NEW NFT (nutrient film technique) SOG SETUP

sherriberry said:

fatman...

that buhach powder...

does one have to have a flame UNDER that tuna can?

or can one just pour it in the can, and light it from the top, and then forget about it?

how often and how much do you use?

thanks bro

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Light the powder with a match. It is best to also put the can on top of something that can take the heat, like a second can placed up side down. I once put the powder in a glass ash tray and lit it. About 10 minutes later...pop...the ashtray was in many pieces. It just looks like it is bearly smoldering, but under the ash that forms it is red hot. As a preventaive about once per week. If there is an insect infestation about four or five times once every two to three days. It kills and repels live insects but not their eggs.

if its not one thing, its another....

added the 20 micron filter cartridge today...

it leaks around the canister..

so i gotta go get some waterproofing tape or goop to seal the threads on it...

hooked up the posts...

top sprayer on all posts but one closest to the pump... dont spray.

so there is not enough flow to feed all the sprayers because the top ones of 4 out of 5 dont spray.

the leaking in the canister was pretty substantial...

so there goes some of my flow...

and i think theres a few sprayers that probably still leak around the edges...

answer me this fatman...

how often do these damn sprayers clog up once i get them going... because if they do...

im going to abort my current setup, and either run the 3/8 hose external of the posts... that way i can get to each sprayer easily...

or im just going to go back to the ez clone sprayers because this is way too much trouble shooting vs reward.

pulled the filter from the equation...

top sprayers at each post still dont work

going to lowes to try and find some 3/8 hose... or whatver seems to fit these sprayers.

very bummed...

i know what the problem is, and im too lazy to solve it... but on my next setup i know how to...

problem is the pump has a peak psi it can push... so lets say its 30psi.

then each T off, i have a pipe with 5 sprayers on it.

first sprayer sprays the best, 4th not so hot, 5th not at all.

what is happening is just upstream of the first sprayer, the pipe is at 30psi... because it has no leaks between there and the pump.

then, after the first sprayer, there is a pressure drop.. might be 2 psi, whatever, but that first sprayer is a leak.

then, after the second sprayer, another pressure drop.

and since the pipe is a dead end, the pump cant pressurize the top of the post because its already doing all it can do... 30 psi...

but by the top of the pipe, it might only be 20 psi, or whatever is not enough to power a sprayer.

the solution is the tops of the fence post... need another feed pipe...

so what one would have to do is have T's on both ends of the fence post, and 2 feeder pipes that both merge and go back to the pump... that would solve it.

anyway... ive got to get my plants into bloom, so chances are, im going to leave it the way it is, and leave the top site empty in each post, and just run 4 plants a post.

in the meantime, im still going to lowes, still getting the sealant to fix the filter, and still going to check into the 3/8 tubing.

with the risk of these things clogging... im starting to have a hard time justifying using them over the ez clone sprayers...

but i will give it a shot and just see how this goes, and in the meantime build a backup setup using the 3/8 tubing that i can impliment with the drilling of a few holes in the post.

the other solution... and i know fatman is going to LOVE this one...

is the pipe that goes up the post needs to be larger diameter.

essentially... this pipe that goes up the post is a manifold...

and we all know that the invention of a manifold was to replace a pipe which is too thin, and thus cant supply enough flow without too high of friction...

all manifolds are AT LEAST the area of all the smaller pipes that come off it, combined.

in this case, the 1/2 pipe is not enough area to allow the entire pipe to pressurize because there is too much friction and bottlenecking at the bottom, thus creating a pressure drop over the length of the pipe by the time it gets to the top, after its gone by 4 other sprayers.

id bet money that if i swapped out 1 of the pipes with a 3/4 inch pipe, then all sprayers would spray... because id be increasing the diameter of my manifold.

the stem of the sprayer is the shoot that comes off the manifold, and finally the orfice... this is what keeps the pressure high at 30 psi even tho its a low volume pump.... because they allow even LOWER volume to exit the system., this the pressure climbs.

the key is, we want the 30 psi to be uniform across the system... isntead of pressure drops.

this is cured with larger diameter piping...

think of it like a traffic jam... right now we have one, and cars arent getting where they need to be on time...

we need a wider road.

got my plants transplanted, and they are not very happy looking at the moment.

my roots were very tangled, it was a chore to get them appart, but i think i did a pretty good job.

anyway...

they are in the posts, and i have the sprayers on for about 2 min, and off for about 3 min.

keep in mind, they are coming from my nft table, which had continuous flow that was somewhat deep at all times, and then sprayers came on once every 20 min or so.

im very surprized by the size of the root masses in my large rubbermade tub.

it is one of those huge ones, and i have about 100 holes in the lid for the plants...

i had a plant with large, thick, about 3 ft long roots... pretty amazing.

if this fence post stuff doesnt work out, hell, i might just stick with those tubs, and as plants develop, pull the smallest 70 plants (roots arent as tangled) and leave the other 30 or so... and just use tubs for veg and bloom... because its obviously working great AND i could add the micron sprayers to that setup very easily and take away the ez clone sprayers.

im glad im testing so many different ways right now so i can find the best way and just go with it.

sherriberry said:

got my plants transplanted, and they are not very happy looking at the moment.

my roots were very tangled, it was a chore to get them appart, but i think i did a pretty good job.

anyway...

they are in the posts, and i have the sprayers on for about 2 min, and off for about 3 min.

keep in mind, they are coming from my nft table, which had continuous flow that was somewhat deep at all times, and then sprayers came on once every 20 min or so.

im very surprized by the size of the root masses in my large rubbermade tub.

it is one of those huge ones, and i have about 100 holes in the lid for the plants...

i had a plant with large, thick, about 3 ft long roots... pretty amazing.

if this fence post stuff doesnt work out, hell, i might just stick with those tubs, and as plants develop, pull the smallest 70 plants (roots arent as tangled) and leave the other 30 or so... and just use tubs for veg and bloom... because its obviously working great AND i could add the micron sprayers to that setup very easily and take away the ez clone sprayers.

im glad im testing so many different ways right now so i can find the best way and just go with it.

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good to hear sb, got the girls transplanted finally.. good shit.

so... should i wait for the plants to come out of shock and adjust to their new enviroment before i put them into bloom?

ive heard stress will cause them to be male...

are seeds gender genetic, or can stress sway them to males?

i did 12 12 last night for the first time, but im starting to think i should put them back into 16 8 or something until they look upright and healthy again.

(i had to rip some roots, so plants arent happy right now, and their absorbtion method has to go from being under water to absorbing mist)

fatman...

went to lowes... they only have 1/2 ID and 1/4 od lines... no 3/8.

They have 1/2 T's, so i guess the part that im confused on is can i just punch a hole in the 1/2 line with the tool they sell to poke a hole... and plug the T directly into that?

Im building another room, and want to do this your way this time.

What have you bought so far? It would be a liitle moreexpensive but less prone to leak if you used 3/4" PVC pipe from the pump to your troughs. Branch off woith 3/4" PVC pipe and run a 3/4" PVC pipe between each pair of the through the length of the trough with 3/4" PVC Tee down to 1/4" female pipe thread and screw one of these Tee's with a 1/4" threaded stem into each adapter using some silicone pipe tape. http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-3005-swivel-branch-tee-polypro-14-x-14-nptf.aspx Tie the end of all the pipes to gether with Tee fittings so they are all lopped together. Plug two 10" to 12" long pieces of 1/4" outside diameter tubing into the John Guest fittings. Plug a mister into each of these 1/4" tubes. The 10" to 12" long 1/4" tubing with its fitting can justbe unplugged and saoked in a liitle acid or veinegar as needed if plugged. Just keep a few extra to swap out with thi oses being cleaned of clogs.

im considering using some sort of a tub, and putting a plant site at each corner of the lid of the tub, and putting the sprayers in there... and putting some 2x6's on the floor on thier tall side, and keeping the buckets up off the ground, then then having a drilled hole in the bottom of the tub for the drain hole, and then having that drain hose go into a big pipe that is slightly tilted, and runs back to the main res.... i need a small pump to kick the water back up to the top of the res probably, unless i sit the plant buckets up higher.

thoughts?

ive bought nothing yet

sherriberry said:

im considering using some sort of a tub, and putting a plant site at each corner of the lid of the tub, and putting the sprayers in there... and putting some 2x6's on the floor on thier tall side, and keeping the buckets up off the ground, then then having a drilled hole in the bottom of the tub for the drain hole, and then having that drain hose go into a big pipe that is slightly tilted, and runs back to the main res.... i need a small pump to kick the water back up to the top of the res probably, unless i sit the plant buckets up higher.
thoughts?

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Chain hardware stores sell laundry/utility sinks for about $30 each. They are basically 24" square boxes about 18 inches deep. They already come with legs (detachable), sloped bottoms for full drainage and a drain hole. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xnr/R-100415928/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
There is a thread in this forum where they are used with a high pressure aero system. https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/254876-my-true-hp-aero-plug.html

i looked at the thread, and got tired of reading... did they say what they use for a lid over the sink?

what do you think about putting 4 plants in one tub, one at each corner?

i know they would starve eachother in the middle for light, but who cares... it would be like one plant with 4 main colas...

making the clones is cake... ive already got too many of those

i wrote something on the aero thread, you can respond here or there, thanks

They are commonly just using a piece of acrylic plastic with holes cut into it. The pods shown look strange as they are insulated and likely covered with panda wrap as they are in a basement. Typically four plants per cube. ie one per square foot. They can be used for SOG but usyually at 2 per square foot rather than 4. Most of the thread is about setting up high pressure aerp or air atomizer systems. Witha Iwaki pump and the misters you should be able to put out plants with hair roots just like an air atomizer or high pressure system. Your system would just have a solemiod on the water line from the pump witha timers so that the sprayers only spearyed the plants a few seconds every few minutesm but the pump would run continously. It makes the palnts internoda spaces a lot closer to gether so that the plants are shorter and the buds fatter and denser. Also the grow times are cut by about 25%. Real low EC nutrients are used as the plants use about 10% as much nutrients and water.

with the 1gph sprayers we are using and our wkiwkwiwkwiwiwi pump..

what is the best on off cycle times you have found... for posts, and for larger chambers

sherriberry said:

with the 1gph sprayers we are using and our wkiwkwiwkwiwiwi pump..

what is the best on off cycle times you have found... for posts, and for larger chambers

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Posts about half spray and half divert, as you are really just NTF witout excess water back up and better oxygen take up as the roots are able to take up greater amounts of oxygen from the surrounding air between sprays than than they can take up from the water if sprayed constantly or if kept submerged or soaked with water. With chamber and medium pressure about 5 seconds spray and two minutes divert. Myabe even less spray as it depends on tubing so izes types and lengths and also where you placed your solenoid. There is not as much spray after the solenoid closes with medium pressure as there is with high pressure using the 1 gph misters. The high pressure systems are running three times the pressure so if the solenoids are not near the misters they continue to spray until the pressure bleeds off.

fatman7574 said:

Posts about half spray and half divert, as you are really just NTF witout excess water back up and better oxygen take up as the roots are able to take up greater amounts of oxygen from the surrounding air between sprays than than they can take up from the water if sprayed constantly or if kept submerged or soaked with water. With chamber and medium pressure about 5 seconds spray and two minutes divert. Myabe even less spray as it depends on tubing so izes types and lengths and also where you placed your solenoid. There is not as much spray after the solenoid closes with medium pressure as there is with high pressure using the 1 gph misters. The high pressure systems are running three times the pressure so if the solenoids are not near the misters they continue to spray until the pressure bleeds off.

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I thought id post it here man
http://www.urbangardenershop.com.au/product/1941/default.asp

Im not sure if the sprayers come with it but there listed seperatley as

And they are $6 a piece
The system is near $800 but keep in mind that those intelli cycle timres are like $270 alone, there the only timers in OZ that have unlimited cycle settings and let u set it down to the second, fucking sux.

You can build much better systems for much less. Just read through this thread. https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/254876-my-true-hp-aero-plug.html Tree farmer has much less in his system and it is much nicer than the retailed scabbed together 12 Volt system you reference. The system you reference does not even seem to include an accumaltor (captive air ) tank. There are several timers readily available that work every bit as well at a lower cost. One of the posters atomizer even makes his own timers. The misters used with the high pressure aero are the same as the medium pressure systems. You can buy misters for less than $1 each. http://www.dripirrigation.com/index.php?cPath=43&sort=2a&page=3 Or buy the high tech ones that are made of polymers that resist calcium build up for $40 each. Omron H5CX-A timers are avilable in Europe. They allow cycling 0.001 s to 9.999 s, 0.01 s to 99.99 s, 0.1 s to 999.9 s, 1 s to 9999 s, 0.1 min to 999.9 min, 1 min to 9999 min, 0.1 h to 999.9 h, 1 h to 9999 h , 1s to 99min59s , 1min to 99h59min. They retail for about $175 but can be bought on ebay quite often for $50 to $75. http://www.ia.omron.com/product/item/h5cx4004g/index.html