Plant Moisture Stress - Symptoms and Solutions

[wyteboi]

Promix and organic nutes dont mix too well. Promix is just peat moss and no microbes. If you are going to go organic nutes with Peat moss, you need to amend it with compost, EWC, or composted manure to get a nice colony of microbes.

Get some synthetic nutes to get your plants on track.

Yes this is the answer i was looking for
i was gonna go with soluble microbes OR soluble food , i think i will just get the soluble food. my promix did come with micorrizal (cant spell) but i dont think that micorizia is the same as benificial bacteria? plus im sure it takes some time for the bugs to "colonize" or whatever they do.

P.S. I hate peat moss.

ME TOO! thats my next Q: IF i really wanted to stick to organics (no big deal just tryin to learn) would it be better to use a soil mix. do the microbes do better in soil then in peat? also does worm castings contain microbes ? i know "castings" are rich in micro's an macro's(and im sure other good shit) but what are the other benifits of castings in the mix?
i dont have access to compost right this second (lookin into it though for sure) thats why i ask about soil/peat/worm castings.

Thanks SO much dave an ub!
i used to use MG mix w/nute balls +blood meal+bone meal and NEVER had major probs like this until i switched to MGmix + liquid food. so do u guys think that all them years i was doin good , it was all because of the nute balls in the mg?

wb

 

[DaveCoulier]

Yes this is the answer i was looking for
i was gonna go with soluble microbes OR soluble food , i think i will just get the soluble food. my promix did come with micorrizal (cant spell) but i dont think that micorizia is the same as benificial bacteria? plus im sure it takes some time for the bugs to "colonize" or whatever they do.

ME TOO! thats my next Q: IF i really wanted to stick to organics (no big deal just tryin to learn) would it be better to use a soil mix. do the microbes do better in soil then in peat? also does worm castings contain microbes ? i know "castings" are rich in micro's an macro's(and im sure other good shit) but what are the other benifits of castings in the mix?
i dont have access to compost right this second (lookin into it though for sure) thats why i ask about soil/peat/worm castings.

Thanks SO much dave an ub!
i used to use MG mix w/nute balls +blood meal+bone meal and NEVER had major probs like this until i switched to MGmix + liquid food. so do u guys think that all them years i was doin good , it was all because of the nute balls in the mg?

wb

The myco in the soil are definitely microbes and they do help..but they take too long to colonize your root system. I thought they were good until UB helped me realize they just arent a good fit for MJ. If you innoculant a plant with a myco additive you can expect 50-60% colonization after a year or two. In a few months expect no more than 30%, yet were already harvesting at 3 months.. The microbes you get from compost or EWC are a better fit for us. EWC helps your soil retain moisture, as well aerate it.

You shouldnt have much trouble finding compost. Are there no stores in your town that sell it? I can pm you a link to the soil Im gonna use for my next grow if you'd like. Even with shipping its cheaper than buying some FFOF, etc from my local hydro store.

 

[wyteboi]

The myco in the soil are definitely microbes and they do help..but they take too long to colonize your root system. I thought they were good until UB helped me realize they just arent a good fit for MJ. If you innoculant a plant with a myco additive you can expect 50-60% colonization after a year or two. In a few months expect no more than 30%, yet were already harvesting at 3 months.. The microbes you get from compost or EWC are a better fit for us. EWC helps your soil retain moisture, as well aerate it.

You shouldnt have much trouble finding compost. Are there no stores in your town that sell it? I can pm you a link to the soil Im gonna use for my next grow if you'd like. Even with shipping its cheaper than buying some FFOF, etc from my local hydro store.

yea send me a link please.
i just didnt know what kind of compost to get?
also whats EWC ?

THANKS again!

 

[wyteboi]

One more thing , could you recommend me a synthetic nute? i am scared of taste issues with chems? or does taste even have anything to do with non soluble/soluble foods?
i read alot but i cant believe everything , i got to stick to facts and hard evedince myself

 

[DaveCoulier]

EWC= Earth worm castings. Cutting Edge Solutions is supposed to be good, but I dont know what their prices are. I got their lineup by just writing to them and asking for samples. 6 one quart bottles for free. Email them and ask if they have any sample packs to send out. UB can no doubt direct you to some good cheap nutes that will get the job done. I think he fancies Jacks Classic, or maybe Schultz. Theres a mixed bag of opinions regarding taste with organic nutes/chem nutes, flushing/no flushing. Experiment for yourself so you can always be certain what is truth and what isnt.

 

[riddleme]

One more thing , could you recommend me a synthetic nute? i am scared of taste issues with chems? or does taste even have anything to do with non soluble/soluble foods?
i read alot but i cant believe everything , i got to stick to facts and hard evedince myself

I would be willing to bet that are few folks in a blind taste test that could tell the difference between properly cured organic vs non organic bud

that being said

Jack's is what I use, but Peters, DynaGro are other good ones UB has stated often

 

[Stoney384]

I got a girl that wants a little bit of water everyday because it is so dry in her grow space.
She is in the flower stage for over a week now.
And the nutes say to feed every other watering.

My question is should i be feeding her every other day or should i just feed her nutes once a week?

Thanks in advance!!!!

 

[DaveCoulier]

I got a girl that wants a little bit of water everyday because it is so dry in her grow space.
She is in the flower stage for over a week now.
And the nutes say to feed every other watering.

My question is should i be feeding her every other day or should i just feed her nutes once a week?

Thanks in advance!!!!

You could feed every other day if you reduce the level of nutes. Watering that often Id drop it down to 25%, or you can just give her whatever you normally give once a week.

Its probably more of a pain in the ass to mix up nutes every other day though.

What type of soil do you have the plant in that requires watering every day? Are you using a small pot? My ladies in 3 gallon pots get fed every 3 days during flowering.

 

[wyteboi]

i dont know shit about organics and synthetic , all i know is my shit always taste WAY better then the hydro guys i know? (and i never flush)
well UB u use synthetic and u dont flush, so is it just a dirt vs water thing?
also should i use EWC and compost in my next mix (on the few i keep organic) or does dwc have good bacteria in it too?

I am so glad u guys are here , i would hate to have to downgrade to hydro!
thanks dave and UB!!

 

[ihateyourdogs]

Original post dated 12/26/2009:

using CFLS in stealth grow. lights are 2-3 inches above plants. about 4 weeks into growing. organic. non problem plant is northern skunk from peakseeds BC. problem plant is northernberry from peakseeds BC. the plant grew really big leaves and started to slump over. i let it be a couple of days and then added the support. the plant is actually leaning against the support, not tied in anyway. i've noticed the plant looks twisted and almost deformed. the leaves look to me like some pics ive seen of Mg deficiency.? had to use my laptop to take pictures so as you can imagine its very low quality and difficult to do. i grow in a medium of Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Mix, Hi-Yield bone meal (slowrelease), Lady Bug Glittering Greensand with Iron, Feritlome Seed and Cutting Perlite, and a little of a mushroom compost mix a friend of mine made. i use water from the tap that sits out for at least 48-72 hours before any is used. I occasionally feed water that is from vac cleaning my freshwater fish tank. i also sometimes use a small amount of fish emulsion. i added a minute amount of epsom salt to the soil about 2 weeks ago because the plants were looking slightly yellow. in case of a ph problem, and also for more N, i mixed in some used coffee grounds today. i added a little more epsom salt as well then watered with the fish tank water.

so...
any suggestions? just doesn't look right to me

That was about a week ago.
So.
I watered heavy enough to come out the bottom. The runoff was mostly clear. tested with fish tank water test strips. showed high amounts of Mg (no surprise) and calcium. had ok N and ph was somewhere between 6.6-7.0 sorry thats not very accurate. so about 5 days later this is what she looks like. the other plant is still doing fine and has had roughly the same treatment.
what is going on here??
the first two pics are from the 26th of december and the last two from yesterday

 

[Uncle Ben]

i dont know shit about organics and synthetic , all i know is my shit always taste WAY better then the hydro guys i know? (and i never flush)
well UB u use synthetic and u dont flush, so is it just a dirt vs water thing?
also should i use EWC and compost in my next mix (on the few i keep organic) or does dwc have good bacteria in it too?

I am so glad u guys are here , i would hate to have to downgrade to hydro!
thanks dave and UB!!

Organics are no different than synthetics. Plants require certain elements in the form of salts. Whether they get that "organically" or via salts out of box is immaterial.

Can't help ya with the DWC question, don't think your concern regarding bacteria is of any real world value.

 

[wyteboi]

Can't help ya with the DWC question, don't think your concern regarding bacteria is of any real world value.

fuck i meant EWC ......again oops
is it alot better enviroment for microbes then my peat mix?

 

[wyteboi]

also could you please recommend me a good soluble food for my dirt? all the ones i am looking at have very low N , or is that normal for a synthetic food?

 

[riddleme]

also could you please recommend me a good soluble food for my dirt? all the ones i am looking at have very low N , or is that normal for a synthetic food?

Jack's Classic veg = 20-20-20 and Bloom = 10-30-20 right on thier website they tell you to mix them for 30-50-40, what I use

 

[Uncle Ben]

also could you please recommend me a good soluble food for my dirt? all the ones i am looking at have very low N , or is that normal for a synthetic food?

A low N amount is normal for most of your cannabis specific products, not normal regarding normal plant requirements. Why your resellers promote such crap is anybody's guess.

Your goal is to produce and maintain as much foliage as possible until harvest. A 30-10-10, 9-3-6, 18-6-8 will support that function. A high K food will not support that function. You want the first # (N) to be equal to or higher than the last (K). Make a trip to a normal store like Walmart or your neighborly nursery and find such a fertilizer.

 

[wyteboi]

ok i understand. i dont give a fuck if the food is for pot or not, so walmart it is

As you know i am having major probs.
i have been using nothing but a organic 3-1-3 and RO water for my next batch and the problem is showing in the lower leaves already. (yellow with bronze spots, and some are still healthy green with the spots.)
i understand your outlook on organics and the "hype" but why would that mix cause a lockout or even death? Does peat moss kill everything good in the soil?
This whole mess started in MG potting mix with organic food with same results. and the only time i could get a very noticable change was when i replanted into promix and then within a couple weeks they went from dead to nice full, healthy , dark green (i detroyed the roots when replanting and they didnt get a "bad" shock either)
they looked SO good i put them into bloom and within a week the leaves were starting to droop and the yellow started again.?

Is it impossible to use organic food in promix or MG?

I hate to keep askin all these questions, but i am just tryin to figure out why i never had a prob for 10 years until now. I have been reading for weeks (on top of the reading i have been doin for years) and i mean alot of reading about everything about plants not just mj of course.
(hell i have learned ALOT from just this thread , thanks ub.)
i used to use MG mix and a lil bone meal and blood meal, i have even just used MG mix with NO food and have had great results. now why would MG mix and liquid organic be ANY different then MG and powder?
i am so lost .....

anyways thanks for all the help UB and dave.

 

[Kriegs]

ok i understand. i dont give a fuck if the food is for pot or not, so walmart it is

As you know i am having major probs.
i have been using nothing but a organic 3-1-3 and RO water for my next batch and the problem is showing in the lower leaves already. (yellow with bronze spots, and some are still healthy green with the spots.)
i understand your outlook on organics and the "hype" but why would that mix cause a lockout or even death? Does peat moss kill everything good in the soil?
This whole mess started in MG potting mix with organic food with same results. and the only time i could get a very noticable change was when i replanted into promix and then within a couple weeks they went from dead to nice full, healthy , dark green (i detroyed the roots when replanting and they didnt get a "bad" shock either)
they looked SO good i put them into bloom and within a week the leaves were starting to droop and the yellow started again.?

Is it impossible to use organic food in promix or MG?

I hate to keep askin all these questions, but i am just tryin to figure out why i never had a prob for 10 years until now. I have been reading for weeks (on top of the reading i have been doin for years) and i mean alot of reading about everything about plants not just mj of course.
(hell i have learned ALOT from just this thread , thanks ub.)
i used to use MG mix and a lil bone meal and blood meal, i have even just used MG mix with NO food and have had great results. now why would MG mix and liquid organic be ANY different then MG and powder?
i am so lost .....

anyways thanks for all the help UB and dave.

Hey, wyteboi.. Just a procedural suggestion: why not split your grows into 2 or more sets of plants where one set is in your tried-and-true soil mix, and another is experimental (the Promix and such)? Might be a way for you to find a new working forumla without having all eggs in one basket. Just a thought...

 

[wyteboi]

Hey, wyteboi.. Just a procedural suggestion: why not split your grows into 2 or more sets of plants where one set is in your tried-and-true soil mix, and another is experimental (the Promix and such)? Might be a way for you to find a new working forumla without having all eggs in one basket. Just a thought...

Thanks for response kriegs !
IF that problem would have been with the promix only and not the mg too , then yes i would go back , but going back to the same thing i am doing now probably wont help.
i dont like experimenting , i thought the only difference in liquid organic an powder organic is just that, 1 is powder and one is not. ??
basically what im sayin is why go buy more blood meal when i have some right here in a bottle instead of a bag.

i am just really obsessed with figureing out how this happened and WHY.

wb

 

[DaveCoulier]

ok i understand. i dont give a fuck if the food is for pot or not, so walmart it is

As you know i am having major probs.
i have been using nothing but a organic 3-1-3 and RO water for my next batch and the problem is showing in the lower leaves already. (yellow with bronze spots, and some are still healthy green with the spots.)
i understand your outlook on organics and the "hype" but why would that mix cause a lockout or even death? Does peat moss kill everything good in the soil?
This whole mess started in MG potting mix with organic food with same results. and the only time i could get a very noticable change was when i replanted into promix and then within a couple weeks they went from dead to nice full, healthy , dark green (i detroyed the roots when replanting and they didnt get a "bad" shock either)
they looked SO good i put them into bloom and within a week the leaves were starting to droop and the yellow started again.?

Is it impossible to use organic food in promix or MG?

I hate to keep askin all these questions, but i am just tryin to figure out why i never had a prob for 10 years until now. I have been reading for weeks (on top of the reading i have been doin for years) and i mean alot of reading about everything about plants not just mj of course.
(hell i have learned ALOT from just this thread , thanks ub.)
i used to use MG mix and a lil bone meal and blood meal, i have even just used MG mix with NO food and have had great results. now why would MG mix and liquid organic be ANY different then MG and powder?
i am so lost .....

anyways thanks for all the help UB and dave.

Heres something for you to read about peat moss.

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/newforum/root/needing-bulk-peat-moss-t8335.html

Its left me a little more confused now haha.

I do know SPM is often blended with compost in soil mixes, so I wouldn't say SPM is killing the good microbes in it.

Im sure UB can shed some light on whether SPM is really sterile or not.


Regarding the yellowing with bronze spots, Ive experienced that multiple times.

I experienced it on one lady, and had no clue what it was. I thought I may have been under-feeding her, so I gave her full strength nutes, and it stopped spreading(still lost the affected leaves), and she is doing great. 5 weeks into flower now, and no more symptoms like that on FS nutes. Nothing else was changed.

Another time, I was over-watering my second batch of plants and they all developed the same symptoms. I cut back on the water, and they all grew out of it.

The third time, my ph pen was fucked up and I was incorrectly ph'ing my water, and they all got yellowing at the bottom with bronze spots, and the upper leaves were still green but with bronze spotting. I quit using the pen, and said "Fuck Ph'ing" and the symptoms went away and they look so much better.

Hopefully one of those are your problems and you can fix it.

Btw, I assume you're using a cal/mag supplement with the RO water. Which makes me ask UB, is there sufficient Cal/Mag in moist soil mixes(amended with dolomite) that a Cal/Mag supp isn't necessary if using RO water?

 

[wyteboi]

Heres something for you to read about peat moss.

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/newforum/root/needing-bulk-peat-moss-t8335.html

Its left me a little more confused now haha.

I do know SPM is often blended with compost in soil mixes, so I wouldn't say SPM is killing the good microbes in it.

Im sure UB can shed some light on whether SPM is really sterile or not.


Regarding the yellowing with bronze spots, Ive experienced that multiple times.

I experienced it on one lady, and had no clue what it was. I thought I may have been under-feeding her, so I gave her full strength nutes, and it stopped spreading(still lost the affected leaves), and she is doing great. 5 weeks into flower now, and no more symptoms like that on FS nutes. Nothing else was changed.

Another time, I was over-watering my second batch of plants and they all developed the same symptoms. I cut back on the water, and they all grew out of it.

The third time, my ph pen was fucked up and I was incorrectly ph'ing my water, and they all got yellowing at the bottom with bronze spots, and the upper leaves were still green but with bronze spotting. I quit using the pen, and said "Fuck Ph'ing" and the symptoms went away and they look so much better.

Hopefully one of those are your problems and you can fix it.

Btw, I assume you're using a cal/mag supplement with the RO water. Which makes me ask UB, is there sufficient Cal/Mag in moist soil mixes(amended with dolomite) that a Cal/Mag supp isn't necessary if using RO water?

well its not over water
fuck ph'ing with dirt (real dirt)
my food has micros in it too, so no need for a supplement. i think most foods have micros in it? i know some dont but i think all the good ones do.
also the promix has micros/macros too. i added mycorrizai too but i dont know if thats enough or the same as benificial bacteria?