Obama's Certificate of Live Birth...

[CrackerJax]

You are both wrong! Ouch....

 

[jrh72582]

You are both wrong! Ouch....

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck......

 

[PVS]

PVS has no foundational knowledge to base his ideas in. He's not to blame...the public school system is. He is awash in swirling ideas without the means to parse the truth (if any) from them.

A piece of political flotsam and jetsom.

fair enough...and you're just an angry bitter internet yapper who feels the need to put people down online and insult their intelligence as a replacement for presenting a valid point with evidence...seemingly to compensate for whatever real-time personal shortcomings you have and need to accept.

 

[fdd2blk]

looks like things are getting back to normal.

 

[purplekitty7772008]

Its all coming together...

They are pushing the health care bill to give us
the mandatory vaccines!!!

If they control the health care industry, and can
govern what care we receive, who we receive it
by, and when.......

then everything falls into place. They will make it
mandatory for anyone under the forced gov't health care

to accept a national ID card in the name of health insurance
that will have the microchip that will control us, which they will

then reveal that the national ID card will become the new
"tracker" by which they can get any and all information

about you whenever they please. The new "national" health care
system will make it mandatory that all of your information

is sent into their federal data base, along with all of your
registered gun information!!!!

I've figured it out...

and at the rate they are pushing this new health care,

we are fucked.

I've signed any and every petition and sent letters to my
representatives opposing this "national health care".

Everyone should do the same.

Obviously, the CONS out weigh the pros.

http://www.balancedpolitics.org/universal_health_care.htm

 

[jrh72582]

Its all coming together...

They are pushing the health care bill to give us
the mandatory vaccines!!!

If they control the health care industry, and can
govern what care we receive, who we receive it
by, and when.......

then everything falls into place. They will make it
mandatory for anyone under the forced gov't health care

to accept a national ID card in the name of health insurance
that will have the microchip that will control us, which they will

then reveal that the national ID card will become the new
"tracker" by which they can get any and all information

about you whenever they please. The new "national" health care
system will make it mandatory that all of your information

is sent into their federal data base, along with all of your
registered gun information!!!!

I've figured it out...

and at the rate they are pushing this new health care,

we are fucked.

I've signed any and every petition and sent letters to my
representatives opposing this "national health care".

Everyone should do the same.

No, I like health care. You fell down the slippery slope in your estimation of potentiality. It's a clear sign of youth and immaturity. Consider that there may be more than one or two outcomes to socialized healthcare. Consider that it may benefit the most.

 

[purplekitty7772008]

No, I like health care. You fell down the slippery slope in your estimation of potentiality. It's a clear sign of youth and immaturity. Consider that there may be more than one or two outcomes to socialized healthcare. Consider that it may benefit the most.

And so does everyone else.

But I'd rather keep the health care I have without
all of my personal information being sent into a

gov't database where it can easily be viewed by
who knows who....

And Can you give me these outcomes please?

I don't see this as being beneficial to Americans
when all of your personal health information will
be sent into a gov't database. They can do what

they please with your information. Would you like
to propose that it isn't possible?

Sure its possible, its what they want.

I'd like to see the benefits of a socialized health care system.

So they say if I don't want to buy their gov't mandated health
care I will be taxed 2% of my weekly income for something I don't

even reap the shitty benefits of?

Puh-lease.


Look how well the health care system in Canada is?

They have nationalized health care...

how is that going for them?

 

[jrh72582]

And so does everyone else.

But I'd rather keep the health care I have without
all of my personal information being sent into a

gov't database where it can easily be viewed by
who knows who....

And Can you give me these outcomes please?

I don't see this as being beneficial to Americans
when all of your personal health information will
be sent into a gov't database. They can do what

they please with your information. Would you like
to propose that it isn't possible?

Sure its possible, its what they want.

I'd like to see the benefits of a socialized health care system.

So they say if I don't want to buy their gov't mandated health
care I will be taxed 2% of my weekly income for something I don't

even reap the shitty benefits of?

Puh-lease.


Look how well the health care system in Canada is?

They have nationalized health care...

how is that going for them?

It's going quite well for them. See, this is what I mean - you are clearly so young and naive. You think Canada's system is bad because you heard it from someone, but it's not. And Canada doesn't possess the only healthcare system. ALMOST EVERY first world nation has socialized healthcare. I myself was a patient of the EU system for something major and they covered everything. I merely signed my name. There's no denying of pertinent care and there aren't shitty benefits. You are so uninformed - please consider this fact and do some research.

And you say you like your health care? Well good. You can keep it. This is the staple of the proposed system. Keep whatever the hell you want. If you CAN'T get affordable health care, then the government will subsidize the cost, using taxpayer money. So your taxes will go to help the poor and undercovered, which, IMHO, is better than sending money over to Iraq to wage an unethical and illegal war. So what's the problem. You now get to keep you health care if you like it, you will not be put on some euthanasia list, people will ultimately benefit (with little to no increase in taxes), and all will be well. Where's the collapse? We will still have private insurance companies. There's still a huge potential for profit, so competition will keep care high. You do not understand what is being proposed and the general state of socialized medicine abroad.

 

[Keenly]

It's going quite well for them. See, this is what I mean - you are clearly so young and naive. You think Canada's system is bad because you heard it from someone, but it's not. And Canada doesn't possess the only healthcare system. ALMOST EVERY first world nation has socialized healthcare. I myself was a patient of the EU system for something major and they covered everything. I merely signed my name. There's no denying of pertinent care and there aren't shitty benefits. You are so uninformed - please consider this fact and do some research.

And you say you like your health care? Well good. You can keep it. This is the staple of the proposed system. Keep whatever the hell you want. If you CAN'T get affordable health care, then the government will subsidize the cost, using taxpayer money. So your taxes will go to help the poor and undercovered, which, IMHO, is better than sending money over to Iraq to wage an unethical and illegal war. So what's the problem. You now get to keep you health care if you like it, you will not be put on some euthanasia list, people will ultimately benefit (with little to no increase in taxes), and all will be well. Where's the collapse? We will still have private insurance companies. There's still a huge potential for profit, so competition will keep care high. You do not understand what is being proposed and the general state of socialized medicine abroad.

it is apparent you know now what this bill represents nor what it contains

things like granting the fed REAL TIME ACCESS to your bank account

 

[jrh72582]

it is apparent you know now what this bill represents nor what it contains

things like granting the fed REAL TIME ACCESS to your bank account

Let's see it. I don't believe you. Prove me wrong (and no youtube videos).

 

[purplekitty7772008]

It's going quite well for them. See, this is what I mean - you are clearly so young and naive. You think Canada's system is bad because you heard it from someone, but it's not. And Canada doesn't possess the only healthcare system. ALMOST EVERY first world nation has socialized healthcare. I myself was a patient of the EU system for something major and they covered everything. I merely signed my name. There's no denying of pertinent care and there aren't shitty benefits. You are so uninformed - please consider this fact and do some research.

And you say you like your health care? Well good. You can keep it. This is the staple of the proposed system. Keep whatever the hell you want. If you CAN'T get affordable health care, then the government will subsidize the cost, using taxpayer money. So your taxes will go to help the poor and undercovered, which, IMHO, is better than sending money over to Iraq to wage an unethical and illegal war. So what's the problem. You now get to keep you health care if you like it, you will not be put on some euthanasia list, people will ultimately benefit (with little to no increase in taxes), and all will be well. Where's the collapse? We will still have private insurance companies. There's still a huge potential for profit, so competition will keep care high. You do not understand what is being proposed and the general state of socialized medicine abroad.

Please refrain from personal slurs against me. Thank you.

Why do you insist on the government taking care of us?
Last time I checked, most of us are capable of taking

care of ourselves, unless you're physically disabled.

And I will keep my health care. Because why? I can choose
my own doctors, I have a say in what type of care I want,
and I don't want "big brother" telling me who my doctors are, &

when I can receive my health care, and if I'm approved for
it. Didn't you read Keenly's thread about it?

Obviously not.

And you want taxes to go up?
Even after Obama promised there would be no
new tax increases, but rather tax cuts?

They government will be taking taxes from me for other's
health care that I won't even want or receive.

Most people are capable of getting a good

education and becoming a successful responsible person
who can pay for their own health insurance.

Last time I checked, my homeless ex starting going to college
and received better grades than I did. So I don't believe in

people saying they are unable to go to school to better themselves.
Most are capable of doing better in life. No, I'm not saying all.

But this is America, if you want to be wealthy, hell you can work
your way up by getting education and starting your own business
if you so please.

Here is What Keenly found...and I don't agree with any of it.

From CMS at FreeRepublic.com:
• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the government option!

Required? Hmm. I don't want to be required by the gov't to do something I don't want to do. Sounds like enslavement to me.

• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!

So now employers who self insure are being audited?

• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!

Rationed Health care? Wtf is that?
Does that mean I won't be able to get my inhalers
every month if I choose this gov't health care since my
care will be rationed?

• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)

This is just golden isn't it? So a gov't committe is going to select
my treatments for me? Last time I checked, with the health care
I currently have, I have a big say so in what treatments I decide
to get for my health problems. If I don't want a certain medicine,
I can ask for a different one. That won't be the case here.

• Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.

So since when is not having a choice considered freedom here in America?

• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

Yupp. Put the bill for all the illegals on us tax payers. Its just what we need in a time of recession. To pay more taxes and for other people's health care.

• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.

Yeah, the national Id "health card" that will become the new
ID card in America with all of our information that can easily
be accessed by someone else. It also WILL have a microchip in it.
Sorry, but I'd rather not be "issued", in other words, forced
to carry a card that can and will track me wherever I go.

• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

This one is so fucked up in so many ways I won't continue to comment. I'm pretty sure you can figure out why.

• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)

Why do I have to pay to subsidize for this? Because big brother says so. Fuck big brother.

• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.

I guess this means that private health care won't be private anymore. Seeing as they have to conform to government rules.
How will being mandated by the gov't keep these sectors
private?

• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)

You still believe that private health care will still be private after reading this? ^^^

• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens

Ah, yes. More taxes to hire translators for the illegals.

• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.



• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.

I guess socialized health care means I have no choice huh?
What were you saying? Oh, that I would still be able to keep
my health insurance? But I will still be automatically enrolled
into a program I don't want to be in. There is no freedom of choice here.

• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.

There will still be competition though right?

• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.

Ooh. So I guess this means when I become a PA the state will
no longer decide my wages, but the gov't will tell me what I get paid.
I feel so free!!! **sarcasm**

 

[Keenly]

i sense an incoming negative post about me

 

[purplekitty7772008]

i sense an incoming negative post about me

Yeah, because for some reason when people here
have no refute against something logical they resort

to personal attacks....

just like jh...

because I'm "clearly so young and naive"

 

[PVS]

looks like things are getting back to normal.

really? thats the norm? just everyone spamming "only my opinion matters" posts and picking e-squabbles with anyone who disagrees...devoid of anything useful, meaningful, mildly interesting or at least relevant to the topic?

*packs bags*

 

[fdd2blk]

really? thats the norm? just everyone spamming "only my opinion matters" posts and picking e-squabbles with anyone who disagrees...devoid of anything useful, meaningful, mildly interesting or at least relevant to the topic?

*packs bags*

bye bye.

 

[CrackerJax]

Jrh has researched the health care bill thoroughly... JK!!!! You will be able to keep your health plan....for awhile.... but make no mistake....the idea is to drive a stake through the private insurance sector. You know, the sector that 85% of Americans are quite happy with.

The socialized medical countries are going broke already. We will follow.

Want to live and die by a point system? Move to Great Britain....or just wait, it's coming to you. Are you blind.... minus a point...wheelchair...minus another point. The govt. knows that ppl spend 25% of ALL their medical costs in the LAST year of life. Guess what? You will now be given counseling instead of treatment.... counseling to die.

Can you imagine if Stephen Hawkins was born in the UK? he wouldn't have stood a chance......

 

[jrh72582]

Yeah, because for some reason when people here
have no refute against something logical they resort

to personal attacks....

just like jh...

because I'm "clearly so young and naive"

So you won't admit that you're wrong about Canada's system? Typical.

And it's not an insult to call someone young and naive. You are young and the naivete is quite clear with you. Research your post history. How many times have you started a thread about your poor life or your 'hot' body? I mean, come on.... We are adults here.

 

[CrackerJax]

Canada has a horrid system. i'll debate you on it if you wish.... no worries there. All the hard data on it indicates inefficiency and waste and NOT there when ppl need it most. I'm not talking about getting a prescription filled or having your knee looked at.

 

[what... huh?]

Let me tell you a couple of things about Canada and healthcare and money.


It is nice not to have to pay for a military because your big brother has one, and self interest in keeping you safe.
It sucks paying over 60% in taxes for "free" programs.
Canadian health care is "ok".

• 
  [*]Surgery postponed indefinitely for 1,000 Kelowna patients
  - Cathryn Atkinson, April 8, 2008 [Globe and Mail]
  [*]Majority of Que. dentists quit health-care system
  - March 27, 2008 [CTV.ca]
  [*]Why Ontario keeps sending patients south
  - Lisa Priest, February 22, 2008 [Globe and Mail]
  [*]Will Socialized Health Care in the US Kill Canadians?
  - Don Surber, March 3, 2008 [Acton Institute]
  [*]Wait times for surgery, medical treatments at all-time high: report
  - October 15, 2007 [CBC News (Canada)]
  [*]The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care
  - David Gratzer, Summer 2007 [City Journal]
  [*]Cancer patients question why PET scan not covered
  - May 28, 2007 [CBC News]
  [*]BC Medical Association: Waiting Too Long for Hip and Knee Surgery Costs $10,000 Per Patient-Maximum Wait Times Should Be No Longer Than 6 Months
  - June 28, 2006 [CCN Matthews]
  [*]Ont. physician turns away patient for being 55+
  - March 17, 2006 [CTV.ca]
  [*]Canada inches toward private medicine
  - Rebecca Cook Dube, August 8, 2005 [CS Monitor]
  [*]Doctor defends private cancer clinic
  - Gillian Livingston, July 15, 2005 [Canadian Press]
  [*]Dogma trumps truth in health-care issues
  - D’Arcy Jenish, July 7, 2005 [Ontario Business News]
  [*]Why Canadians Purchase Private Health Insurance
  - Walter Williams, June 20, 2005 [Capitalism Magazine]
  [*]Doctor welcomes health ruling
  - June 9, 2005 [CBC Montreal]
  [*]Patients shouldn't wait more than 8 weeks for cardiac defibrillator: experts
  - May 24, 2005 [Canadian Press]
  [*]Grads fail to slow doctor shortage
  - Jennifer O'Brien, May 21, 2005 [London Free Press]
  [*]Free Canadian health care comes at cost
  - April 10, 2005 [Arkansas Democrat-Gazette]
  [*]Canada's drug tab reaches $22 billion, report suggests
  - Sheryl Ubelacker, CP, April 6, 2005 [London Free Press]
  [*]Canadian health care is free and first-class -- if you can wait
  - Beth Duff-Brown, March 19, 2005 [The Associated Press]
  [*]Pediatricians, parents warn of shortage of community-based care for children
  - Colin Perkel, March 4, 2005 [The Canadian Press]
  [*]Access to specialists difficult: study
  - February 16, 2005 [CBC Calgary]
  [*]Doctor shortages, frustrations vary from region to region, survey shows
  - February 15, 2005 [Canada.com]
  [*]Montreal leads the country in offering private health care
  - Aaron Derfel, February 12, 2005 [Montreal Gazette]
  [*]Canada falling short on medical imaging
  - February 9, 2005 [Macleans.ca]
  [*]Creative incentives required to retain older doctors
  - Dr. Charles Shaver, January 20, 2005 [Toronto Star]
  [*]MRI gap defies cash fix
  - Mark Kennedy, January 14, 2005 [National Post (Canada)]
  [*]A boy's plight, a nation's problem
  - Lisa Priest, January 13, 2005 [The Globe and Mail]
  [*]Where's proof private clinics cost more?
  - Tom Brodbeck, December 4, 2004 [The Winnipeg Sun]
  [*]Surgery backlog tops 5,500 at kids' hospitals; One-year waits common
  - Aaron Derfel, December 3, 2004 [The Gazette (Montreal)]
  [*]Hospital wait lists to get worse, Carriere says
  - Chris Traber, November 14, 2004 [Yorkregion.com]
  [*]Frustrated patients can't handle ER waits
  - Jennifer Stewart and Jeffrey Simpson, October 28, 2004 [The Halifax Herald Limited]
  [*]Private medical clinic opens in Montreal
  ...it answers, "an ever-increasing demand from the public for greater accessibility and quality of health services." - October 13, 2004 [CTV.ca]
  [*]Canadians have higher death risk than Americans after heart attack: study
  - Sheryl Ubelacker, September 20, 2004 [Canada.com]
  [*]Canadian medical tourists in India
  - Jeremy Copeland, September 20, 2004 [CBC News]
  [*]Doctor shortage cripples Canada's free health care
  - Clifford Krauss, September 18, 2004 [Minneapolis-St. Paul Star Tribune]
  [*]Canada's Once-Proud Public Health System in Crisis
  - David Ljunggren, September 14, 2004 [Reuters (Ottawa)]
  [*]Hospitals to cut, again
  - September 5, 2004 [Toronto Star]
  [*]Canada's Medical Nightmare
  - Robert J. Cihak, M.D., September 1, 2004 [Health Care News]
  [*]Canada faces shortage of doctors
  - August 19, 2004 [MSNBC]
  [*]Canadians losing faith in health system: poll
  - August 16, 2004 [CTV.ca]
  [*]Ontario hospitals a health risk
  - Michael Hurley, August 8, 2004 [Toronto Star]
  [*]Need surgery? Here's how long you'll wait
  "It's inhuman. The quality of my life is horrible and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it." - Jason Fekete, July 28, 2004 [Calgary Herald]
  [*]Docs, nurses fed up
  Canadian doctors and nurses are fed up with inter-governmental "bickering" that is dragging out wait times and causing more pain and suffering for patients. - July 28, 2004 [Winnipeg Sun]
  [*]Free Health Care?
  ...in some cases, patients die on the waiting list because they become too sick to tolerate a procedure. - Walter E. Williams, July 24, 2004 [CATO]
  [*]The truth about Canada's ailing health-care system
  All the major candidates in Canada's recent national election acknowledged that the country's health-care system is failing Canadians. - Robert J. Cihak, July 13, 2004 [The Seattle Times]
  [*]Health-care crisis looms, even with new money
  Canada's health-care system is "five to 10 years" from the breaking point -- even with cash injections from government, says the new president of the B.C. Medical Association. - Doug Alexander, July 5, 2004 [Vancouver Sun]
  [*]Emergency room delays a strong campaign factor
  "Go into the emergency room — it is the most pitiful piece of work you ever seen in your life." - David Bruser, June 22, 2004 [Toronto Star]
  [*]Canadian Health Care in Crisis
  Analyst visits NC to describe how single-payer health care really works in practice. - Donna Martinez, June 17, 2004 [Carolina Journal]
  [*]Quebec cancer patients sue over wait
  Women waited months for radiation; lawsuit could cost system $50-million. - Ingrid Peritz, March 11, 2004 [The Globe and Mail]
  [*]Health care: no waiting lists
  'You get knee surgery within two days ... try and get that in human hospitals.' Canada's [private] pet health-insurance industry is projected to grow at roughly 50 per cent a year... - Robert Scalia, November 30, 2003 [Montreal Gazette]
  [*]For some, surgery abroad a welcome answer
  - Daniel Girard, November 29, 2003 [Toronto Star]
  [*]Canadian Doctors Eyeing United States
  - Clifford Krauss, October 17, 2003 [The New York Times]
  [*]The Top Ten Things People Believe About Canadian Health Care, But Shouldn’t
  - Brian Lee Crowley, October 9, 2003 [Mackinac Center for Public Policy]
  [*]Canadians' health at risk, CMA says
  - Valerie Lawton, September 26, 2003 [Toronto Star]
  [*]Burnout is now doctors' ailment
  Almost half of Canadian doctors say they're burned out, emotionally exhausted and blame medicine for putting a drain on their family life. - Karen Palmer, August 20, 2003 [Toronto Star]
  [*]New MRI clinic in row over poaching
  While she insists she's not making any money off the venture, she says it provides an income allowance for her and her husband, the other principal in the company. - Theresa Boyle and Robert Benzie, July 28, 2003 [Toronto Star]
  [*]Price Controls and Overall Drug Spending
  The Canadian system, however, tends to push up overall spending on prescription drugs, despite the low prices for some brand name ones. - John Melby, July 2, 2003 [Buckeye Institute]
  [*]Gore Endorses Canada's Medical System
  - William L. Anderson, November 29, 2002 [Mises]
  [*]How Good is Canadian Health Care?
  - August 2002 [Fraser Institute]
  [*]Canadian Health-Care System Is No Model for Prescription Drug Reform
  - May 1, 2001 [Mackinac Center for Public Policy]
  [*]The Ghost of America's Health Care Future Lives in Canada Today
  - James Frogue and Robert Moffit, December 25, 2000 [Capitalism Magazine]
  [*]Socialized Medicine: The Canadian Experience
  Explores several lessons that can be drawn from the Canadian experience with socialized medicine:
  
  • Socialized medicine, although of poor quality, is very expensive;
  • Political compromise is the result;
  • Socialized medicine is both a consequence and a great contributor to the idea that economic conditions should be equalized by coercion. - Pierre Lemieux [The Freeman]
  
  [*]Canadian Health Care
  ...if Canadians knew as much as they think they do about the economic and moral workings of Medicare, they might not be as enthusiastic as they are about their cherished right to 'free' health care. - Andrei Kreptul, August 30, 2000 [Mises]
  [*]When Patients Become Victims - The Crime of Government-Run Health Care
  - Merrill Matthews Jr., Ph.D. and Kerri Houston, May 1, 2000 (PDF format)
  [*]Socialized Medicine Leaves a Bad Taste in Patients' Mouths
  - Lawrence W. Reed, February 23, 2000 [Mackinac Center for Public Policy]
  [*]Canadians Dissatisfied With Socialized Medicine
  - January 26, 2000 [NCPA]
  [*]Memo to Al Gore: Canadian Medicine Isn't Cheap or Effective
  - William McArthur, former chief coroner for British Columbia, January 28, 2000
  [*]Loved to Death: America's Unresolved Health-Care Crisis
  As Canada's national government slashes spending on medical care in order to reduce the deficit, local provinces are reducing medical staff. In Ontario, pregnant women are being sent to Detroit because no obstetricians are available. Specialists of all kinds are in short supply. Patients have to wait eight weeks for an MRI, ten weeks for referral to a specialist, and four months for heart bypass surgery. - Michael J. Hurd, November 1997 [Liberty Haven]
  [*]Is Canadian Health care a Good Model for the U.S. to Follow?
  - Michael Walker, August 1994 [Liberty Haven]
  [*]Health of the State (commentary by a cancer survivor)
  I tell you this not to alarm you, to elicit sympathy, or to bore you. I tell you because the episode has been, for me, a salutary lesson (just in case I needed one) in why the government should not be allowed anywhere near a syringe, a dressing, a scalpel, an oxygen mask, a tissue sample — anything to do with health.
  [*]Michigan Shouldn't Copy Canada's Health System
  - Lawrence W. Reed, July 29, 1991 [Mackinac Center for Public Policy]

Waiting still sucks.

 

[what... huh?]

Please reply in one of your derailed health care threads.


At first I thought you wanted very much to discuss this... but you keep running away from discussions in each one when it gets hard. When you get the time... Ill be lurking... in all of them.