20 Ways ObamaCare Will Take Away Our Freedoms

Patrick Bateman

Active Member
Oops....wrong....again.


A group representing doctors and surgeons are suing the Feds over Obama-Care:
The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) wants the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) to be overturned, according to its suit filed March 26 in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.
“If the PPACA goes unchallenged, then it spells the end of freedom in medicine as we know it,” said Jane Orient, a doctor and the executive director of AAPS, in a statement. “Courts should not allow this massive intrusion into the practice of medicine and the rights of patients.”
The suit is the third to be filed against the legislation in just its first week. Shortly after President Barack Obama signed the bill into law last week, a cadre of attorneys general, mostly Republican, filed suit, arguing that the mandate that every individual buy coverage is unconstitutional. Virginia’s attorney general, Ken Cuccinelli, filed a similar suit on behalf of the commonwealth.
The AAPS agrees in its suit that the individual mandate is unconstitutional and also argues that use of the 10th Amendment regarding taxation is unconstitutional.
“Insurance company executives will be enriched by this requirement, but it violates the Fifth Amendment protection against the government forcing one person to pay cash to another,” she said.
The AAPS also argues the law violates the Tenth Amendment, the Commerce Clause, and the provisions authorizing taxation. “The taxing and spending power cannot be invoked, as the premiums go to private insurance companies,” the group said in the statement.
“The traditional sovereignty of the states over the practice of medicine is destroyed” by the reform legislation, the group added.
The AAPS said that in determining the cost of the legislation, the Congressional Budget Office was bound by assumptions imposed by Congress, including the ability to “save” $500 billion in Medicare, and to redirect $50 billion from Social Security.
The group, which forecasts “dire shortage of physicians” will result from the legislation, wants the court to enjoin the government from promulgating or enforcing insurance mandates.
Anyone who thinks this bill is a good idea should ask themselves 3 questions:
1. if it’s so good why isn’t Congress, the President’s family and those who wrote the bill subject to it?
2. if it’s so good and “desperately needed in order to provide care for those who are uninsured” why does it take 4 years to come into effect?
3. given that 35,000,000 more people will be covered by it and the number of doctors isn’t going up anytime soon, how can they expect service to be any better? It’s physically and mathematically impossible. Wait times for appointments will climb, waiting room times will increase and tests we get now will be reduced.


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i get tired of correcting VERY SIMPLE concepts...over & over again.


So i won't.... but the WHO does NOT use the same criteria as the United states in live births. that's just ONE hint and a partial answer.


There are more.....but the fact that you haven't even BOTHERED to find out and yet....post as if you have actual knowledge is entertaining to me as well. carry on in the shallow end of the pool. I swim quite a bit deeper however, with the big fish..
Yes let's use a conservative run operation who does not reflect the mainstream to make our points.

An organization who believes that the gay lifestyle SHORTENS LIFE EXPECTANCY BY 20 YEARS

They also publish faulty studies linking breast cancer to abortion, which has been rejected by pretty much every major Cancer institute in America.

The AAPS is a conservative advocacy group, not a legitimate medical organization, so please stop browsing Conservapedia looking for legitimate sources.

Ofcourse the are going to predict a "dire shortage of physicians"
TO INSIGHT FEAR INTO THE CONSERVATIVE MASSES IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR AGENDA.

Obviously they are doing their job.

ahhhh, no. the majority of people dont live in urban settings. its funny how you guys not from here know everything about here.
Hmmmm, 82% sound like a majority to you?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html
 

CrackerJax

New Member
I made my point... I stayed in focus.... try it sometime.

The WHO is not a source when it comes to comparing life expectancy. PERIOD.... and again...you were obviously UNAWARE of the facts of live births....so you are misinformed...and yet you post as if you actually know something...when you don't.

ouch... educate urself...THEN post.

Alias name please? what is it?
 

Handson

Active Member
Word. Then all those whiney little cancer kids and their deadbeat parents can go suck a fat one. I'm not paying for your chemo, bitches! Go die somewhere else. :finger:
How fucking heartless.

All you need to do is give them hemp oil :)
 

vh13

Well-Known Member
I got about 5 pages in an couldn't read anymore, sorry to all those who made good points I never read.

I've worked in the health insurance industry for nearly 8 years now, and I don't like this bill. It was completely bought and paid for by the major health insurance providers.

My biggest complaint is this:

THIS BILL IS NOT HEALTH CARE REFORM! IT IS HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM!!! IT IS AN ENDORSEMENT OF AN INDUSTRY THAT IS FAILING US!!!!! :cuss:

Honestly, I support Obama on a lot of things, but I think this will prove to be his biggest blunder (hopefully I'm wrong). I don't think it was his fault, however, he is no expert, and he is reliant on the mis-informed people around him.

But then again, I think the most cost effective way to provide health care is with true socialist medicine: where everyone gets everything they need (paid for by taxes which will be cheaper then insurance premiums, by far) and nothing they don't or are unwilling to pay for themselves, just like in the UK and Canada.
 

estesj

Well-Known Member
obamacare will make the hospital worse than the dmv! There are allot of negative things to say about him but I dont feel like typing that much.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
The best health care in the world is/WAS in the USA....the only thing needed was for the govt. to get all the way OUT of it. it was the govt. mandates and blocking folks from crossing state lines with their policies which helped drive the costs skyward. Throw in the ravenous TORT lawyers and bingo.... Obama blames everyone EXCEPT the govt....which can't run ANYTHING well...and promptly takes it over AGAINST the wishes of the ppl.

That's not leadership...that's hubris.
 

Handson

Active Member
The best health care in the world is/WAS in the USA....
.
I thought it was the NHS, you pay national insurance when you work. I was paying £96.00 a month or $150.00 from $26000 salary.

This would give me all treatment, ranging from a sprained wrist to terminal illness, now I am out of work, everything is free.
 

vh13

Well-Known Member
I thought it was the NHS, you pay national insurance when you work.
I have a few business contacts out in the UK, they often ask me why we don't do the same thing here in the States, now that you guys have shown state medicine can be so effective and efficient. I don't have an answer.

I imagine Obama never would have pursued this fucked up insurance based program and tried for something better if it wasn't for so much resistance to development using modern efficiency from the extreme right. I suppose the only reason they let it go this far is because a few major companies get to profit hugely... hooray for Reaganomics! :dunce:
 

Patrick Bateman

Active Member
THIS BILL IS NOT HEALTH CARE REFORM! IT IS HEALTH INSURANCE REFORM!!! IT IS AN ENDORSEMENT OF AN INDUSTRY THAT IS FAILING US!!!!! :cuss:

But then again, I think the most cost effective way to provide health care is with true socialist medicine: where everyone gets everything they need (paid for by taxes which will be cheaper then insurance premiums, by far) and nothing they don't or are unwilling to pay for themselves, just like in the UK and Canada.
Absolutely, this bill is nowhere near perfect however measures have to taken to ensure coverage for many people who are not covered now.

I do not agree with the way it is being done either (building on the existing capitalist system)

Americans are incredibly xenophobic

It's almost a case of classical conditioning where young they are indoctrinated that Socialism = Redistribution of Wealth = Handouts to the poor = EVIL

Then the key words are utilized by the Rush Limbaughs and the Sarah Palins to elicit a conditioned visceral response of mass fear and paranoia

If only Dems would sink to that level they could actually get something done
 

medicineman

New Member
The best health care in the world is/WAS in the USA....the only thing needed was for the govt. to get all the way OUT of it. it was the govt. mandates and blocking folks from crossing state lines with their policies which helped drive the costs skyward. Throw in the ravenous TORT lawyers and bingo.... Obama blames everyone EXCEPT the govt....which can't run ANYTHING well...and promptly takes it over AGAINST the wishes of the ppl.

That's not leadership...that's hubris.
It was the best health care money could buy, but if you are a middle class worker with no health insurance.............................
The actual costs of medical malpractice are minimal at best and not significant enough to derail real medical reform.
A 2004 report by the Congressional Budget Office said medical malpractice makes up only 2 percent of U.S. health spending. Even “significant reductions” would do little to curb health-care expenses, it concluded.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
I thought it was the NHS, you pay national insurance when you work. I was paying £96.00 a month or $150.00 from $26000 salary.

This would give me all treatment, ranging from a sprained wrist to terminal illness, now I am out of work, everything is free.
Let's see... GB health care....

England
Great Britain’s National Health Service (NHS)was created on July 5, 1948. As with all government programs, bureaucrats underestimated initial cost projections. First-year operating costs of NHS were 52 million pounds higher than original estimates1 as Britons saturated the so-called free system.
Many decades of shortages, misery and suffering followed until 1989, when some market-based health care competition was reintroduced to the British citizens2.
Unfortunately for those requiring care, a mostly socialist health care system has problems. The articles and commentaries in this section identify some disasters caused by government intervention in the British health care system.

yah... it's fekkin great!! I can pull overall statistics as well if you prefer. It all looks great... if you never actually LOOK at the data. :wink:


I have a few business contacts out in the UK, they often ask me why we don't do the same thing here in the States, now that you guys have shown state medicine can be so effective and efficient. I don't have an answer.

I imagine Obama never would have pursued this fucked up insurance based program and tried for something better if it wasn't for so much resistance to development using modern efficiency from the extreme right. I suppose the only reason they let it go this far is because a few major companies get to profit hugely... hooray for Reaganomics! :dunce:
You can tell them that there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with USA health care AT ALL.... EXCEPT for the cost. In terms of QUALITY and AVAILABILITY of the best most MODERN equipment, no country holds a candle to the USA.

The only problem is the cost. There are some private sector fixes that would work...but guess who doesn't want them...the govt. Gee that's a coincidence because they do want to be in charge of all the $$$. No conflict there? No whistles and bells go off? seriously.....

No one compares to the USA in health care.
 

Balzac89

Undercover Mod
Let's see... GB health care....

England
Great Britain’s National Health Service (NHS)was created on July 5, 1948. As with all government programs, bureaucrats underestimated initial cost projections. First-year operating costs of NHS were 52 million pounds higher than original estimates1 as Britons saturated the so-called free system.
Many decades of shortages, misery and suffering followed until 1989, when some market-based health care competition was reintroduced to the British citizens2.
Unfortunately for those requiring care, a mostly socialist health care system has problems. The articles and commentaries in this section identify some disasters caused by government intervention in the British health care system.

yah... it's fekkin great!! I can pull overall statistics as well if you prefer. It all looks great... if you never actually LOOK at the data. :wink:




You can tell them that there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with USA health care AT ALL.... EXCEPT for the cost. In terms of QUALITY and AVAILABILITY of the best most MODERN equipment, no country holds a candle to the USA.

The only problem is the cost. There are some private sector fixes that would work...but guess who doesn't want them...the govt. Gee that's a coincidence because they do want to be in charge of all the $$$. No conflict there? No whistles and bells go off? seriously.....

No one compares to the USA in health care.

lol just because you have a mouth does not make you right.
 

Balzac89

Undercover Mod
One more thing, if you get your facts from anything but the actual statistics themselves you would be considered biased. Everyone has their own interpretation.

Stop with all the copying and pasting bullshit. Ik it seems kewl.
 

Patrick Bateman

Active Member
Let's see... GB health care....

You can tell them that there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with USA health care AT ALL.... EXCEPT for the cost. In terms of QUALITY and AVAILABILITY of the best most MODERN equipment, no country holds a candle to the USA.

The only problem is the cost. There are some private sector fixes that would work...but guess who doesn't want them...the govt. Gee that's a coincidence because they do want to be in charge of all the $$$. No conflict there? No whistles and bells go off? seriously.....

No one compares to the USA in health care.
It would help if half those links were not broken and did not lead to some conservative biased run from his basement webpage.

That being said, obviously there are legitimate flaws in socialized medicine as the anecdotal evidence suggests from those sources.

Better to be covered and die than die because you were denied care in one of the wealthiest nations in the world.

I believe the pinnacle of Health Care is in the mixture of Private and Government run health care as exists in France.

But to believe the insurance companies would fix the way they do business without government interference is simply irrational, that is a fact.

Also to believe that your current health care system is the best in the world is simply wrong.

It is difficult but try and see though the stars and stripes and all that other patriotic bull shit you people value so highly and realize America may have it wrong for once.
 

vh13

Well-Known Member
I've got a fix for you. Stop all the unnesessary tests that doctors approve.
This is my biggest complaint with an insurance based system, too many elective procedures not payed for by the recipient of the elective procedure.

Btw, that long list of government caused problems is TINY compared to the number of patients who have their coverage dropped and have their premiums returned and will never qualify for new coverage again, only to lose their entire life savings and go into debt to pay for medical expenses accrued while they paid their premiums... all for bogus reasons.

I mentioned I've worked in the health insurance industry for 8 years now, I've met more then a few families who have lost their homes. I've met two women whose husbands suffered and died for lack of care because they could not pay for treatment and were denied coverage.

There are many statistical studies that all show the same thing: the current system is indeed failing a great many Americans.
 
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