Yeah almost all numbers in those things are garbage, that guy should have just assumed that. But he was right in pointing out it was garbage.
Ill give you that, the numbers are jacked. The whole underlying point is to show you that illegal immigrants are able to use services that legal american citizens aren't able to use because they make too much money. But the legal citizen ends up spending more for the same services and can end up making less money in the long run than an illegal immigrant.
I will use your example about how stupid it is to think that these people are hurting anything.
1. Anyone can do what he is doing, working under the table is something that is not just left to illegal immigrants, any kid can do those jobs in high school and totally get away with it, as well as any adult that is on hard times.
That would depend on the employer's willingness to break the laws which is why employers need to be regulated.
2. Assuming that with two jobs and those wages he works about 40 hours at the busing job, and what maybe 20? for the other, meaning about 31k a year from busing (Not a chance in hell but we roll with it) and 12k a year from construction work, adding up to 43k a year. Meaning if that was someones take home pay it would have to have been 55k a year and ten taken out for taxes (43k * 1.25 = (about 53k) for federal (53k * 1.0336(AZ state tax) = $55k (just under).
He works full time both jobs
3. You say he bought a new ford truck, so either he paid in cash for it, or he took out a loan, with no real documents (DL or otherwise) unless he is using a stolen id, which doesn't matter, the money still has to get to the dealership before he gets it right? So right there is about 30k back into our economy. Take it he needs to eat right? So lets go real cheap at about $200 a month in food, with a truck that big about $100 a month easy in gas right? Rent figure about $400 for the cheapest places. So assuming that he only spends an additional $150 for everything else (which with the truck he drives is highly doubtful that all these numbers are even close to what he spends(like insurance for that truck)) that would mean that at least $10k a year goes directly into the hands of different businesses in your area.
More backround on Louis: he and his 2 brothers live with his aunt and don't pay rent (they live in what was a 2 car garage that they added on to and turned into a little guest house type of deal on his aunts property)... Also, whenever they need to buy a vehicle or do anything that requires paperwork or id's, their aunt gets it for them since she is legal. His aunt has been here legally for a long time. When Louis was a kid, his parents got him and his brothers accross the border to their aunt and they stayed behind in Mexico with the rest of his brothers and sisters. Him and his brothers send half of the money they make back to their family.
Add to that the $30k truck purchase (Dealerships are large contributors to local economies), and since you mentioned that you are a college educated person with a good job, and he lives nearby he most likely spends far more than that.
I honestly couldn't tell you exactly what he spends, he sells a lot of cocaine on the side too, so for all i know he could be putting 30k a year back in the economy and sending a lot more back to Mexico.
So by removing him, your community is losing out on that buying power. And maybe someone decides to be a bus boy and someone else becomes a part time laborer, but yeah that doesn't mean that they are going to hire a worker for those jobs. If the business owner is shady, or crappy at paper work, or just doesn't want to take on the added costs of a documented worker, they will likely just pass on them.
He employs legal workers too. He starts them at about 10 dollars an hour to compensate for the extra taxes he pays on them.
Especially because most busboys just work off tips (and am willing to be that almost every waiter and busboy in the us doesn't pay the taxes they should on the money they collect, so is this even really an illegal thing?)from the waiters that they clear tables for, it is just easier for them not to hire and leave it up to the waiters to clear more. But even there, you can see how if the tables are not cleared as fast they will not be cleared as fast, and that means less revenue for the business due to longer wait times and people choosing to go somewhere else.
He is there to be a janitor but he busses tables too if they are busy. He doesn't get tips, the owner of the bar and grill just pays him flat rate.
4. And lets look at how 'good' behavior that this bill is supposed to do affects the contractor. The contractor that uses his labor may find that with having to pay $20-$30 (total costs) with documented labor that he can no longer charge the same low prices, and dramatically loses business until he is forced to close shop. This allows other businesses to now be able to charge a bit more, and eventually as several of the smaller companies that work under the table go out of business due to increased costs of workers, those business owners are forced to work in larger companies for the minimums what $15-$20 an hourish (still costs the company about $30-$40ish to hold them though with insurances, taxes, ect).
So that sounds good right? Until you look at the fact the prices for that work will sky rocket as competition gets choked out. Less work will be performed, and the many people that would like to have that work done will not be able to afford it and decide now is not the right time.
All those businesses that rely on them, like paint shops for painters, landscaping for (you get the idea) all are hit hard and have to shut down, and again with less competition the remaining companies can increase the prices to the level they need to be to survive. And again there will be an increase in all those services.
Yeah, but at the same time.. Those businesses are keeping prices artifically low because they are cheating the system and hiring illegal immigrants. So basically, the companies that were afraid of perfect competition from other businesses took the easy way out by hiring illegals. So what happened to the businesses that decided to try to play by the rules? A lot of them are already gone or turned to hiring illegals so that they could compete. I won't be crying over businesses that go under because they broke the rules in the first place by hiring illegal immigrants and now that they will have to pay more for labor and raise their prices; the party is over for them. The prices aren't supposed to be controlled by the companies, they are supposed to be controlled by the market and demand. The companies that do illegal things to lower their prices and put other companies out of business would become the only game in town because they are taking on more jobs at lower margins. If nobody elsed hired illegals and that company was the only one around flooded with work, they would simply raise their prices again to the point where they are still kept busy 100% of the time and there is no excess demand for their services at that price. It's really a two way street and a balancing act, the longer that companies are able to hire illegals and drive prices down, the worse the rebound effect will be when something is actually done about it. Also, I'm not exactly how far prices have been driven down because time value has a large effect. It depends on the industry i suppose. It would also depend on whether the companies in that industry are hiring illegals to compete with lower prices or whether they are hiring illegals to save money on labor while charging the same prices and just making more profit.
So yeah Arizona is looking at a huge multiple contraction in their economy if they are able to actually do what this bill is trying to do.
Companies made the decision to conduct their businesses illegaly, they will be the ones harmed. The ones that are legal and paying legal wages will most likely end up better off because they will get some of that business back.
All in hopes of pushing a hard working bunch of people out of the region that in reality they are most indigenist to because of fear.
For some people, it's about whether they are here or not and to others, it's about where they are here or not legally. I'm the latter. I don't care who is in this country, everyone has a right to be here and that's what it's founded upon. But like CrackerJax said, it's whether they come in through the front door or whether they sneak in through the back and begin to destroy the very reason they came here for. They end up destroying the benefit and tax system that a lot of us work hard and by the rules to support. The benefit system works in a cyclical nature and money is payed out that is ideally replenished. Buckets with holes don't hold water even if you keep pouring it in.
But hey really doesn't matter much. The reality of trying to drive out millions of people that so many Americans truly rely on to make their lives better is so daunting of a task that it will not go very far before stuttering out.
The companies rely on them and we rely on the companies that end up hiring them to make more money. In the short run, these companies make more profit. In the long run, they end up back at square one because there is going to be more that one company willing to risk hiring illegals to stay alive and they will be competing with other companies willing to do the same. Companies with only legal employees could compete the same way if they all shared the same higher cost of production. When you talk demand you have to realize that price doesn't shift demand, it only changes the quantity demanded. The demand for the services is still going to be there, but not everyone in town will be able to have their house painted for 20 bucks anymore so a lot of them will decide not to have it done.
