streetlegal
Well-Known Member
Thanks for lookin man,and yeh i thought just as much..
Also im in Australia, and there like the only 1sec timers that hydro shops carry.. someone else suggested making my own too.
NEW NFT (nutrient film technique) SOG SETUP
- Thread starter sherriberry
- Start date
Also im in Australia, and there like the only 1sec timers that hydro shops carry.. someone else suggested making my own too.
fatman7574
New Member
http://www.ia.omron.com/global_network/asia-pacific/australia.html If you have any place there that sells surplus and used industrial equipment then the Omon timer ought to be available there also as it is sold there also. I don't buy them retail but I buy any surplus I see for $75 or less. I have many that are over 5 years old and still running short cycle timing without fault.
repvip
Well-Known Member
sherri what's the good word? Did you decide to ditch the fence posts?
I'm still having great results, for half-assing as much as I do! I was able to use some John Guest fittings with 3/8" diameter black vinyl tubing, and it worked excellent. Those fittings solved all my leaks... ordered a set of AeroFlo laser drilled spraylines, as I've heard good things about them... getting my HP pumps tomorrow, so I'm excited to try them out
I'm still having great results, for half-assing as much as I do! I was able to use some John Guest fittings with 3/8" diameter black vinyl tubing, and it worked excellent. Those fittings solved all my leaks... ordered a set of AeroFlo laser drilled spraylines, as I've heard good things about them... getting my HP pumps tomorrow, so I'm excited to try them out
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sherriberry
New Member
just when you think you need all the fancy stuff... guys like this make you wonder why you try...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sa1IIgmtqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sa1IIgmtqY
fatman7574
New Member
And your point is --what--????
sherriberry
New Member
sherri what's the good word? Did you decide to ditch the fence posts?
I'm still having great results, for half-assing as much as I do! I was able to use some John Guest fittings with 3/8" diameter black vinyl tubing, and it worked excellent. Those fittings solved all my leaks... ordered a set of AeroFlo laser drilled spraylines, as I've heard good things about them... getting my HP pumps tomorrow, so I'm excited to try them out
wow, those are led lights arent they!!!???
ive been busy as hell, negotiating with the chinese about these new electrodless induction lights... and buying them straight form the factory in china, lol
they are like cfl's, but way better.
anyway... ive just been busy doing shit, my days have been crazy.
and ive been doing more homework on these other setups..
check this one out too...
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/101347-critical-mass-tree-grow-x.html
im just trying to figure out the best of both worlds hybrid...
i can tell from all these threads and grows im finding with dwc in the bottom of these chambers that it wont hurt my grow.
pay special attention to that guys root mass in that link i just posted...
his root mass makes me wonder... in the long run, once roots take over the chambers... whats the point of having the sprayer?
the way those roots are, they are like thier own rockwool medium...
i got a few open questions still out there waiting to be answered...
soon, i will figure this puzzle out.
im having a blast doing it btw, i love inventing shit
repvip
Well-Known Member
That root mass is crazy! Was there any room left for water in the rez!? Fuck, those are trees man.
Yeah those are LEDs. I went all out and got a very high end 350w quad-band panel. I would say, it is comparable to a 400w HID. It's hard to get coverage out of them, but if you keep them close with a light mover, they are very efficient and work really well. I use them on my small plants. They are definitely not comparable to a 1000w, and not really to a 600 IMHO.
At this point, I wouldn't actually flower my plants with LEDs, unless I had no choice. HIDs produce bigger buds. However, if energy, heat and ventilation are a huge concern, and yield and cost aren't
they work.I have to agree 100% there are easier, proven ways. Makes me want to ditch all these little plants and do a simple flood and drain with hydroton
However, your cloner unit, might be perfect. I've had such good success with the stinkbud vegetative units, which are just two rubbermaids on top of each other, the bottom as the reservoir so the top can drain completely, which has sprayers. I'm very tempted to get the biggest rubbermaids available and just go with that simple setup. Two on top of each other is too tall though, so I would need a different way to drain it, or else keep tghe res all containted in one--like your DWC/aero mentioned above. Like that youtube video, but 4 big ass tubs instead
https://www.rollitup.org/1890919-post2091.html
But I've also had great success with the fence posts. In my experience, the bigger the plants are before they are placed into the fence posts, the better. This is where I had problems with sprayers getting grown over with roots, then it became a simple flood system, that eventually never emptied. Well, it recycled, but never completely emptied before each cycle.
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/149998-heaths-flooded-tube-vertical.html
You've seen this I'm sure? It makes me think DWC in a tube! Shoot, you might see 'RV's flooded fence posts' soon
So, I still want to know about your cloner.. does it drain, or is it self contained?
sherriberry
New Member
i dont do any stacking of tubs... its pointless...
if you think about it, the first stage of clones... their roots cant even reach the water in the bottom even when you use the small rubbermades.
like i said earlier, i have a 3 station setup, small tubs, giant tubs, and then that table i made.
the large tubs, once my assembly line got backed up... i found the larger tubs can veg plants to very big proportions, as long as i keep lifting the light.
i have an 8bay t5 4ft over it, and its PERFECT
you only use half the lights in the begining, (if you use super small cuttings like me) but once the plants are about 5 inches tall, turn em all on and whatch em explode.
in this big tub, right now there is no drain, just bubble stones... and the pump sets in the bottom, and the pvc screws right into the pump itself if you get the right npt fitting...
and then i have the conventional H with the ezclone sprayers all over it, i think 3 on each leg of the H, so 12 sprayers total, on a 566gph pump, works plenty well.
and the roots... well they jsut grow down into the water... but the aeration from the bubble stones, and from the sprayed water itself raining back down... that water doenst hurt the roots... infact... my roots go crazy once they hit the water... they get much thicker.
my cycles are like 5-7 min off, and 2-3 min on.
like i said, i make it rain in there for a while to aerate the water.
im sure if one used sprayers, and had the water actually coming and going from these tubs at all times.... it would be beneficial all the way around.
one would simply have to put a screen of some sort on the drain holes which would be located about 2 inches up from the bottom of the bucket... or possibly 2 drains like DOUBLED's 42 lb grow uses...
and then one feed hose coming in at the very bottom of the tub, and i would probably put it on the opposite end of the tub from the drains, that way you are assured the water gets replaced and flushed and stays fresh...
and this water always moves... never stops moving
and if the power goes out?
all you need are battery backups for the sprayer pumps...
the water in the bottom of the tubs can sit still for a while without problems im sure.
as far as configuring the sprayers in the tubs... im still thinking, but i know i want to use the 1/4 inch hoses and not the pvc.
coolest part of the system i think... is you can lift the lid off any tub at any time, and carry it to another tub.... so you can create an assembly line, without having to seperate plant roots, just let them get tangled and forget about it.
only time you move individual plants is after about 3 weeks, when they start to crowd eachtoehr, but their roots arent together enough yet for that to be any problem...
and in moving, i mean youd split them to 2 lids, or even 3 lids to make room for the plants to fully develop.
and you can use a lid that has all the holes in it from start to finish, you just put in empty netpots to fill holes, and call it a day.
as of right now in all my exploration...
i think this system will be the best as far as ease of use, and growth results, of any other system out there.
we will see tho.
if you think about it, the first stage of clones... their roots cant even reach the water in the bottom even when you use the small rubbermades.
like i said earlier, i have a 3 station setup, small tubs, giant tubs, and then that table i made.
the large tubs, once my assembly line got backed up... i found the larger tubs can veg plants to very big proportions, as long as i keep lifting the light.
i have an 8bay t5 4ft over it, and its PERFECT
you only use half the lights in the begining, (if you use super small cuttings like me) but once the plants are about 5 inches tall, turn em all on and whatch em explode.
in this big tub, right now there is no drain, just bubble stones... and the pump sets in the bottom, and the pvc screws right into the pump itself if you get the right npt fitting...
and then i have the conventional H with the ezclone sprayers all over it, i think 3 on each leg of the H, so 12 sprayers total, on a 566gph pump, works plenty well.
and the roots... well they jsut grow down into the water... but the aeration from the bubble stones, and from the sprayed water itself raining back down... that water doenst hurt the roots... infact... my roots go crazy once they hit the water... they get much thicker.
my cycles are like 5-7 min off, and 2-3 min on.
like i said, i make it rain in there for a while to aerate the water.
im sure if one used sprayers, and had the water actually coming and going from these tubs at all times.... it would be beneficial all the way around.
one would simply have to put a screen of some sort on the drain holes which would be located about 2 inches up from the bottom of the bucket... or possibly 2 drains like DOUBLED's 42 lb grow uses...
and then one feed hose coming in at the very bottom of the tub, and i would probably put it on the opposite end of the tub from the drains, that way you are assured the water gets replaced and flushed and stays fresh...
and this water always moves... never stops moving
and if the power goes out?
all you need are battery backups for the sprayer pumps...
the water in the bottom of the tubs can sit still for a while without problems im sure.
as far as configuring the sprayers in the tubs... im still thinking, but i know i want to use the 1/4 inch hoses and not the pvc.
coolest part of the system i think... is you can lift the lid off any tub at any time, and carry it to another tub.... so you can create an assembly line, without having to seperate plant roots, just let them get tangled and forget about it.
only time you move individual plants is after about 3 weeks, when they start to crowd eachtoehr, but their roots arent together enough yet for that to be any problem...
and in moving, i mean youd split them to 2 lids, or even 3 lids to make room for the plants to fully develop.
and you can use a lid that has all the holes in it from start to finish, you just put in empty netpots to fill holes, and call it a day.
as of right now in all my exploration...
i think this system will be the best as far as ease of use, and growth results, of any other system out there.
we will see tho.
sherriberry
New Member
putting the feed hose and the drain hose on the same side seems beneficial for room setup however...
so i forgot that, if one had to do it this way, then setting the tub on a tilted piece of plywood, so the bottom of the tub itself is sloped, and all water comes back to the drain end, and gets super shallow at the inactive end... this would be another solution in my opinion.
... or, run the feed hose all the way inside the tub to the other end, and that way the flow of water comes back towards the drain drain side and feed side, so all the holes in the tub are on one end, that way you have your isle down the middle of your tubs, with the main drain pipe that brings it all back to the main res...
and you can tape the feed tubes to the BOTTOM of the drain pipe, that way they stay out of light and cooler.... this idea is my favorite, glad i just thought it up,
so i forgot that, if one had to do it this way, then setting the tub on a tilted piece of plywood, so the bottom of the tub itself is sloped, and all water comes back to the drain end, and gets super shallow at the inactive end... this would be another solution in my opinion.
... or, run the feed hose all the way inside the tub to the other end, and that way the flow of water comes back towards the drain drain side and feed side, so all the holes in the tub are on one end, that way you have your isle down the middle of your tubs, with the main drain pipe that brings it all back to the main res...
and you can tape the feed tubes to the BOTTOM of the drain pipe, that way they stay out of light and cooler.... this idea is my favorite, glad i just thought it up,
repvip
Well-Known Member
Woot! Now that's what I'm talking about
hahaI really like your plan. I have the same root experience when vegetating--a couple pics--just like you said, when they hit the water--they explode! (Mine eventually make it through the drain hole and into the reservoir).
I've never been able to replicate that sort of growth, inside a fence post at least. Still, I would like to have the same sort of growth during flowering.
Two huge tubs on top of each other does sound like a bad idea. Much smarter to have modular tubs that can connect into a central reservoir. I would probably have 3 reservoirs--first 3 weeks of flower, finishing flowering 4-5 weeks, and a small one for flushing... but that's due to a harvest every 2 weeks.
My cycle times are 1min on/7.5min off. I was doing 1min/5min for about a year and worked great. Switched to 30sec/5min and worked even better! However, some pumps don't quit finish priming the lines before 30 sec is up, so went up to 1 minute.
Too bad because I just got 8 HP pumps
and was really considering going that route with a moduar type setup. However, I would still need... lots. More lines, pressure regulator, accumulator tank, valves, nozzles etc. the list goes on and on. It's too much for me--I'm going to stick with what I know works...Have to agree with ya on the 1/4" line as well. These pumps I got have 1/4" john guest fittings built in--it's such a breeze to slip a line in, or push back the collar and remove it. Perfection. Not a complete loss--they can run like 4 ez-clone sprayers really well, or twice as many smaller gph sprayers. Or tons of mister/foggers, but steering clear for now. They are 12vdc too. Already went through my first blackout
it's not fun at all. Long post with no new info, eh? I like what you are thinking.. I will probably try it soon and see how it works. My room already has a raised platform, so all I need is to make the tub units with sprayers, input and drain.
There's no need to fight the easy way.
Oh yeah, does your big ass tub leak at all? I've had really good luck with rubbermaid brand, but haven't tried one over 18 gal yet...
Attachments
sherriberry
New Member
no need for accumulator tanks...
just get those pumps fatman pointed out...
they go to 30psi
get the sprayers he pointed out.
put a filter on the pump intake, and on the drain pipe as it comes back into the main res (one of those deisel fuel filter micron catch bags)
tape a screen over the drain hole(s) in each bucket.
tilt and elevate everything so that it drains back to the main res.
use 1 big or 10 small pumps, doenst matter, in the main res to feed the tubs via the feed lines for the water in the bottom of the tubs.
and the one pump fatman showed us for the the sprayers. Spray water falls back down to the tub water, all goes back to the res.
res has both pumps, the spray pump, and the tub water circulation pumps.
tub water circulation pumps need to be high volume to keep things hoppin, and keep the bubbles flowing
power goes out, you have the spray pump on battery backup.
if that battery backup wears off, your roots are still hanging in water as the return lines from the tubs are up a couple inches from the floor, so the tub doesnt completely drain. I guess feed line would have to be up a couple inches too then, so that water didnt backflow through the pump like an ebb and flow.
another cool part i realized is, when it comes time to move a tub... guess how hard draining it is? Shut off all pumps for a few sec. Pick up the far side away from the drain holes.... tilt the tub to about 30 degrees.
all water goes to the drain side, and gets high enough to go out the drain holes. Tub might still have a gal or 2 of water in it.
Take the lid off, put a fresh clean tub in its place. Throw the air stone in, plug in the lines to the new tub. Turn pumps back on. Take old tub and clean it and or put it somewhere else. Take lid on or off tub, with all plants in it, and move it to antoher tub, with a different res, with different nute levels.
its the easiest setup... that ive thought up so far
thats all theres is to it.
just get those pumps fatman pointed out...
they go to 30psi
get the sprayers he pointed out.
put a filter on the pump intake, and on the drain pipe as it comes back into the main res (one of those deisel fuel filter micron catch bags)
tape a screen over the drain hole(s) in each bucket.
tilt and elevate everything so that it drains back to the main res.
use 1 big or 10 small pumps, doenst matter, in the main res to feed the tubs via the feed lines for the water in the bottom of the tubs.
and the one pump fatman showed us for the the sprayers. Spray water falls back down to the tub water, all goes back to the res.
res has both pumps, the spray pump, and the tub water circulation pumps.
tub water circulation pumps need to be high volume to keep things hoppin, and keep the bubbles flowing
power goes out, you have the spray pump on battery backup.
if that battery backup wears off, your roots are still hanging in water as the return lines from the tubs are up a couple inches from the floor, so the tub doesnt completely drain. I guess feed line would have to be up a couple inches too then, so that water didnt backflow through the pump like an ebb and flow.
another cool part i realized is, when it comes time to move a tub... guess how hard draining it is? Shut off all pumps for a few sec. Pick up the far side away from the drain holes.... tilt the tub to about 30 degrees.
all water goes to the drain side, and gets high enough to go out the drain holes. Tub might still have a gal or 2 of water in it.
Take the lid off, put a fresh clean tub in its place. Throw the air stone in, plug in the lines to the new tub. Turn pumps back on. Take old tub and clean it and or put it somewhere else. Take lid on or off tub, with all plants in it, and move it to antoher tub, with a different res, with different nute levels.
its the easiest setup... that ive thought up so far
thats all theres is to it.
repvip
Well-Known Member
Right, there's no need for accumulator tanks with this setup. I meant, if I were to go high pressure (these are 200psi pumps) I would need one, because they are relatively low flow (2lpm).
But, I don't see why I couldn't use one for each tub, powering just enough sprayers to drop the pressure.
I'm just not sure how I feel about installing fittings into the tubs themself. It could leak and flood so very easy.
Not sure I'm completely sold on the second, nft/dwc flow part. At least, not yet... I want to see how they drain with just sprayers, and how long it takes.. first, but it will be easy to incorporate. It sounds like you've done your research about combining aero/dwc.. I haven't, but the few things I have seen usually suggest not to combine them. However, logic tells me it should be fine, if not better...
It's definitely easy and cheap enough to be able to give it a shot! Experimenting is half the fun.
But, I don't see why I couldn't use one for each tub, powering just enough sprayers to drop the pressure.
I'm just not sure how I feel about installing fittings into the tubs themself. It could leak and flood so very easy.
Not sure I'm completely sold on the second, nft/dwc flow part. At least, not yet... I want to see how they drain with just sprayers, and how long it takes.. first, but it will be easy to incorporate. It sounds like you've done your research about combining aero/dwc.. I haven't, but the few things I have seen usually suggest not to combine them. However, logic tells me it should be fine, if not better...
It's definitely easy and cheap enough to be able to give it a shot! Experimenting is half the fun.
repvip
Well-Known Member
Well you know me.. I'll probably do one with and one without, right next to each other
sherriberry
New Member
problem i see with NOT having the dwc high flow system in place...
so lets say you dont do it, and you just have the misters.
and lets be realistic, youll get some overspray, and thus it falls to the bottom of the tub.
now what?
you going to let a bunch of shitty watter just sit in the bottom and rot?
so then lets say you put in a drain hose.
where?
the tubs have an uneven bottom, with 4 low spots in each corner.
so, again, shitty water just sitting down there, not moving.
and thats IF you put the drain ON THE BOTTOM OF THE TUB!!!
good look with that one... youre right, the fitting would get ripped off in no time from the bottom of the tub.
VS, what im suggesting..
put the drains a couple inches up.
There wont be water pressre on the sides of the walls where the drain is... because that will be the height of the water... the drain wont be submerged, it will be at water level.
water takes paths of least resistance
Get a couple rubber o rings, and a sandwitch fitting, and now youre done.
80% of your root zone is up in true aero, with lots of space.
20% of your root zone is down in 2 or 3 inches of water, with tons of oxygen in it... even more than the setups we currently have... where the roots EXPLODE and plants grow fine.
so wheres the draw back? i dont see one
so lets say you dont do it, and you just have the misters.
and lets be realistic, youll get some overspray, and thus it falls to the bottom of the tub.
now what?
you going to let a bunch of shitty watter just sit in the bottom and rot?
so then lets say you put in a drain hose.
where?
the tubs have an uneven bottom, with 4 low spots in each corner.
so, again, shitty water just sitting down there, not moving.
and thats IF you put the drain ON THE BOTTOM OF THE TUB!!!
good look with that one... youre right, the fitting would get ripped off in no time from the bottom of the tub.
VS, what im suggesting..
put the drains a couple inches up.
There wont be water pressre on the sides of the walls where the drain is... because that will be the height of the water... the drain wont be submerged, it will be at water level.
water takes paths of least resistance
Get a couple rubber o rings, and a sandwitch fitting, and now youre done.
80% of your root zone is up in true aero, with lots of space.
20% of your root zone is down in 2 or 3 inches of water, with tons of oxygen in it... even more than the setups we currently have... where the roots EXPLODE and plants grow fine.
so wheres the draw back? i dont see one
sherriberry
New Member
well, in the double D bucket setup page i linked a long time ago...
he grows the huge plants in 8 weeks, and they yeild over 4 lbs a piece...
he has the directions for building his buckets...
the key to his buckets is the diameters of the feed hose, and the drain hoses.
why re-invent the wheel if its already working, right?
here is the link for reference
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/doubleds-med-patient-bucket-diy-mpb-buckets-7883/
so, hes using a single 1/2 feed fitting, (and these are the fittings im going to use btw)
and he has two 1 inch drain fittings.
he is using a 1700gph pump to circulate the water per 5 buckets.
he says water moves quick in all of them.
so i already have a 1700 gph pump, they can be found on ebay once in a while for 60 -80 bucks shipped.
even tho our buckets are bigger, i dont think it matters... what matters is the speed of the water moving through the hoses and making sure there is enough flow across all hoses.
so hes using 2 1700 gph pumps for 10 buckets... using those fittings.
I think thats what i plan to do.
Except, instead of using the hydron rocks with a dripper, we will have aero up top.
he grows the huge plants in 8 weeks, and they yeild over 4 lbs a piece...
he has the directions for building his buckets...
the key to his buckets is the diameters of the feed hose, and the drain hoses.
why re-invent the wheel if its already working, right?
here is the link for reference
http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/doubleds-med-patient-bucket-diy-mpb-buckets-7883/
so, hes using a single 1/2 feed fitting, (and these are the fittings im going to use btw)
and he has two 1 inch drain fittings.
he is using a 1700gph pump to circulate the water per 5 buckets.
he says water moves quick in all of them.
so i already have a 1700 gph pump, they can be found on ebay once in a while for 60 -80 bucks shipped.
even tho our buckets are bigger, i dont think it matters... what matters is the speed of the water moving through the hoses and making sure there is enough flow across all hoses.
so hes using 2 1700 gph pumps for 10 buckets... using those fittings.
I think thats what i plan to do.
Except, instead of using the hydron rocks with a dripper, we will have aero up top.
sherriberry
New Member
the drain height...
that is somethign up for experimentation.
the buckets with the lower drain heights, just know that they will be the ones towards the lower end of the main drain gutter that goes back to the res (the gutter is at its lowest right before it hits the res, and the pipe has to be lower than the buckets)
i think im going to have one as low as possible there the walls flatten so i can put the drain fitting without leaks.
then have one an inch up from that.
then have one up another 2 inches from that.
I think the least height will be the best personally, but who knows until you try.
that is somethign up for experimentation.
the buckets with the lower drain heights, just know that they will be the ones towards the lower end of the main drain gutter that goes back to the res (the gutter is at its lowest right before it hits the res, and the pipe has to be lower than the buckets)
i think im going to have one as low as possible there the walls flatten so i can put the drain fitting without leaks.
then have one an inch up from that.
then have one up another 2 inches from that.
I think the least height will be the best personally, but who knows until you try.
sherriberry
New Member
fatman, what do you think about this pump.
i found a conversion chart for max head lift vs max psi because they are one in the same...
100 ft is 44psi.
this pump being 125 ft means it is probably around 50psi or more.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=1479
i found a conversion chart for max head lift vs max psi because they are one in the same...
100 ft is 44psi.
this pump being 125 ft means it is probably around 50psi or more.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=1479
fatman7574
New Member
cast iron would have a very short life span