Root Development vs Plant Growth

5nug

5nug

Active Member
just let your roots grow as big as they can, because if there are more roots the plant can take in more nutrients and it will be a healthier bigger plant.
 
S

skunkkushhybrid

New Member
The roots also produce the very important hormone, auxin.
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Actually auxins are situated in the very top of the plant and they work their way down to the roots, causing cells to stretch along the way. What you are thinking of is cytokinins, these are heavily situated in root tips, and these work their way up the plant, creating new cells and shoots :)

Indeed auxins are heavily involved in a plants shade response, so when you turn down the lights or turn them off, this activates a rush of auxins, causing not only the plant to stretch, but also the roots. This is why roots grow better at night, and also the reason plants stretch :)

Now you might say that with less root tips that not as many cytokinins can be produced... but this is wrong, the plant will produce as many as it takes to keep up with demand... once you turn on the lights photosynthesis begins, the leaves start making sugars from the light, and the water is sucked up through the plant with transpiration.
 
daddychrisg

daddychrisg

Well-Known Member
Yeah man, everything is going pretty well for me. I have learned quite abit since I last spoke with you, and am now going to give a side by side grow with soil "fox farms ocean forest/light warrior" with of course fox farms organic nutes, vs. Canna Coco/perlite with GH 3 part, floralicious, Cannazyme, Liquid Kool bloom, and two weeks of Kool bloom powder as directed from GH. The watering system for the coco will be a flood n drain in 2.5 gallon buckets. The pic is from the up and coming next harvest, day 48. Mostly Blue Hash but also few strains I am trying out Ogre, Lemon Diesel, Master Kush, Don and a new Lavender. Anyhow, I hope all is well on your side of the world also..DCG
 

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S

skunkkushhybrid

New Member
good to hear things are growing well daddyc... you should fly over and visit me at skunk skool... be great to see some pic's of your grows ;)

oops... did i just break a rule? oh, hold on... i shouldn't even be here in the first place. ha ha ha

best of luck daddyC!!!!
 
daddychrisg

daddychrisg

Well-Known Member
Skunk school sounds good, but is there any grants out there to help pay for my tuition? I don't know if I have the funds right now for such a prestiges school.... Cheers to another great day! DCG
 
skunkushybrid01

skunkushybrid01

Well-Known Member
hugetom80s said:
I apologize if this has already been said, I haven't taken the time to read through all 46 pages of the thread.
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well there you go... right away you weigh in with a half informed opinion without even taking the time to read the entire thread. If you're really interested then go back and read. however if you prefer to live in ignorance then who am i to tell you otherwise?

It seems that the basic theory is that roots "exist only to take in nutrients for the plant", right?
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Yes. Oh, and to also exude toxins.

That's partly true. But that's not remotely the only thing they do. The roots are an important storehouse for the energy created by the leaves (all the cells in a plant store energy in their vacuoles, but a huge portion can be stored specifically in the roots.) This is why growers traditionally focus on generating large root masses - this energy is tapped into during flowering/fruiting to really produce massive results.

The roots also produce the very important hormone, auxin.
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Yes... there are types of a plants root system that can store nutrients and water... this is a survival mechanism for times of low food and drought. Ever get that in an indoor environment?

Also auxins are mainly situated and created in the tops of plants and are then flooded down the plant and to the roots. there are many different types of auxins that are responsible for different jobs, even cell division which is usually primarily down to the cytokinin hormones (which are conversely more heavily situated in the root tips).


I can't imagine how the effort to reduce or limit root mass would be beneficial. If you've got poor quality root mass (weak or dead roots), then getting rid of that with an enzyme treatment would be beneficial, but otherwise you're hurting potential yield.

You can certainly bring a plant through to the end of its lifecycle without a lot of roots, but you're not going to get as much yield from the plant as you would with a larger root mass.
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You need to try harder :)

Think about it: how many pro-athletes train strictly with IV-nutrition, bypassing their body's natural digestion system, simply because it's more "efficient"?
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he he he

If you can boost a plant with foliar feeding, and hydroponics is efficient enough to support the same size plant with a smaller root mass (both of which we know to be true), wouldn't the optimal results come from maximizing everything in balance?
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No... you tip the balance to your favour. Think about this, what all growers should do is support the main stem during flower... this will help divert any energies the plant would use in growing a thicker stem into growing more bud. this tips the balance into our favour... growing roots takes energy too.


Plants aren't simple structures. Science describes the flowering process as one of the most complicated biochemical processes in nature and they've evolved over a vast amount of time to this form. To properly care for plants we have to not only pay attention to their individual needs, but the balance of those needs. If you increase CO2, you need to make sure you're providing enough light - else you're wasting the extra CO2 because the plant doesn't have the power to use it.
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:sleep:

Now I admit I could be wrong. I haven't tested any of this specifically.
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excellent point!

But the science just doesn't back up the theory. What we know to be true about plants says they use their roots for much, much more than simple nutrient uptake. The size of the root mass directly impacts the size and quality of the harvest in more ways than just its ability to take in nutrients. The stored energy (starches) are invaluable. That's why the plants store energy in the roots: they're saving up for the leaner months in the fall when they know they're going to be working extra hard to ensure they can reproduce and pass their genes on to the next generation.
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omg... you don't see what you've just said here do you? saving up for leaner months... when does this happen indoors? do you provide your plants with lean months to ensure you keep up with their natural environment?

Like the salmon in the ocean, storing energy as fat for the long, arduous swim upstream to mate and die - plants store up that energy in their roots so they can go huge on flowering and reproduction.
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here we go again :roll:

Anyway, that's the way I understand it. Plants may be able to survive without a lot of roots, but they need a large, healthy root mass to really thrive.
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Nope, just a healthy root system that is adequately cared for... but as you say, you've not tested any of this out for yourself so your understanding is at best extremely limited


Here are a few old pic's of mine. the plant in the pic is a bubblegum mother plant and has provided around 80 clones at the time of this pic. the plant never left the pot and was flowered after another 100 or so clones. no root bound, no problem. plant is in a pot around 1/8th of a gallon.
 

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skunkushybrid01

skunkushybrid01

Well-Known Member
daddychrisg said:
Yeah man, everything is going pretty well for me. I have learned quite abit since I last spoke with you, and am now going to give a side by side grow with soil "fox farms ocean forest/light warrior" with of course fox farms organic nutes, vs. Canna Coco/perlite with GH 3 part, floralicious, Cannazyme, Liquid Kool bloom, and two weeks of Kool bloom powder as directed from GH. The watering system for the coco will be a flood n drain in 2.5 gallon buckets. The pic is from the up and coming next harvest, day 48. Mostly Blue Hash but also few strains I am trying out Ogre, Lemon Diesel, Master Kush, Don and a new Lavender. Anyhow, I hope all is well on your side of the world also..DCG
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yeah everything is great here... and those are some dank looking plants you've got under that MH... is it a 1000w?
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Haven't bothered reading this thread either, don't need to. Just a few thoughts and kudos to hugetom80s for bringing up some good points.

Roots have a function - the uptake of water and elements. The greater the root mass (and root hairs) regarding uptake potential, the better plant health, vigor and production in general. See this link regarding how to create a more efficient, fibrous root mass. Note the health and vigor of the plants. https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

Auxins are responsible for cell division and elongation. Auxins collect in the greatest amount in the terminal, apical tips of dominant plant tissue. Doesn't matter if it's a terminal leader or a tap root. Auxins are not flooded anywhere, they are created on site and do not move down the plant inducing stretching as they go. They can and will be redirected regarding production/collection mainly to the dormant buds located directly behind the tip, if the tip is terminated. Again, this applies to above and below ground material. If you terminate the tip of a root or a stem, auxins will induce branching behind that point.

Roots are the primary storage unit for carbos that were manufactured during the day - think carrot, potato, radish. Stems also store "energy" reserves but to a lesser degree than roots.

It's been my experience that root growth occurs most when a plant is allowed to rest. That may be a function of my ability to read a plant such that I will not allow it to be subjected to a light saturation point where "more becomes less." Light saturation is a point of optimum photons reception relative to plant health (ability to process those photons), degree of cell division/elongation, etc.

UB
 
skunkushybrid01

skunkushybrid01

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Haven't bothered reading this thread either, don't need to. Just a few thoughts and kudos to hugetom80s for bringing up some good points.

Roots have a function - the uptake of water and elements. The greater the root mass (and root hairs) regarding uptake potential, the better plant health, vigor and production in general. See this link regarding how to create a more efficient, fibrous root mass. Note the health and vigor of the plants. https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

Auxins are responsible for cell division and elongation. Auxins collect in the greatest amount in the terminal, apical tips of dominant plant tissue. Doesn't matter if it's a terminal leader or a tap root. Auxins are not flooded anywhere, they are created on site and do not move down the plant inducing stretching as they go. They can and will be redirected regarding production/collection mainly to the dormant buds located directly behind the tip, if the tip is terminated. Again, this applies to above and below ground material. If you terminate the tip of a root or a stem, auxins will induce branching behind that point.

Roots are the primary storage unit for carbos that were manufactured during the day - think carrot, potato, radish. Stems also store "energy" reserves but to a lesser degree than roots.

It's been my experience that root growth occurs most when a plant is allowed to rest. That may be a function of my ability to read a plant such that I will not allow it to be subjected to a light saturation point where "more becomes less." Light saturation is a point of optimum photons reception relative to plant health (ability to process those photons), degree of cell division/elongation, etc.

UB
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yes i was specifically referring to the night cycle when auxins are flooded through the plant carried by ethylene. ethylene is said to speed up the process. exactly like the shade response you just mentioned.

the ethylene is also closely linked to ripening or senessence (sp?). so the dark responses we see are in actual fact merely shade responses. and when a shade response is in activation, auxins are flooded to the part of the plant that needs them. during the night when the whole plant is dark, auxins are flooded to the roots, which is why roots grow during the night and plants stretch... and they flow from the top of the plant to the bottom, elongating the plant as they go.

this is also the reason roots are active at night as the energy/growth hormones are being heavily diverted there...


btw, i said the majority of the auxin hormones are situated in the top of the plant, as this is the main growth tip. obviously they are in other places too. and once darkness falls auxins are flooded through the plant and down to the root tips.
 
iloveit

iloveit

Well-Known Member
Excuse me for my lack of knowledge but what are"Auxins"? I checked in Wikipedia but Id prefer somebody explain it in layman's terms.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
iloveit said:
Are their any methods, chemicals (organic or otherwise) to control it?
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You can regulate plant growth (which is what hormones do) with synthetic hormones, but such applications are unpredictable. I won't do it.

You can physically change the collection and distribution of auxins and other hormones by topping, etc. See my Topping thread in Advanced.

UB
 
iloveit

iloveit

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
You can regulate plant growth (which is what hormones do) with synthetic hormones, but such applications are unpredictable. I won't do it.

You can physically change the collection and distribution of auxins and other hormones by topping, etc. See my Topping thread in Advanced.

UB
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Thank you.
 
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