Advanced Stealth Hydro Bubbeponics Thread

[MostlyCrazy]

Yep, distilled water doesn't have any shit in it! Bad shit or good shit! I have the opposite problem. Just did a res change and the base tap water was 500ppm! Holy shit! Now my PPM is hanging around 2100ppm. 500 ppm water, 1100ppm G-M-B, and 500 ppm additives (starting to use Liquid Karma since I pulled the pump on this res change and that stuff is like motor oil). Somehow it feels like a high wire act! LOL!

 

[Earlymorninghigh]

I'm still a noob, only have 2 hydro grows under my belt, but I think the problem is that your over feeding them big time. I'm using AN products across the board and in veg, even after 3 weeks, my PPM is only 3-400 tops. I have the Nutra-Dip meter, so I'm not sure how that corresponds to what you have, but I would back off on the nutes, save yourself some money too.

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

Ditto. If you have the will, how about putting in a call to Cornell University, GH, or the Schultz tech department and ask them. You sound like you know what you're doing. Dyna-Gro sells foods specifically designed for hydro and soil-less mixes, and their Foliage Pro is a 9-3-6 while their Bloom food is a 3-9-6. They are value added products, one part, complete with 16 elements.

That's what I think too. What makes hydro and soil different regarding plant nutrition and elemental uptake? Like I said, is K somehow not as much available as N so they increase the K amount in their products? A high K ratio to N is ridiculous for producing and maintaining foliage.

I don't know how many soil gardens I've seen marginalized because folks were too stubborn to go from a high K food to a high N food designed for soil. Even got flamed for it at PG - they were bent on listening to their "friends" who told them what they wanted to hear rather listening to reason from an experienced grower. I could only shake my head and watch as plant health declined.



Call it what you want, they look stunted to me, like they need more N.

Uh oh, "Houston, I think we have a problem here."

"Houston, the problem is getting worse, over".

What is in Clearex that is of any value? Let's just get away from the sales pitches for a moment, OK? What is the active ingredient in Clearex and what happens botanically (chemically) when its used? If you don't really know, then why would you even consider spending your money on it? You gonna put blind faith into what someone who has a profit motive claims, or what someone parrots at a pot forum?

I totally respect everything that you have said UB, but what do you recommend that I do at this point?

The two plants that show problems haven't improved, and like you say they are stunted, and appear to be locked out.

Only thing I know to do, is another res change, and potentially a flush. You say that you think I need more N, I will take a couple more updated pics. I was starting to think that I had nutrient burn.

The PH started to move today, which is the first time, so that makes me start to think the plant might have started to try to re-uptake nutrients.

 

[MostlyCrazy]

Earlymorninghigh,

I know it seems like a lot but I know this strain and it really likes heavy nutes. I'm using the GH flora series and I go by the bottle directions. I do lean a little heavy on the micro somtimes but that is because I have extremely hard water and I use hard water micro and it seems to work out. This grow no nute burn except at the very beginning when I jumped the gun and tried to add nutes too soon. Strain is a little touchy the first week or so and now I have to remember not to do that again. Might try 1/8th strength as a first dose next grow and them blast away after it has 3 sets of leaves.

 

[JonnyBtreed]

I'm still a noob, only have 2 hydro grows under my belt, but I think the problem is that your over feeding them big time. I'm using AN products across the board and in veg, even after 3 weeks, my PPM is only 3-400 tops. I have the Nutra-Dip meter, so I'm not sure how that corresponds to what you have, but I would back off on the nutes, save yourself some money too.

I'm not sure who your talking too, but bob's been underfeeding, and mostlyCrazy knows his shit..... I'm sure for his plants that is the correct dosage.

 

[JonnyBtreed]

I totally respect everything that you have said UB, but what do you recommend that I do at this point?

The two plants that show problems haven't improved, and like you say they are stunted, and appear to be locked out.

Only thing I know to do, is another res change, and potentially a flush. You say that you think I need more N, I will take a couple more updated pics. I was starting to think that I had nutrient burn.

The PH started to move today, which is the first time, so that makes me start to think the plant might have started to try to re-uptake nutrients.

The more screwed up they are, the longer it takes for them to resume feeding and start growing again. If you pH is fluctuating that is a good thing.

 

[JonnyBtreed]

the more screwed up they are, the longer it takes for them to resume feeding and start growing again. If you ph is fluctuating that is a good thing.

ARGGHHHHHH I hate this new setup!!!!!!

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

The more screwed up they are, the longer it takes for them to resume feeding and start growing again. If you pH is fluctuating that is a good thing.

Well I feel like I was at the point of no return. The plants have not showed any signs of improvement. I felt like I need to do something because it has been almost a week since the last reservoir change. In that last week there was little to no water used by the plants.

Last night (took me the entire night) I did a reservoir flush with distilled water (5 gallons) and used Clearx (7 TBS) and Big Bloom (5 TBS), Ph adjusted the water to 6.0, I ran the system with the pump on for 1.5 hours.

I drained the flush water after I seen the EC stop rising.

I topped the reservoir with 6 gallons of distilled water, Ph adjusted adjusted to 6.0, I added 10 tsp of Grow Big (3-2-6), and 5 TBS of Big Bloom, which brought my EC to a 1.0.

Today, 15 hours later, I still see no improvement in the two plants that are really struggling. The Ph did go up over night from 6.0 to 6.8 so I brought it down this AM to 6.0.

The only changes that I have made besides the res changes to try to find improvement are:
-Brought the 400 MH up a few more inches to make sure it isn't heat or light bleaching, the light is about 20 inch's above the plants.
-Removed that white towel, thinking maybe there was a chemical in the towel or something crazy.
-A couple of days ago I put a timer on the lights to go from 24/7 to 18/6, thinking that maybe the plants would benefit from the decreased temps and increase humidity for a few hours a day.
-I lowered the feeding tubes in the net pots, because the plants look to me to be showing signs of over watering.
-I did a res flush with Clearx last night, refilled the res with a EC of 1.0.
-Stopped misting the plants, seems to not be helping, and the problem started when I did start misting.

So, this brings me to what I'm thinking:
-My EC is supposed to be 1.6-1.8 according to the Fox Farm feeding schedule. JonnyB thinks that I'm underfeeding to start, I did my res change at 1.0 so this would be an extremely weak EC, am I correct about this? My thought is that the plants should start to show some signs of recovery, and I wanted to make sure that this problem wasn't from a over nute.

-Could I in fact be over watering? Maybe my air stones are not putting out as much air as they could? I'm tempted to remove the pump and feeder tubes. Thoughts?

-If I do not see any signs of improvement in the next few days, then the only other thing I can think to do is bring the EC up, to the feed schedule recommenced of 1.6-1.8.

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

Dudes, I'm going to go buy a couple new air stones right now. Why didn't I think of this a couple days ago...I'm also pulling the plug on the water pump. After reading Illegal Smile's thread about putting bubbles in your poincs, I'm even more convinced that my plants are showing signs of being over watered, because they most likely are...thoughts?


We'll see if that helps.

 

[MostlyCrazy]

Time to try something even if it's wrong!

 

[dbo24242]

Well I feel like I was at the point of no return. The plants have not showed any signs of improvement. I felt like I need to do something because it has been almost a week since the last reservoir change. In that last week there was little to no water used by the plants.

Last night (took me the entire night) I did a reservoir flush with distilled water (5 gallons) and used Clearx (7 TBS) and Big Bloom (5 TBS), Ph adjusted the water to 6.0, I ran the system with the pump on for 1.5 hours.

I drained the flush water after I seen the EC stop rising.

I topped the reservoir with 6 gallons of distilled water, Ph adjusted adjusted to 6.0, I added 10 tsp of Grow Big (3-2-6), and 5 TBS of Big Bloom, which brought my EC to a 1.0.

Today, 15 hours later, I still see no improvement in the two plants that are really struggling. The Ph did go up over night from 6.0 to 6.8 so I brought it down this AM to 6.0.

The only changes that I have made besides the res changes to try to find improvement are:
-Brought the 400 MH up a few more inches to make sure it isn't heat or light bleaching, the light is about 20 inch's above the plants.
-Removed that white towel, thinking maybe there was a chemical in the towel or something crazy.
-A couple of days ago I put a timer on the lights to go from 24/7 to 18/6, thinking that maybe the plants would benefit from the decreased temps and increase humidity for a few hours a day.
-I lowered the feeding tubes in the net pots, because the plants look to me to be showing signs of over watering.
-I did a res flush with Clearx last night, refilled the res with a EC of 1.0.
-Stopped misting the plants, seems to not be helping, and the problem started when I did start misting.

So, this brings me to what I'm thinking:
-My EC is supposed to be 1.6-1.8 according to the Fox Farm feeding schedule. JonnyB thinks that I'm underfeeding to start, I did my res change at 1.0 so this would be an extremely weak EC, am I correct about this? My thought is that the plants should start to show some signs of recovery, and I wanted to make sure that this problem wasn't from a over nute.

-Could I in fact be over watering? Maybe my air stones are not putting out as much air as they could? I'm tempted to remove the pump and feeder tubes. Thoughts?

-If I do not see any signs of improvement in the next few days, then the only other thing I can think to do is bring the EC up, to the feed schedule recommenced of 1.6-1.8.

Hello your EC is way too low and that might be the reason you're getting over-watering symptoms. Some strains are more prone to look over watered in DWC and tehre is not much you can do about it, but it should not look like that that is a serious deficiency issue! Up your EC to 1.8! Good luck!

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

Hello your EC is way too low and that might be the reason you're getting over-watering symptoms. Some strains are more prone to look over watered in DWC and tehre is not much you can do about it, but it should not look like that that is a serious deficiency issue! Up your EC to 1.8! Good luck!

Oh man, are you sure....1.8, is this really where they should be for the size?

 

[JonnyBtreed]

Oh man, are you sure....1.8, is this really where they should be for the size?

are you still doubting me bro???

Your only 2/3 of the recommended nutes, and you think your over feeding. I normally run ABOVE my recommended dosage and the plants show no sign of over fertilization. Weed LOVES fertilizer.

If your roots are in the tank and your feeder tubes are in they " might " be getting too much water. Take em out, make the roots work for it. Plus whats your Res temp? I bet its real high... Take that pump out and reduce the temp by 5*-10*... Up your E.C to where its suppose to be... I'm sorry bro I normally go by ppm, and I normally run around 900 ppm with nutes at your plant stage, and I have a baseline ppm of 100. So About 800 ppm added.

What I think Uncle Ben was saying is - Clearex and flushing agents like Clearex, TAKE AWAY the nutrients from the plant. Your plant doesn't have enough nutrients to begin with. That's like punching a starving kid in the stomach till he throws up... Its just not right. FEED THEM MAN....



Don't mind me...
I been drinkin again....

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

are you still doubting me bro???

Your only 2/3 of the recommended nutes, and you think your over feeding. I normally run ABOVE my recommended dosage and the plants show no sign of over fertilization. Weed LOVES fertilizer.

If your roots are in the tank and your feeder tubes are in they " might " be getting too much water. Take em out, make the roots work for it. Plus whats your Res temp? I bet its real high... Take that pump out and reduce the temp by 5*-10*... Up your E.C to where its suppose to be... I'm sorry bro I normally go by ppm, and I normally run around 900 ppm with nutes at your plant stage, and I have a baseline ppm of 100. So About 800 ppm added.

What I think Uncle Ben was saying is - Clearex and flushing agents like Clearex, TAKE AWAY the nutrients from the plant. Your plant doesn't have enough nutrients to begin with. That's like punching a starving kid in the stomach till he throws up... Its just not right. FEED THEM MAN....



Don't mind me...
I been drinkin again....

OK, I'm going to go bump them up right now..

Res Temp with the pump was like 71-72..Without it seems to be holding about 67-68.

I put two new 12'' air stones in the tank too..More bubbles.

 

[JonnyBtreed]

Sweet..... good man. They'll thank you for it...

I promise.

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

Sweet..... good man. They'll thank you for it...

I promise.

So I brought the EC up to 1.5, which on my meter with the conversion factor I have it set at shows a PPM of 1050.

Ph is 5.5
Res temp is 67

 

[MostlyCrazy]

I agree with Jonny and it looks like you'r set to go. Best if you set them up right so they can start acting right. It's all part of the learning to grow experience. If that EC is too high you'll know pretty quick and backing it off a little is as easy as pulling a gallon and filling with a ph'd only gallon. If it's any comfort, my plants in the e&f set up I was running looked pretty much like yours 10 days ago. Never did get the hang of e&f for some reason but that won't stop me from trying again later. I put them in a spare bp tank I had and 10 days later I have lots of roots in the water (almost ready to pull the pump) and they have easily doubled in size and probably more.

I cloned today. 4 off my best LSD girl, 3 off the close second place finisher, 1 each from the other two and even one for a Sannie Jack that 10 days ago was no bigger than a clone. The pandora's box are kind of runting out on me compared to the SJ but that might be because I gave them hell in that E&F set-up and I've had some runts in veg that came to life when they hit flower.

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

I agree with Jonny and it looks like you'r set to go. Best if you set them up right so they can start acting right. It's all part of the learning to grow experience. If that EC is too high you'll know pretty quick and backing it off a little is as easy as pulling a gallon and filling with a ph'd only gallon. If it's any comfort, my plants in the e&f set up I was running looked pretty much like yours 10 days ago. Never did get the hang of e&f for some reason but that won't stop me from trying again later. I put them in a spare bp tank I had and 10 days later I have lots of roots in the water (almost ready to pull the pump) and they have easily doubled in size and probably more.

I cloned today. 4 off my best LSD girl, 3 off the close second place finisher, 1 each from the other two and even one for a Sannie Jack that 10 days ago was no bigger than a clone. The pandora's box are kind of runting out on me compared to the SJ but that might be because I gave them hell in that E&F set-up and I've had some runts in veg that came to life when they hit flower.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the advice.

Not much change over night, except for the one plant (right plant), which is a G13 Skunk #1, it seems to be really happy, fan leafs where sticking up in the air. The two others, the DNA Kandy Kush, are still showing signs of, well, death. Still looks to be over watered, and locked up.

I bumped the nutes up to EC 1.8, Ph is at 6.0, and the res temp is 66.

I also put 1/8 tsp of Big Bloom in 1/4 gallon water sprayer, and misted the plants this AM, Foliar feeding to see if that does anything.

MC, how many days still your plants responded? What did you put your EC to?

 

[MostlyCrazy]

Took about 5 days to really see the change but it started sending roots down big time in about 3-4 days. The overwated looking one took about a day more. They hit the res about 3 days ago and grew about 50% in a day it seems. It was one of those looky here things!

 

[Mr.Bob Saget]

Took about 5 days to really see the change but it started sending roots down big time in about 3-4 days. The overwated looking one took about a day more. They hit the res about 3 days ago and grew about 50% in a day it seems. It was one of those looky here things!

So your saying there is still a chance...

I moved the small fan on to the Kandy Kush, so there is a little more direct air flow over them. I will monitor them to make sure it doesn't harm them. Both plant are very droopy, but them are not drying out, the leafs still seem like them have chlorophyll in them. The root masses both look very wet, and not very stringy, not many hairs, and there doesn't seem to be any new root growth from the net pots, but the root mass in the tank seem to have a couple good looking strings ber plant.

The Skunk #1 is looking the best today, then I have seen, so I think that would tell me that the res is good, and should have necessary nutrients to support the other plants. This plant seems to be growing again.


Ph 6.0
Res temp 65.7
EC 1.758