Root Development vs Plant Growth

[skunkushybrid]

ive grown same strains from the same batch on both 18/6 and 24/0 and 24 definatley won the race by atleast 25%

Yeah 24 is best... no doubt about it... for upward plant growth. Yet this neglects root growth... which a lot of people seem to think is very important. My experiments here, as I'm sure there'll need to be more than one, are intending to determine just how important the roots are.

The only reason i really grew DWC was so that I could examine root behaviour... and I did note that roots grow better when a dark period is instigated during veg'. If you start a DWC grow in 24 hour veg, the roots take longer to get to the res'. Give them even just two dark periods of four hours each, and a remarkable difference can be seen in root development.

 

[natmoon]

No I don't do that. I've used other methods similar in the past... liquid oxygen etc... but at the time i was growing in DWC, so i don't think it made much difference. I honestly feel that the medium I grow in most now, coco coir, holds plenty of oxygen to sustain the plant without requiring any more.

No, I don't know anyone that sells boron. Why'd you ask?

I heard thats its good for creating oxygen in the soil and i haven't been able to find a nute thats basically a boron additive on its own

 

[Ralphie]

yes, i wanted to do a 22/2 but i never got around getting a second timer on this grow, so i guess i'll try that next time.. i'm sure it will do good for the plants to give a small break, as well as the equiptment.. i grow in soil and the way i figured it is the roots deep down are in complete completle darkness and are still doing fine, and i also figured they would be developing alot of roots in flower where they get 12 hours dark so why not give them the green growth during veg

EDIT:

also on 24/0 after 2 weeks from seed, my roots were popping out of my 3.5 inch square pots

 

[LoganSmith]

Hey Skunk, can you explain how to grow with coco and if there is any other stuff that you add to it.
Thx

 

[FilthyFletch]

So what size are those pots you have them in?These pics are mine in 3 gallon pots in miracle grow moisture control at day 15 in soil. 14 days veg 1 day 12/12. I give no nutes just plain water at ph of 6 as needed.Will eventually add peruvian bat guano in about 2 weeks for the phos...Why use boron ad grotek H202 to your water and it gives an o2 boost and kills fungus in the soil..These were under 400 watt mh and now 600 watt hps enhnaced spectrum bulb

 

[skunkushybrid]

also on 24/0 after 2 weeks from seed, my roots were popping out of my 3.5 inch square pots

Mine are from clone, 18 days and not a sign of root at the bottom of the pots. I'm still yet to start the seed version of this, but thanks for the info', gives me something to look out for.

So what size are those pots you have them in?

Each pot holds a max of 0.5 litres... there are some a little smaller.

Hey Skunk, can you explain how to grow with coco and if there is any other stuff that you add to it.
Thx

Coco is easy... it's just like soil, only better at holding onto both water and oxygen, but you get all the benefits of hydro. To help with the oxygen content of the coco, I mix in around 40% perlite. So i grow in 60/40 coco/perlite. You need to add everything. Unlike soil, coco is nutrient free. You also want a lower ph of between 5.8 and 6.2 if you want your plants to uptake nutrients properly, and prevent build-ups etc.

 

[LoganSmith]

Thxs

 

[skunkushybrid]

Not much to report. The flowerers won't need another feed till tomorrow... it'll be the same make-up I gave them last time.

I've always noticed though that once plants go into flower for the first week they don't drink too much... maybe due to them starting to produce buds, or the switch to 12/12 confuses them a little at first, I'm not sure.

The veggers are happily growing away, drinking loads. I'll post update pic's tomorrow.

 

[LoganSmith]

Hey again, how often will you need to water the flower after that first week?

 

[skunkushybrid]

I'm thinking it should go up to once a day.

 

[skunkushybrid]

Put a clone in yesterday straight out of the prop', with the equivalent to an 8 week veg' feed. Expected to see some overnute this morning. Maybe it'll happen later.

I've always judged my veg' feed with clones by size of the plant. Yet, more and more, I am thinking that the amount of veg' feed a clone needs is more to do with the age of the clone.

 

[skunkushybrid]

Well I didn't feed these guys yesterday, like I said I needed to. I was out enjoying myself and I didn't get back till after lights out. I'm thinking they should be ok at this stage, I'll find out at 10am... when the lights come on.

The veggers are doing fine.

 

[skunkushybrid]

No other word can describe how I'm feeling now... i'll give you a clue, the first letter is F, the last K, there are also two letters in between, one of them being U, and the other C...

On lights on, I was waiting for the lamps to warm up, admiring the already amazing growth rate and stem thickening of these plants... when I notice something move on one of the leaves... looks like a tiny, white worm, only it moves very fast. Then I see not just one, but lots of them scurrying away from the light and onto the underside of the leaves. At that point I got extremely itchy and high-tailed it out of there... not wanting to be mistaken for a plant.

I'm the type of guy that believes these type of things can only happen to other people... and I'll admit, I have been somewhat lax (extremely lax) in taking care of my plants.

I believe they are spider mites, although I've never suffered an insect problem before (except caterpillars).

I've read that neem oil is good for these, anyone know if this is true? Or even, if from my description of these things, they are indeed spider mites.

 

[natmoon]

No other word can describe how I'm feeling now... i'll give you a clue, the first letter is F, the last K, there are also two letters in between, one of them being U, and the other C...

On lights on, I was waiting for the lamps to warm up, admiring the already amazing growth rate and stem thickening of these plants... when I notice something move on one of the leaves... looks like a tiny, white worm, only it moves very fast. Then I see not just one, but lots of them scurrying away from the light and onto the underside of the leaves. At that point I got extremely itchy and high-tailed it out of there... not wanting to be mistaken for a plant.

I'm the type of guy that believes these type of things can only happen to other people... and I'll admit, I have been somewhat lax (extremely lax) in taking care of my plants.

I believe they are spider mites, although I've never suffered an insect problem before (except caterpillars).

I've read that neem oil is good for these, anyone know if this is true? Or even, if from my description of these things, they are indeed spider mites.

Its not spider mites as they don't look like worms,sound possible that they are moth larvea but to be honest i don't know as i have sticky strips hanging around the ceiling and dishes of molasses and water most things that enter my cupboard of death lol never get anywhere near the plants.

I have had spider mites once and i killed them with a fairy liquid and water spray,i used 1 half teaspoon per 2 pints of water and obviously do not shake this formula if anyone else is reading this,just stir it really well and slowly.

Spider mites are little round buggers and look nothing like worms,i also heard that the neem oil is good at killing them,best of luck

 

[skunkushybrid]

Ok... so they're not spider mites. These things look like a grain of rice, but about 100th the size. They are just visible by the naked eye. In the dark, they sit happily on TOP of the leaves sucking out the goodness. When the lights come on they scurry for the underside of the leaf. They move quick too... and, they're everywhere.

Are these how caterpillars start out? If it's caterpillars, I think the earth is being invaded... there's around 3-4 on each leaf... on the big leaves 3-4 to each finger.

 

[natmoon]

Ok... so they're not spider mites. These things look like a grain of rice, but about 100th the size. They are just visible by the naked eye. In the dark, they sit happily on TOP of the leaves sucking out the goodness. When the lights come on they scurry for the underside of the leaf. They move quick too... and, they're everywhere.

Are these how caterpillars start out? If it's caterpillars, I think the earth is being invaded... there's around 3-4 on each leaf... on the big leaves 3-4 to each finger.

Whats the nearest bug that they look like from this links pics.
UMCE Sucking Insect Fact Sheet

 

[skunkushybrid]

Whats the nearest bug that they look like from this links pics.
UMCE Sucking Insect Fact Sheet

None of them.

 

[natmoon]

None of them.

Probably these then.
Doctor Optimara: Soil Mealy Bugs

 

[natmoon]

If that aint them because i dont even know if they leave the roots for the leaves,heres a better id list for bugs.
Pest control and silica gel products - Agropharm Ltd

 

[skunkushybrid]

Sorry about this cut n paste... but this site is well worth checking out. I think mine falls into this category:

Arthropods
Six arthropod classes are particularly important to Cannabis agriculture: the Crustacea (including "pillbugs," with 5-7 pairs of legs), Symphyla ("garden centipedes," with 12 pairs of legs), Chilopoda (true centipedes, with 1 pair of legs per segment), Diplopoda (millipedes, "thousand-leggers," with 2 pairs of legs per segment and many segments), Arachnida (spiders and mites, with 4 pairs of legs), and the Class Insecta, with 3 pairs of legs.
Insects are the largest class. Twenty-seven orders of insects are currently recognized by entomologists, and half of them attack Cannabis. Mostafa and Messenger (1972) list 272 species of insects and mites associated with Cannabis! Of course, few of these species elicit serious concern. Probably the worst pests are stem-boring caterpillars, especially in fiber crops. Two economically important pests are the European corn borer (Ostrinia nubilalis), and the hemp borer (Grapholita delineana).
European corn borers (ECBs) attract a lot of scientific attention thanks to their amazing appetite for corn plants. ECBs are native to eastern Europe, where Cannabis sativa and Humulus lupulus (hops) served as original host plants. ECBs switched to maize after Zea mays cultivation began in Europe two centuries ago (Nagy 1976, 1986). About one century ago ECBs moved to North America and plagued American hemp, where they "nourished themselves upon the marrow within stalks" (Dodge 189. More recently ECBs have infested marijuana crops (Bush Doctor 1987).
ECB feeding induces stem cankers, which are structurally weak. Stems supporting heavily flowering tops often break at cankers. Larvae boring into smaller branches cause wilting of distal plant parts. Under heavy infestations entire plants collapse. Emchuk (1937) states 5-12 larvae can destroy a hemp plant. ECB entry holes in stems are essentially open wounds, providing access for fungi such as Macrophomina phaseolina. Other insects may also crawl in. ECBs hatching late in the season may infest flowering tops instead of stems, where they spin webs and scatter feces.

Figure 1. Larva, pupa and female moth of Grapholita delineana (A) compared to larger Ostrinia nubilalis (B). Both about 1.5x actual size. (G. delineana from Senchenko and Timonina 1978, O. nubilalis from Ceapoiu 1958.)

Cannabis pests I think mine is the one in the first pic'. They gotta have a lot of legs to move that quick.