LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

[pr0fesseur]

So when i decided to grow i started with a 400W hps and MH conversion bulb. I put up my tent and it was problem after problem. With the generous help from the people here i decided to throw away my setup and start from scratch. I purchased the Quantum Badboy 8 lamp T5. I started with the standard 6500k bulbs with some success. I wanted to buy an LED light but didnt have the money. So... i was at my buddies house and he has a LARGE aquarium and he showed me his bulbs..it clicked.. corals need light too and his lights produced the EXACT spectrum corals need to live and are capable of penetrating 3'+ of water. well corals and plants are very similar as they use the EXACT same light spectrum. Digging deeper i found bulbs that produce 410-460nm and 620-660 nm light.. That is also Exactly what LEDs put out..now putting one plus one together i decided to do a small test.. i bought 2 2' t5 lights ATI AND UVL Blue plus and Super Actinic. Explosive growth followed. i couldent believe my eyes. I was told on 4 different forums that actinic bulbs DO NOT WORK FOR plants boy were they really wrong!. i ahve since gone 100% T5 with various bulbs producing only yhe light spectrum that plants need. As you can see my plants are doing AMAZING for being grown with Actinic bulbs.2 of my bulbs are missing as they were broken upon arrrival. I will be changing out some of the blue bulbs with the deep red ones i found for flowering..they produce ONLY 630-660nm light. no other spectrum so i get 100% PAR. top that with MH...now i know what your thinking these lights are not bright at all... well its not about lumens.the human eye response isphotosynthetic is , so your eyes do not see ALL the light these bulbs output. hardcore believers will flame me but let the math and the facts be known.HPS BULBS View attachment 1101469 Anyone notice a pattern here???? Lumens are not the ending factor to bud growth or you could not grow with LED. my sample grow i netted 1oz on a plant with only 116w. If your still in disbelief consider this, chect the spectrum charts for your coveted 3000k bulbs and overlay it with your chlorophyll response charts.. youll notice MOST of the light these bulbs prodice is outside the chloraphyll A+B peaks... now place the spectrums of my lights and overlay them...100% match.. seems to me im doing something right?

 

[9867mike777]

Where do you get "Super Actinic" bulbs?

 

[Wudaheo]

From looking at that chart.. Instead of paying $20ea for the actinic bulbs which i think are only around 400-600nm wavelength .. wouldn't it be cheaper to get just to get the $7ea full spectrum t5 bulbs since it has the blue & red spectrum that plants mostly need?

 

[pr0fesseur]

Ok lets do some math shall we? View attachment 1102455 here is two bulbs a common GE gow bulb and EYE hortilux MH bulb. now lets discuss what were looking at. You see the peaks in the 500 range? plants are NOT sensitive to green or yellow light spectrum so thats wasted lumens. Now those peaks are the percentage of light output at that spectrum. based on that analysis a LARGE majority of light is wasted $$$ wasted on unnecessary lumens. now look at the actinic bulbs.View attachment 1102486 Now do we see where im going with this? notice that any light that is output in the 480 to 600nm is pretty much wasted light? nuff said.

 

[pr0fesseur]

Where do you get "Super Actinic" bulbs?

ever heard of google?

 

[pr0fesseur]

i purchased the following...
UVL Red sun 630nm
UVL 454nm
UVL Super Actinic peaks at 420nm
ATI Pro Color 660nm
KorallenZucht peaks at 630 and 440nm
i got all my bulbs from various aquarium supply stores. These bulbs are designed to supply hardbody and softbody corals with sunlight in the correct spectrum AND penetrate water up to 5' deep...these bulbs have been on the market for longer than any "grow" bulbs and have more worldwide research put into them. if you have any doubts read about PUR and PAR values and how these lights can provide 90-100% of the light plants need..without wasting light on the "yellow" spectrums. corals like plants use sunlight to provide energy, and grow.

 

[Magnificient]

A very impressive post. Here's some rep for your thoroughness.

 

[RobertInAz]

I'm way impressed. Are the fixtures and/or bulbs either HO or VHO? And how long have you been using these lights?

 

[pr0fesseur]

all these bulbs are ho.. vho bulbs are actually LESS efficient and $ for $ not worth it. i shouldent need to post proof but can if need be...VHO bulbs are just overdriven HO bulbs and you can overdrive all these bulbs with an ATI ballast....ask for links if needed.

 

[victhaog]

impressive.....this is a new type of grow for me to see.... +rep my friend

 

[Wudaheo]

Keep us updated with the grow. From my experience.. I disagree with using actinic lighting because it cost 3x more for the bulbs and your results would no better then standard bulbs. I used my t5 from my mini reef tank before with actinics/aqua blue+. It did okay but 6500k bulbs did better during veg stage.

btw not all corals are the same. Only some corals benefit from actinic lighting and the corals that do need lighting grow faster under 6000k daylight bulbs but it looks ugly.. So most people use actinic for aesthetic and not their main light source.

 

[RobertInAz]

Hi Professeur,
I'm thinking of trying your system ... do you have any thoughts on whether or not a couple of 4 tube x 48" Bad Bays are a better deal at $285 than the same thing in a Sun Blaze for $220?
Thanks again, Robert

 

[Wudaheo]

Hi Professeur,
I'm thinking of trying your system ... do you have any thoughts on whether or not a couple of 4 tube x 48" Bad Bays are a better deal at $285 than the same thing in a Sun Blaze for $220?
Thanks again, Robert

If you want similar design to the quantum badboys you can get the 6 bulb htg slimstar for $210 w/bulbs shipped but has 1yr warrantly. The sun blaze doesn't have individual reflectors but has 5yr warranty and they really quick on replacements. Not sure about the quantum warranty since they seem like a new company?

 

[RobertInAz]

Hi Wudaheo,
Thanks for the info. I've been researching the aquarium bulbs that the Professeur mentioned, but there doesn't seem to be many people who have used them, but apparently you have. Why do you say that "your results would be no better than standard bulbs"? Did you grow a crop with them and also a crop with T5 units regular bulbs?
Thanks again, Bob

 

[Wudaheo]

Hi Wudaheo,
Thanks for the info. I've been researching the aquarium bulbs that the Professeur mentioned, but there doesn't seem to be many people who have used them, but apparently you have. Why do you say that "your results would be no better than standard bulbs"? Did you grow a crop with them and also a crop with T5 units regular bulbs?
Thanks again, Bob

I was using giesemann T5 HO actinics+ during vegg stage before but not for entire stage. If you want to try it out note there are several different types of actinic bulbs. I believe the pure actinic 03 have very low intensity so don't get that. Get the ones that are mixed like actinic+, actinic white, super actinic..etc. But i still think its its waste of money. If actinics were that useful for plants lots of company's would relabel the reef bulbs as plant bulbs right? I'm sure there's a lot more people into growing plants indoors then people with a plant/reef tank. You will do fine with t5ho bulbs like spectralux by sunlight supply.

In the end its all about what you use for flowering to get the big buds right??

 

[RobertInAz]

Thanks again, Wudaheo, for your wise counsel. I'll give them a try and report back.
All the best, Bob

 

[Lightworker]

This is gonna be a hot thread indeed!

 

[RobertInAz]

Re: In the end its all about what you use for flowering to get the big buds right??, I was thinking that if the actinic pure blue spectrum bulbs worked for the veg stage, then the Red Sun pure red spectrum bulbs would work for the flowering stage, using the Professeur's same logic.

 

[RobertInAz]

Hey Professeur,
You still here? What are your thoughts re: what Wudaheo said about mixed vs. pure actinic? And about the fact that if these actinic bulbs grow better than regular T5s, they would have been used long before now? Thanx again, Bob

 

[RobertInAz]

You know, I just smoked a little bowl and i was thinking about this and I had one of those thoughts that you sometimes get when you're stoned and you figure that later you'll see -- in the clear logic of the unstoned state -- that the thought you had was retarded. But I'm going to put it out here anyway, and hopefully we're all about equally stoned and it won't sound stupid. At any rate, somewhere here in the Forum one of the experts was saying that plants use light spectra in the blue and red zones, and the spectrum that they don't use is the green, hence their green color. They absorb everything except the green, which they reflect, which is why we can see it. (My girlfriend just walked by with no cloths on. She says I shouldn't get stoned today since we have things to do, but I figure that I can do both. She also says I shouldn't get stoned since it makes me forgetful and I lose my focus and train of thought, but that's ridiculous.)
Now, what was I talking about? Oh, yeah,... I was thinking about this: if plants only reflect green, what would happen if you had one of the Professeur's pure blue bulbs, turned all other lights out, and then turned the blue one on. Would you be able to see the plants?
Anyway, with a naked girl in the room I just decided that this idea no longer has any interest for me, but I've pretty much typed the whole thing so I might as well post it.
All the best, Bob