dont get all the hate from some people when people try and share their own personal knowledge. Sad thing especially for a pot forum.....
Here is my 4X8 table with 2 lights and 80 plants on it, as I stated it is hard to keep them all full so sometimes I have to let them get bigger like these and do fewer then I would like. These are also only 3 or 4 DAYS or so into bloom. Can you imagine how overcrowded it would get as they triple in size over the next three weeks ??? I try to hit 100 on this tray sometimes I get more sometimes less. 128 would be perfect but my veg areas isnt able to keep up just yet.
Some of my "low quality" bud up close
And yes I can grow big plants too =)
OZUT
Active Member
Read what more carefully? If anyone has read 1 of your posts, they've basically read everything you have to say on the subject of growing and based on your attitude, everything you'll ever have to say on the subject. All your posts are basically the same thing - "I get 3 pounds per light by growing 60 plants in a SOG set up and removing the fan leaves at day 21 1/4 into flower" Then you go on and on about your so called "experiments" then start bashing people, then, usually about 8 or 10 posts in, you post up a picture of a cola then start rambling about how you've just revolutionized growing and proven science wrong simply because you posted a picture of a cola. WOW!!!!!! Then when everyone starts calling you a dick, you start rambling about how you're the defender of the the free thinkers and the ones that can't speak for themselves. You then become a self appointed spokesperson for this group and your "I's" become "we's"....
None of the pictures you posted prove anything you've said. As for you not spending a lot of time online in this forum and your claim that you're on here for about 30 minutes a day. All I gotta say is that your sense and track of time is more fucked then your knowledge of growing. Anyone posting something in a thread you're subscribed to is guaranteed a response from you within the half hour
Give it a rest man...Go grow your 50 pounds every 2 months and just be happy. You could use that $3,200 a pound you get for your outdoor crop to buy yourself some happiness. Every thread with you in it is like a Jerry Springer episode. All scripted and predictable.
None of the pictures you posted prove anything you've said. As for you not spending a lot of time online in this forum and your claim that you're on here for about 30 minutes a day. All I gotta say is that your sense and track of time is more fucked then your knowledge of growing. Anyone posting something in a thread you're subscribed to is guaranteed a response from you within the half hour
Give it a rest man...Go grow your 50 pounds every 2 months and just be happy. You could use that $3,200 a pound you get for your outdoor crop to buy yourself some happiness. Every thread with you in it is like a Jerry Springer episode. All scripted and predictable.
Again reading comprehension is your friend. Try it sometime because you just failed miserably . Wow just wow...... I did a hell of a lot more then post a pic of a cola. I posted lots of pics and detailed info on how the grow was done. Did you even bother to read my above posts ?? LOL I guess not. How do you argue with someone when you are only looking at half of what they post ? I clearly didnt take credit for ANYTHING, if you could actually read and understand everything I write you would see I gave others the credit completely. My pictures prove a whole hell of a lot more then you or you two BFF's ever have. I guess you are just another low yielding hater. Use your own advise and move on because you are just acting like a fool now.. its just getting silly.
FYI it doesn't take me an hour to read and post like it might take some people I guess.... LOL
Peace
OZUT
Active Member
You just don't get it....I'll try to simply it for you....You are on these boards so often, that anyone that posts anything on a thread that you are subscribed to is guaranteed to get a response back from you within the hour" That doesn't mean it takes you an hour to read or respond it means you have too much time on your hands and have nothing to do all day but post mindless garbage on a forum.
Now honestly, how hard was it for you to restrain yourself from replying immediately after my post?
Okay, I'll leave you to your trolling now.
lol, actually it was lost on you not me, pretty funny. I got your simplistic original post but you sure were lost on my reply. Here I'll simplify it for you .... I was making fun of the fact that you think it takes so much time to sit down read and reply to a post. Only takes a long time if you are "slow" if you know what I mean..... I come in and spend 5 minutes 5-6 times a day big deal.... nice way to misdirect the topic at hand though since you clearly didnt make any sense on your previous posts......
This whole thing is almost amusing its so ridicules. I never post my yields with a mind set of bragging but rather t help illustrate just how wrong the real trolls are who do nothing but bash a proven method of growing... I am sure that is only lost on a few select "special" people but I thought I would clarify this anyway..... As for more people not posting its very simple. Its not the most popular and its always a heated debate. MOST people will avoid conflict. Most growers will figure other people can just keep growing less bud. I am stubborn and want to help people who want to shave years and years off their grows. I wasted years of growing and would love to help others avoid this. I'd love to know why anyone would think it is anything but to help fellow growers. It truly astonishes me.... You'd think I was trying to sell Advanced Nutrients on here or something... Car forums are the same way. If you dont take the most popular method of modding your car to get your car faster in the 1/4 mile people act this same exact way. It really rubs them the wrong way when you are going faster in the 1/4 mile with the same car and with half the money invested. Almost identical kinds of threads and responses from haters. So sad but oh well....
ElectricPineapple
Well-Known Member
hey OZUT, save your fingers the trouble. he is a TROLL. whatever you say, he is still going to argue with you, as that is what trolls do.
ElectricPineapple
Well-Known Member
probably not, trolls never try and back up there techniques with actual knowledge, much less a grow off