No fillibuster for Repukes.Talks move forward

Jack*Herrer420

Well-Known Member
No they don't, it is the number one concern of Americans, the only ones that are happy are the ones already receiving govt insurance (medicare). Ironically these are the same ones against any change.




You against the mail service too? 50 cents to mail a letter from LA to NY in 3 days, FEDEX charges $25 for the same service.



Yet during 8 years of the Bush admin insurance costs went up 150% and not a peep out of repugs.
Please tell me where you get your statistics. There are 85% of americans with health insurance, over 3/4 of those are satisfied with it. The one's who aren't are the one's who can't afford a good company, so they go with the cheapo.
Yes I am against the government mail company, government schools, government healthcare, government anything. as far as I see it, the government is here to protect it's people, not to impose ridiculous taxes and regulations.
again, where do you get your statistics? And I must be a republican if I'm against Obama and the health care fiasco. I disliked Bush, I didn't support most of what they did, I'm an independent thinker, I see how both parties are destroying this country, I voice my opinion on any government influence or control.
 
K

Keenly

Guest
If it means everyone can get a chance to get needed health care then so be it..right now we have mandatory car insurance..I don't have a problem with that either....Heck if you got kids your frame of mind should be that you have to have it anyway.... so yes Health Care For All

no, it means all of us will be forced to purchase insurance whether we want to or not


this is not freedom
 

Jack*Herrer420

Well-Known Member
Forget about being free and deciding what you do with your life/money, let's let the government decide all of that for us. It's not like we were blessed with a constitution that allowed it's people to do as they wish, rather a government that forces its will on the people.
 

tnrtinr

Well-Known Member

fog horn

New Member
What is it that motivates you pompous conservatives to keep trying to spread all these lies about Obamacare? You all sound about as smart as the assholes who try to make arguments against medical marijuana.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
First of all, keep government out of the private sector. This bill is forcing the rich to provide for the poor. Take money from the rich to "subsidize" the poor. What incentive will there be for people to follow the American dream? If we are all created equal, and have equal opportunities, then why are certain individuals getting more? The people who support the democrats monstrosity are poor people who can't afford healthcare, so they expect the "greedy" rich to take care of them. To answer your question, tort reform, tax credits, individual health care savings accounts, not allowing illegals to get procedures, among others.
Are you telling me you've read the whole bill, and are some kind of expert on it? I've read sections, but being over 2000 pages, it might take a while to get through. Are you telling me you don't see anything wrong throughout the entire bill? How can you support something like this when all you hear from democrats is the patriot act, and how wrong it was for that to get passed?
You say you can keep what you got, but how do you expect private companies to compete with the government when they are the one's who set the rules, change the rules, have unlimited funds(from raising taxes), and so on? They are trying to get their foot in the door, because like Obama said, his goal is to have a single payer system. Eventually, there will be no private insurance companies, you will be forced on the government program, wether you like it or not, and there will be no way to call out injustices in the system, seeing as citizens have no power or influence over what goes on in the government.
Smoke break.:bigjoint:
you still did not tell me what your plan would be...just a bunch of rambling on about something that is not even true..again take the time and read
 

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
do you have car insurance ????? you have to pay for that...do you complain about that as well....
Wow is this a terrible analogy or what, and notice the "car insurance" argument is the only one they can use, because in this country we DON'T force individuals to buy services they don't want.

My 22 yr old son lives in the DC metro area and NO he doesn't own a car. He's a bit of a "green" person and uses public transportation and a bike for his needs, just like many people do in congested metro areas. Using your analogy, he would be forced to buy car insurance, despite not owning or even wanting to own a car. Strike one of your awful analogy.

Also, according to your analogy if he did buy a car, say one that was recently wrecked, he could go to GEICO, demand coverage AND force them to fix the wrecked vehicle at the outset of his coverage. Strike Two.

Strike three of your analogy is the fact that driving a motor vehicle in this or any other country is a privilege not a right. Imposing insurance on a privilege is perfectly acceptable and few people would argue against it. However, in this case the government is going to force individuals to purchase health insurance simply because they EXIST. The last time I checked, we had a RIGHT to exist. Or would you actually like to make the argument we no longer have a right to exist?

If you open the door for the government to start demanding payment, taxes, insurance coverage for simply existing, where does it end? There is NO end, that's why we don't allow it. Sure, everybody should have health insurance, but we don't give our government the power to impose that on our citizens by force.

It's an extremely slippery slope. If you allow greedy, powerhungry, fallible human beings with agendas (we call them government for short) to enact UNCONSTITUTIONAL legislation, they will do so again and again, simply by using their ability to pass this legislation as an example of their legal right to do so in the future.

Once you stop restricting them with the Constitution, they can take away ANYTHING they want to, it truly does become an unimportant document at that point. Which is pretty scary since the whole damn thing was written to protect us from the government they were creating. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting this is the first time this has happened, but the fact we are even at this point is because of all the previous transgressions on the Constitution. Where the hell does it say the government can prevent us from growing a plant? They gained that ability because earlier infringements were not stopped in their tracks. And I'm sure there were people screaming against all of it as it was happening. This is just the latest transgression.
 
Foghorn, why would you want the "government" to care for you, I personally think that instead of trying to "control" all of the population, an impossibility, just control the price of healthcare. All the medical professions and institutions, charge different prices for services. For a simple Blood test, a CBC, I have paid cash, $300, my insurance co, pays the same clinic $97, at the same clinic, medicaid paid $67 for the same CBC, for my Dad. I want the best care I can afford, if I can't afford care, then I die, simple.
 

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
Look its not that the bill is 2000 pages.
Its not that "conservatives" don't want people taken care of.

Its that government has a strong track record of messing things up.
SS is damn near broke as is Medicare.
We spend about 200k a year per class room in public schools and these kids in large part can't even read or make change.
Government plans fail, plain and simple.
I don't care what they say how much this is gonna save us.
Its all BS.

We are 12 trillion in Debt. In ten years it will be 24 trillion.
Don't even try to tell me that is all Bushes Fault either. (it is in large part)
Bushes last budget was over by 450+ billion
Obamas First Budget was over by 1.7 trillion.
With trillion dollar budget gaps for the forseeable future.
We can't afford any more government help.

You want solutions to medical issues Get government and third party payers out of the way.
Health savings accounts or HSA:
(Tax deductable contrabutions, tax deductable medical expenses.)
High Deductable major medical insurance dovetailed with HSA.
(Long term plan like term life)
Tax credits for doctors who do Pro Bono work:
(For every 5 patents a doctor sees for pay he could see a 6th for free. This will allow doctors to cover everyone.)

We need massive cuts in government spending.
We need massive cuts in taxes to stimulate the economy.
We can't keep borrowing money to stimulate the economy and create jobs.
If we spent 500 billion a year on our debt it would take us 24 years to pay it off.
This is insane more government is not the answer.

In a way though I don't care anymore.
Its fine just ignore the debt.
Just chase after the shinny bobbles government offers you.
I'm hopeing that when we become insolvent and government runs out of money.
When we monitize the debt. and your savings are destroyed.
When we are living in the broken rotting corpse of the US.
With a living standard like that in Mexico then maybe people will understand.
That free markets are ALWAYS to be prefered over Government command and control.
But probably not most people will blame the rich,
And scream for more socialism.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Health Care For All will be a great thing and remember it still has work to be done on it..... The joy is from its being discussed .... All you people who are against it probable need not concern themselves about cost...Now if you make enough where as it would cost you then hell be happy that you are helping others..... We suppose to live in the best country in the world and we can't get all its people health care..please......I still have not heard one person tell me how to fix the problems with health care only that "we don't want government control." Give me a break the government stepping up and doing something positive for the people and you bytch about it....We all know the truth... its just Obama doing it and you guys can't handle it... so if you are rich get your pocket books out and if not hell it will be subsidized...READ THE BILL
 

SmokeyMcChokey

Well-Known Member
Well since this IS a marijuana growing forum I would say it should be typical.
how would wanting the government to stay out of my business and what i put in my body typical of a liberal? I think you have your definitions skewed just a little bit there buddy. for the most part conservatives want to lessen federal intervention in daily affairs. On the other hand liberals seem to think that forced insurance is a good idea. I hope you get what you want and i hope you start growing so much pot that you make over 200,000 a year so Uncle Scam can take upwards of 46% of your income... Sounds fair.
 

SmokeyMcChokey

Well-Known Member
Health Care For All will be a great thing and remember it still has work to be done on it..... The joy is from its being discussed .... All you people who are against it probable need not concern themselves about cost...Now if you make enough where as it would cost you then hell be happy that you are helping others..... We suppose to live in the best country in the world and we can't get all its people health care..please......I still have not heard one person tell me how to fix the problems with health care only that "we don't want government control." Give me a break the government stepping up and doing something positive for the people and you bytch about it....We all know the truth... its just Obama doing it and you guys can't handle it... so if you are rich get your pocket books out and if not hell it will be subsidized...READ THE BILL
first off i cannot afford healthcare. but is is immoral for me to EXPECT to get insurance or healtrhcare for free. I guess that imjust one of the few proud americans that chooses not to take handouts.
If you want healthcare reform no problem. institute tort reforms and new mandates as to the moral obligations of private insurance companies. do not spend money that we dont have to pay for something that WILL fail. Its as simple as that. This is the stepping stone that uncle scam has been waiting for. and before long (obviously not with this administration but farther down the road) we will become a socialized nation. Taxes will increase across the board to pay for this no matter the initial claims of the bill.
Not too mention that by taxing people in hegher tax brackets even more will cause detriment to the economy. spending is already low and will creep to a halt. you have to remember that shit rolls down hill.
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
how would wanting the government to stay out of my business and what i put in my body typical of a liberal? I think you have your definitions skewed just a little bit there buddy. for the most part conservatives want to lessen federal intervention in daily affairs.

Conservatives have fought to keep marijuana illegal and liberals attempt to legalize it, get it now?
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
Yawn. It was obvious 6 months ago there would be some kind of bill passed with healthcare in the title and equally obvious that it would not include any form of public option. The bill on the floor is dead. It can be passed without the public option and with some other changes. The democrats will have to fight among themselves to decide if that, or no bill at all, is preferable.
 
Top