MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods

[Atomizer]

I think once you have a good quality of mist that your happy with, all you`d really need to alter is the cycle timing. With endless adjustment options some air/water combo`s could lead to the same thing which might get a bit confusing.

I came across a snippet of info regarding the sn 30609-5 nozzles which may be useful.
Using a 16" syphon height, 30psi air @ 1.66cfm and 37ml/min liquid flow, they generate droplets in a range of 4um- >40um. The mean air velocity in the chamber would be around 4.4 cm/sec (1.75"/sec) so its quite slow moving. Maybe that would account for the atomix using two opposing nozzles, 4um droplets wouldn`t travel too far before evaporating.

 

[fatman7574]

I think once you have a good quality of mist that your happy with, all you`d really need to alter is the cycle timing. With endless adjustment options some air/water combo`s could lead to the same thing which might get a bit confusing.

I came across a snippet of info regarding the sn 30609-5 nozzles which may be useful.
Using a 16" syphon height, 30psi air @ 1.66cfm and 37ml/min liquid flow, they generate droplets in a range of 4um- >40um. The mean air velocity in the chamber would be around 4.4 cm/sec (1.75"/sec) so its quite slow moving. Maybe that would account for the atomix using two opposing nozzles, 4um droplets wouldn`t travel too far before evaporating.

Glad I did not order any nozzles that smallthen. I would more go for m droplets of 40 to 70 at a bit higher velocity. I think for the larger ods the larger #28 will work fine with something betweem #8 and #11 for the smaller pods. Ithink the 5 and 6 would probably work better on small cloners. I really do not think siphon is a good way to go, but was more of a retail packing convenience. Too much of the compessed airs energy would be needed to power the venturi for siphoning the water up to the nozzle.

 

[Atomizer]

37ml/min is quite a flowrate, 2x 30609-5`s would equate to one 0.04oz biocontrols nozzle, TF has the equivalent of 16x 30609-5`s in each pod.. just not as expensive
I`d say the syphon was used on the atomix to make it more plug and play or perhaps just to deliver a very low flowrate using minimum components. Stable gravity feed needs a constant water level, a flow adjustment tap of some description and a solenoid which eat into the profit margin

 

[fatman7574]

I really do not understand waht you are trying to say. You give a flow arte for a cos nstant spary per minute. That spray if one second per minute is quite small. That is why I said I am glad that I did not order such small nozzles. But you say that is a large amount of so pary, then you say but that would mean using 16 to be equalt to waht is being used in the High Pressure Pod. I llok at y sa I am not ging to be sryaing cos nstatlt d so that viloume is too small. There talking a per/min g flow arte when were talking a per second flow usage.

I am intending that the water level always be very nearly consistant as it will be maintained with an auto fill system from a main reservoir. As much as they charged for their systems I don't think they needed to worry about a profit margain. I think that margain was quite large and allowed al lot of wiggle room. I think placing the reservoir above the nozzles would have increased the overall foot print, therefore shipping cost, and that was was the major deciding factor as adding a small cheap flaot sytem and pump would not have added a major cost. I think they also wanted to kr eep the foot print small as the ctaula growing are is not that large considering the cost. To have a higher shipping cost, a larger foot print yet still hav a samll growing area would make the whole system seem absurdly impractical. But yes if they were greedy any corner they could cut would have brough a greater profit. I think the factor that their actual chamber size was not large made the use of smaller nozzles more appropriatte. Their chambers were likely about 16 cubic feet. Mine will be at least 22.5. maybe 27 cubic feet. I am getting to old to want to bend over when I do not need to. Plus it will keep more of the roots in the air. The actual cost to the manafacturer for a solenoid and an auto water top off system would have been minimal considering the cost for the atomix sytsems. I am also still planning on drain to waste so a reservoir under the chambers really is not very practical.

 

[akaru]

To really save some dough, I noticed a bunch of way cheaper Hago nozzles. For $15/ea. looks like a good way to experiment. They have identical specs to the Delavans.

What do you guys think a good pressure would be for root penetration vs. overdoing it. That is, if all other factors were to remain the same and you could get your 40-60 micron droplets at any pressure, what would be optimal? Though I suppose the pressure setting depends on chamber size.

 

[fatman7574]

Plastomatic plastic pressure relief valve. A bit large at 1" but at $39.95 it would work great on a HP aero set up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PLASTOMATIC-1-AUTOMATIC-CONTROL-VALVE_W0QQitemZ350281079418QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518e611a7a

The Hago waste oil nozzles are the same apparently. I haven't look at the Hago site so I have no idea if the outter housing is stamless steel or plating. That would be really nice if that was a stainless housing. I paid $19 for the Delavans in brass.

 

[fatman7574]

Spec Sheet on the Hago siphoning niozzles matching the Delavan:
http://hago.danfoss.com/PCMPDF/DKBDPD080E122.pdf Sizes 2 through 11. The outter housing that would be exposed inside the chamber is stailess steel. The actual stem inside is brass. The autocad drawings sure looks just like the Delavan.

 

[Atomizer]

I really do not understand what you are trying to say. You give a flow rate for a constant spray per minute. That spray if one second per minute is quite small. That is why I said I am glad that I did not order such small nozzles. But you say that is a large amount of spray, then you say but that would mean using 16 to be equal to what is being used in the High Pressure Pod. I llok at y sa I am not going to be spraying constant so that volume is too small. There talking a per/min flow rate when were talking a per second flow usage.

Hi fatman
I tend to go off on a tangent without an explanation sometimes
The reference to TF`s pods and 16 nozzles was just to compare and illustrate the flowrates of each type with an equal timing cycle.
My thinking goes something like this, TF is using 4 nozzles running 142ml/min each with a 2sec/10min cycle (2.71L/day) so
2x 60309-5 nozzles running 37ml/min on a 2sec/75 sec cycle will deliver almost the same volume (2.76L/day).
The highest spec gravity flowrate of the #5 nozzle is 72ml/min, so 2 nozzles will deliver the same 2.71L/day using a 2sec/2.5min cycle. They have headroom if you use short timings similar to the atomix if thats anything to go by.
The lowest gravity flow from a single #11 nozzle is 86ml/min using the minimum spec air pressure.
A single #11 nozzle might not provide sufficient coverage as the mean air velocity in the chamber will be even lower than the 60309-5 due to greater water mass and lower pressure available to drive it. More nozzles will increase the pause durations to keep daily liquid throughput the same, perhaps radically different to atomix timings.

Testing is the only way to get answers

 

[travish413]

Atomizer,
I scored an IBC tank today! I live in a rural area so I knew if looked hard enough i would find one. Well, I just happen to drive by a farm and saw three sitting by a mans farm shop and I went and ask if he would sell one. He sold it to me for 15 dollars and its only been used to hold water for his cattle. It looks brand new. I am going to cut it in half and use it for my chamber.
Fatman
I have a question about your system... If you can get these very small droplets with very low air pressure then will a 200 dollar air compressor work? I just noticed the compressors you use cost around 700 and I didnt want to really spend that when I am half way into the accumaltor tank and water pump system...

 

[tree farmer]

i think that testing is the only way to get an acurate idea of what mist cycle you will need. one big mistake i made at first was go with a mist cycle that i had read the atomix was on. every chambers misting cycle will be different depending on the size and placement of the nozzels. also pump based HP aero will be somewhat different than air based settings. ive noticed the hardest thing to learn is that the roots have to stay in a state where water doesnt pool on them or you destroy the fuzz. it takes very little with my 4 nozzels in the small chambers i have to keep the roots from getting too wet. i have even had to cut back more on the misting during the night period to keep from over wetting.

i think the best thing to do when designing the chambers and nozzels is not to worry about not getting enough mist but rather worry about not having the ability to dial it down far enough.

 

[travish413]

i think that testing is the only way to get an acurate idea of what mist cycle you will need. one big mistake i made at first was go with a mist cycle that i had read the atomix was on. every chambers misting cycle will be different depending on the size and placement of the nozzels. also pump based HP aero will be somewhat different than air based settings. ive noticed the hardest thing to learn is that the roots have to stay in a state where water doesnt pool on them or you destroy the fuzz. it takes very little with my 4 nozzels in the small chambers i have to keep the roots from getting too wet. i have even had to cut back more on the misting during the night period to keep from over wetting.

i think the best thing to do when designing the chambers and nozzels is not to worry about not getting enough mist but rather worry about not having the ability to dial it down far enough.

So TF, I am going to cut this ibc tank down to about 14in tall and it is 3ft by 4ft. that makes it 24 c/ft... I am using the biocontrols knozzles that you use. How many do you think would suffice?

 

[travish413]

One more thing... I guess the best way to place these knozzles would be around the perimeter of the chamber and not on the bottom? I would assume the roots would get in the way after a while if they were directly underneath.

 

[tree farmer]

travish
i would think that 4 of the .25 orifice bio nozzels would work fine in there. or maybe 6to 8 of the .16 orifice nozzels to get more even spread if you have lots of small girls in there. you need to be able to get 1 to 2 sec pulses though to make sure you have the ability to not over wet things. you can always turn the cycle to 4 seconds but if your limited on your abliity to go 2 sec or your sytem doesnt perform well with 1 sec then you have to increase the pause time. it is better to be able to dial the on cycle then to have to lengthen the pause time. my system i can go 1 sec but because of the tubing runs to the pods 1 sec isnt very effective so i have to use 2 sec. Two .25 nozzels would be enough for me in each chamber but instead of removing 2 im going to just install 4 .16 nozzels and that should give me the needed control.

im a big fan of top mounted nozzels as they are out of the way and the mist will naturally fall by gravity downward. although vertically in a tall chamber i think would be ideal. your chamber at 14 inches i would think top would work best.

 

[travish413]

travish
i would think that 4 of the .25 orifice bio nozzels would work fine in there. or maybe 6to 8 of the .16 orifice nozzels to get more even spread if you have lots of small girls in there. you need to be able to get 1 to 2 sec pulses though to make sure you have the ability to not over wet things. you can always turn the cycle to 4 seconds but if your limited on your abliity to go 2 sec or your sytem doesnt perform well with 1 sec then you have to increase the pause time. it is better to be able to dial the on cycle then to have to lengthen the pause time. my system i can go 1 sec but because of the tubing runs to the pods 1 sec isnt very effective so i have to use 2 sec. Two .25 nozzels would be enough for me in each chamber but instead of removing 2 im going to just install 4 .16 nozzels and that should give me the needed control.

im a big fan of top mounted nozzels as they are out of the way and the mist will naturally fall by gravity downward. although vertically in a tall chamber i think would be ideal. your chamber at 14 inches i would think top would work best.

Thanks! I think i am going to go with the .16 knozzles too. I will be running a 3/8" tube from the pump, but I will have to reduce that when tee off because my tank is 1". I thought I would then tap into the 3/8" tube with a 1/4" to the knozzles. What size of tubing are you running from your pump?

 

[tree farmer]

half inch from pump to acc. tank and half inch thru solenoid to distribution manifold then to 4 1/4 inch lines. one1/4 inch to each pod.

 

[travish413]

half inch from pump to acc. tank and half inch thru solenoid to distribution manifold then to 4 1/4 inch lines. one1/4 inch to each pod.

Was trying to get an idea and see if I might be able to have a 1 second option.

 

[Atomizer]

Hi Travish
You got a real bargain price on that ibc. To get an almost instant on/off to the mist pulse, keep the pipe run after the solenoid as short as possible and use an adv for each nozzle. You could use a solenoid at each nozzle to do the same thing but thats expensive. Avoid using any type of soft tubing after the solenoid as it tends to expand under pressure. When the solenoid closes the tubing prolongs the mist cycle as it contracts back to size.

 

[travish413]

Hi Travish
You got a real bargain price on that ibc. To get an almost instant on/off to the mist pulse, keep the pipe run after the solenoid as short as possible and use an adv for each nozzle. You could use a solenoid at each nozzle to do the same thing but thats expensive. Avoid using any type of soft tubing after the solenoid as it tends to expand under pressure. When the solenoid closes the tubing prolongs the mist cycle as it contracts back to size.

Yeah, I couldnt believe I got that for the price i didIm not sure what you are talking about when you say "adv" and I guess i just cap the end of my run off after the solenoid and of course after my 1/4' lines that come off of the main line?

 

[Atomizer]

The adv acts like a pressure sensitive solenoid which keeps pressure in the line between the solenoid and each nozzle. If the line pressure has to go from 0psi-90psi-0psi during the mist pulse, it will run for longer than a second.

 

[travish413]

Atomizer
I just purchased 2 of the 4 head netafim coolnet foggers, 6 of the adv's that allow for the one second pulse and 6 of the small misters that i believe they were called dgt misters. I was going to try and screw them in the netafim adv's or see if i could find a way to screw the biocontrol nozzles in the netafim adv's. I am going to test all of these nozzles and see what works best for me.