NUBE HERE !!! Help Appreciated

cazador

Active Member
i use the GH nutes


during veg

its
3 parts Grow
2 parts micro
1 part bloom


if you are not giving it enought of the grow, the plant will be hungry for those nutes and maybe it keep drinking looking for more of that grow but sucking up bloom instead which it might not want right now

anyway just a theory

like you must be sure you are giving the plants the right amount of fert from each color or reading your ppms means nothing cuz what if they want grownute but there wasnt enough there so it drinks all the grow and is waiting for more but all thats left if bloom and micro

couldnt this cause your ppm not to go down as much even tho your plants may be real hungry for grow nute?

anyway just theorizing here,

i never did the lucas formula but imo i would trust the scientists who developed the GH nutes 3 part flora series before trusting mr lucas even if he was targeting specifically for growing weed. I think GH is what nasa uses even on thier plants in space:hump:

u use these right:



BL - I woke last night thinking of your situation (go figure), well, I came to the same conclusion as Big P. I have never used Lucas Formula either but it seemed to me if I understand it correctly that your giving them a balanced solution to start with then the plants take what they want/need and leave the rest. Then you go to adjust based on PPM which doesn't tell you much about the breakdown of nutes. That is where I think the weak link is. As soon as you start to off balance the nutes lockout starts to occur. so that's my theory too
 

cazador

Active Member
ok i think im getting it now you are using these right:


you need to give them grow formula man: this one:



also its supposed to automatically PH your water


seriously, i never ph my stuff cuz with my tap water (comes out around 7ph) and with these nutes they automatically ph the water to the perfect ph, it always perfect so I stopped even testing it long long ago
I think he can get away without the grow by using the micro but i think your earlier theory is more on the money. Plants drinking mucho N and the P is building and then locking out the N?
 

BeginnersLuck

Active Member
i use the GH nutes


during veg

its
3 parts Grow
2 parts micro
1 part bloom


if you are not giving it enought of the grow, the plant will be hungry for those nutes and maybe it keep drinking looking for more of that grow but sucking up bloom instead which it might not want right now

anyway just a theory

like you must be sure you are giving the plants the right amount of fert from each color or reading your ppms means nothing cuz what if they want grownute but there wasnt enough there so it drinks all the grow and is waiting for more but all thats left if bloom and micro

couldnt this cause your ppm not to go down as much even tho your plants may be real hungry for grow nute?

anyway just theorizing here,

i never did the lucas formula but imo i would trust the scientists who developed the GH nutes 3 part flora series before trusting mr lucas even if he was targeting specifically for growing weed. I think GH is what nasa uses even on thier plants in space:hump:

u use these right:


Yes P I use all these except the Grow.. The lucas formula doesnt call for grow...

General Hydroponics Flora Series Feeding Strategy - Lucas Formula

G-M-B (Grow-Micro-Bloom)
0-5-10 - For Vegetative cycle (18/6)
0-8-16 - For Flowering cycle (12/12)

The numbers above indicate the number of milliliters (ml) of Flora Grow, Micro or Bloom formulas that I use in one gallon (US Liquid) of nutrients.

You will notice I dont use any of the Flora “Grow” formula, do not need to, the Flora "Micro" provides plenty of Nitrogen.

There are two ways to work with this formula:

1. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected water solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. After adding back an amount of water equal to the amount of your reservoir capacity you should change the reservoir and put in fresh solution.

2. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected 100% strength nutrient solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. Continue to use this nutrient solution without dumping the tank unless the PPM rises above acceptable levels.

Between vegetative and flowering cycles you should dump your nutrients, then flush (possibly with Clearex) to remove salt buildups, then change to the other feeding program. Always shake your GH nutrient bottles before using them!

For young plants, just transplanted into the hydro setup, give them 50% strength nutrient mix to prevent overfeeding them while their young. Gradually bring up the mix to full strength as they grow over the next few weeks or so.

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water.

NOTE: The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers. Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive.

The Flora Micro is providing the Nitrogen and the Magnesium in the proper balance, thus there is no need for the Grow formula and little or no room under the maximum acceptable ppm limit of 1600 @ 0.7 conversion.

Calculated EC/TDS levels:

EC microsiemen:
0-4-8: 946 µS
0-5-10: 1184 µS
0-8-16: 1894 µS

TDS @ 0.5 conversion:
0-4-8 = 473 ppm
0-5-10 = 592 ppm
0-8-16 = 947 ppm

TDS @ 0.7 conversion:
0-4-8 = 663 ppm
0-5-10 = 829 ppm
0-8-16 = 1326 ppm

Addback Calculator - (For Advanced Users)

Say you were running the 0-8-16 formula, at 0.7 conversion with a 22 gallon res. When you first fill it up, your ppm will be around 1330.

Now you have been growing for a week, and some of the water has been taken up by the plants, some has evaporated, and now your res is at 947 ppm. You need to get your ppm from 947 to 1330. Here is the equation:

((target - current) / target) * 8 ml per gallon * res gallons = Flora Micro (ml) double this figure to get Flora Bloom (ml)

Example:

((1330 - 947) / 1330) * 8 * 22
(383 / 1330) * 8 * 22
0.3 * 8 * 22 = 53 ml Flora Micro

53 ml Flora Micro, double that and you get 106 ml Flora Bloom. So 53 ml Flora Micro and 106 ml Flora Bloom to add back to your 22 gallon res to get you from 947 to 1330.

Using Hard Water GH Micro

I had been experimenting with using the Hard water Micro as a substitute for the normal Flora Micro, this to account for my hard 350 PPM water and the lack of a large enough RO filter at the time. It has worked well for me. I just kept my reservoir below 1150 PPM @ .5 conversion and its all good.

One tip - do not pH down this stuff, the hard water micro will drop pH gradually over the next 24 hours, for example I mix up a batch, it is at like 6.2, the next day, its at 5.6-5.8 after running in the system for a while. If I pH downed that to 5.7 before putting it in the system, it ended up as low as 4.8-5.2 by the next day.

My conclusion, the hard water micro was buffering the alkaline crud in my water, it just doesnot do it ASAP fast like the phosphoric acid.

Thanks Beginner
 

BeginnersLuck

Active Member
ok i think im getting it now you are using these right:



?



you need to give them grow formula man: this one:





not sure if this is part of the problem but could be

I highly recommnd the GH flora 3 Part series:

FLORA SERIES™
Liquid Concentrated Nutrient

FLORA SERIES IS THE MOST WIDELY USED HYDROPONIC FERTILIZER IN THE WORLD BECAUSE IT IS THE BEST!

• GH Flora Series is the original Building-Block Nutrient System – imitated but never duplicated.
• Contains complete Primary, Secondary and Micro Nutrients –for enhanced yields and better crop quality.
• Users can adjust mixtures to suit specific plant needs.
• Enhances flavor, nutrition, aroma and essential oils in both hydroponic and soil cultivated plants.
• Contains highly purified concentrates for maximum solubility.
• pH balanced for ease of use.
• NASA and Antarctic research scientists choose Flora Series -- because of its superior formulation and reliability.
• The General Hydroponics Flora Series is known throughout the world as the industry standard.


also its supposed to automatically PH your water


seriously, i never ph my stuff cuz with my tap water (comes out around 7ph) and with these nutes they automatically ph the water to the perfect ph, it always perfect so I stopped even testing it long long ago
No the Floanova series is the "Lucas Formula" in a bottle bascially. I WISH I started with this. I am using the traditional lucas fomula with RO water... See above post

Thanks,,

I plan on going to the Floranova next grow cycle and using tap water instead of buying RO water from walmart.

Beginner
 

BeginnersLuck

Active Member
I think he can get away without the grow by using the micro but i think your earlier theory is more on the money. Plants drinking mucho N and the P is building and then locking out the N?
So what do I do about that... I basically have been changing the res out ever 2 days while babying these things back to recovery.

I have noticed that the drum has dropped about 7 gallons in 2 days... The ppm is up to about 285 after starting with 200. MY Ph is slowly rising from 5.55 to 5.95 over these to days...

I was planning on adding more RO water today to get the PPM back down.. I last filled this res on Saturday night so the nutes are fresh the plants have only had these nutes 3 times.. Hopefully that makes sense...

I still think that I got excess solution that is high PPM like the 800-900 stuff I was feeding them built up in the cubes and its slowly leaching out the bottoms into the hydroton now..

They are growing, the one tall one grows about an inch a day now..

My room is al different, I now have the eb and grow on the floor in there so my lights are like 3-4 feet high. I am still using MH 6am - 6pm and the HPS noon to midnight.. The light green seems to be minimized. The previous set of fan leaves that grew a day or two before still look green, the very very tips though are brown and curl directly 90 degress up or down.

What do you think?

BL
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
so how do you know the lucas formula is better than the directions on the bottles?


i breifly researched lucas formula back in the day but not a lot & decided against it,


I asked PotRoast about it he is a mod on here and has years and years of expiriance. I think it was in his thread called nutriant soup or somthing. Ill try to link it.


Here is the link to the thread, now let me find the link where i ask about the lucas formula.

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/1171-nutrient-soup.html



ok i asked about the lucas on post 55 from panda bear on this page

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/1171-nutrient-soup-2.html



here ill just post what we talked about:



Originally Posted by pandabear
hey potroast, what do you think about the lucas formula?

or anyone know if its really the better way to go if your using GH nutes?

i have just been following the directions on the bottle, is this a mistake?

G M F
3-2-1 Veg

2-2-2 Transition period

1-2-3 Flowering

Hey pb, I tried growing with it 10 years ago, and found that plants yellowed too early mid-way through flowering, so I always used the Grow, too. I think that cannabis likes the ammonium-nitrogen that is mainly in the Grow component. I was a regular in the group that developed that formula, and I tested it with the others in the group.

I grew many crops using 5ml/gal of each all the way through. At the time, there were many growers who always used 2-3ml/gal of each. I came to realize that the 3-1 ratio is important for the Grow and Bloom parts. I never used a mix as strong as the bottle, they say that those units in their formula are teaspoons (5ml) so I would keep that formula, but make the units about half, or 3ml.

So your ml/gal would be 9ml Grow 6ml Micro 3ml Bloom for veg. and 3ml Grow 6ml Micro 9ml Bloom for flowering.

Some Floralicious Plus will aid the secondary metabolic processes that we like.

HTH :mrgreen:
 

BeginnersLuck

Active Member
so how do you know the lucas formula is better than the directions on the bottles?


i breifly researched lucas formula back in the day but not a lot & decided against it,


I asked PotRoast about it he is a mod on here and has years and years of expiriance. I think it was in his thread called nutriant soup or somthing. Ill try to link it.


Here is the link to the thread, now let me find the link where i ask about the lucas formula.

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/1171-nutrient-soup.html



ok i asked about the lucas on post 55 from panda bear on this page

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/1171-nutrient-soup-2.html



here ill just post what we talked about:



Originally Posted by pandabear
hey potroast, what do you think about the lucas formula?

or anyone know if its really the better way to go if your using GH nutes?

i have just been following the directions on the bottle, is this a mistake?

G M F
3-2-1 Veg

2-2-2 Transition period

1-2-3 Flowering

Hey pb, I tried growing with it 10 years ago, and found that plants yellowed too early mid-way through flowering, so I always used the Grow, too. I think that cannabis likes the ammonium-nitrogen that is mainly in the Grow component. I was a regular in the group that developed that formula, and I tested it with the others in the group.

I grew many crops using 5ml/gal of each all the way through. At the time, there were many growers who always used 2-3ml/gal of each. I came to realize that the 3-1 ratio is important for the Grow and Bloom parts. I never used a mix as strong as the bottle, they say that those units in their formula are teaspoons (5ml) so I would keep that formula, but make the units about half, or 3ml.

So your ml/gal would be 9ml Grow 6ml Micro 3ml Bloom for veg. and 3ml Grow 6ml Micro 9ml Bloom for flowering.

Some Floralicious Plus will aid the secondary metabolic processes that we like.

HTH :mrgreen:
Hmm interesting I just went with Lucas cause thats what everything I read refered to. It was supposed to be soo easy.. I am thinking about going to Cannisworld and getting on the ask lucas thread... I just dont know... I dot have a level baseline anymore obviously shits all fucked to hell
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
Hmm interesting I just went with Lucas cause thats what everything I read refered to. It was supposed to be soo easy.. I am thinking about going to Cannisworld and getting on the ask lucas thread... I just dont know... I dot have a level baseline anymore obviously shits all fucked to hell


well like i said I never tried it myself so I cant really say one way or the other.



i wish somone would have tried a side by side test so we could actually see.

anyway good luck.

let us know if you need anythign else.
 

BeginnersLuck

Active Member
well like i said I never tried it myself so I cant really say one way or the other.



i wish somone would have tried a side by side test so we could actually see.

anyway good luck.

let us know if you need anythign else.
So just so I am 100% clear your suggestion is to start adding grow to the soup?

Arnt the nutes still to high as is with the ppm in the res rising still?
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
So just so I am 100% clear your suggestion is to start adding grow to the soup?

Arnt the nutes still to high as is with the ppm in the res rising still?

its hard to say,


im thinkin your plant should grow even without nutes



ok so if it was me I would use the GH Flora 3 Part series as directed on the label and then move on to lucas on later grows once I got 1 or 2 grows under my belt

but it could have nothing to do with it.
 

BeginnersLuck

Active Member
its hard to say,


im thinkin your plant should grow even without nutes



ok so if it was me I would use the GH Flora 3 Part series as directed on the label and then move on to lucas on later grows once I got 1 or 2 grows under my belt

but it could have nothing to do with it.
Word as soon as I am done eating I will post some updated pics and then if you would please re-assess them thanks...

BL
 

BeginnersLuck

Active Member
Word as soon as I am done eating I will post some updated pics and then if you would please re-assess them thanks...

BL
Hey check this out... Add-ons arrive and started transplanting the remain plants and while doing it destroyed the 3 weakest ones and investigated them..

I rung out as much water from the cubes as I could the PH was 6.4 HIGH

The ppm from these cubes was 300 on the dot well 298...

So I am still convinced that the PH in the cubes is HIGHas 6.4 and locking out and throughing off my nutes..

Thoughts?


Thanks
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
weird thing is my tap comes out 7 ph and i soak my rockwool in that before taking clones and never had a problem with them


however maybe since you have such large cubes the roots will swim all over that cube putting more of your rootball mass into the bad ph block?

specially since your plants are small in contrast to the huge rootball?


so now you may not have this problem anymore since you said you already got shit loads of roots hanging outside the block

however I think I just figured out the problem maybe while typing this.

since you are on eb and flow when your roots are not in the water and they are still hungry and thirsty

since your main roots outside the block are dry

the plant might suck up shit form the huge block if it gets hungry and thirsty

causing most of you feeding to happen inside the dastardly wrongly phed rockwool instead of you nice new fresh 300 ppm water?


Ph is outa my league tho as I do not do anything with PH
 

BeginnersLuck

Active Member
weird thing is my tap comes out 7 ph and i soak my rockwool in that before taking clones and never had a problem with them


however maybe since you have such large cubes the roots will swim all over that cube putting more of your rootball mass into the bad ph block?

specially since your plants are small in contrast to the huge rootball?


so now you may not have this problem anymore since you said you already got shit loads of roots hanging outside the block

however I think I just figured out the problem maybe while typing this.

since you are on eb and flow when your roots are not in the water and they are still hungry and thirsty

since your main roots outside the block are dry

the plant might suck up shit form the huge block if it gets hungry and thirsty

causing most of you feeding to happen inside the dastardly wrongly phed rockwool instead of you nice new fresh 300 ppm water?


Ph is outa my league tho as I do not do anything with PH
Exactly.... That is what I am thinking as well...

The plants I detroyed they essentially had NO roots... very little roots penetrated the rockwool from the rapid rooters. My guess is overwatering and root rot/disease...

So with that being said I guess I am gonna have to use the ebb and grow and then in addition water the cubes slightly with acidic water... say around 5.3?

Thoughts....

Thanks,
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
Exactly.... That is what I am thinking as well...

The plants I detroyed they essentially had NO roots... very little roots penetrated the rockwool from the rapid rooters. My guess is overwatering and root rot/disease...

So with that being said I guess I am gonna have to use the ebb and grow and then in addition water the cubes slightly with acidic water... say around 5.3?

Thoughts....

Thanks,



did you see any root rot?


that shit is real nasty and spreads fast if you dont cut it off in time,


ill be compleatly honest with you, return your ebb and flow and just go to lowes and get a large tub

cut holes in the lid buy and air pump and do DWC


theres really no reason to complicate things if you can just plant them in a bucket of water with air stone in it and call it a day.


however its better to buy a nice res if you do this mine cost a good $160 but its top of the line

i even have a drain tube installed in it






The GH Panda reservoir is 40 gallons. It has a white exterior (which reflects heat) and a black interior (which discourages algae growth). It offers a small foot print and is very durable. Purchase lid separately.




that way you can just use small rockwool, i use 3.75" net pots with 3" rockwool in it since the bottom tapers down and pot 6 plants in the lid evenly spaced grown up to 5ft


I even saw a guy who use real tiny net pots like 2 inch



but i always wondered why people would use a flood and drain system if in DWC they are sitting in water the whole time


why tease em:bigjoint:

takes more work, and makes them not be able to eat and drink whenever they want


one major thing tho is to have a redundant air pump system, but since my res is many gallons and i check it al the time i think i should catch it in time if I have a air pump failure

also i use the dual diaphram pumps so if one diaphram goes out you have the other one working until you replace the diaphame with the repair kit:

GH Dual Diaphragm Air Pump
$69.95 new - Amazon.com
 

cazador

Active Member
You said it. You don't have a base line. If you don't have healthy plants to start with it's hard to evaluate things correctly. And as I said before at some point the plants will never recover unless your planing to grow bonsais.
 

BeginnersLuck

Active Member
did you see any root rot?


that shit is real nasty and spreads fast if you dont cut it off in time,


ill be compleatly honest with you, return your ebb and flow and just go to lowes and get a large tub

cut holes in the lid buy and air pump and do DWC
I dont know what it looks like.. It just a couple of the root ends were brown and looked thin like smashed... Thats what I meant. As far as Scrapping the Ebb and Grow LMAO ... LMAO ROTFLMA.. Dude I just spent about 24 hours transplanting 24 plants soo thats not gonna happen... Again I am struggleing but I know it cause of the mistakes and I can Identify the mistakes..

I am very confident that my system will be phenominal in the long run.. I am just gowing through growing plains I am not ready to re-invent my wheel..

I am off to the hydro store.. be back later I am getting the Grow...

TTYL
 

Big P

Well-Known Member
:bigjoint:
I dont know what it looks like.. It just a couple of the root ends were brown and looked thin like smashed... Thats what I meant. As far as Scrapping the Ebb and Grow LMAO ... LMAO ROTFLMA.. Dude I just spent about 24 hours transplanting 24 plants soo thats not gonna happen... Again I am struggleing but I know it cause of the mistakes and I can Identify the mistakes..

I am very confident that my system will be phenominal in the long run.. I am just gowing through growing plains I am not ready to re-invent my wheel..

I am off to the hydro store.. be back later I am getting the Grow...

TTYL


cool good luck

make sure no over achiever cop follows you home, unless you are in a legal state
 
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