Obama admits to mistake

[CrackerJax]

We wouldn't have had this bill (!!!!!) and we would have had a balanced Govt. There is nothing worse for the American people when BOTH the President and Congress work together.... I actually prefer gridlock, it's the only thing which slows down the Govt.


out.

 

[Blow4Life]

You have your head on straight.

Though I have to disagree with your take on the Greenbacks. Not because they weren't a good idea, but because the government mismanaged them. By the end of the civil war they were only worth 33¢ against Gold Dollars (1/60th oz of gold, vs 1/20th oz of gold for the dollar.)

It is not possible to increase the actual size of the economy by printing more money.

Here's a way to look at it that should make some sense.

Let's say you have a company called XYZ Company. Now this company has issued 100 Million shares at $1 a share, and the market price for those shares has remained at that $1. The value of XYZ Company is going to be $100,000,000.

Now, if you announce a stock split of 2 shares for every 1 share, you are going to have 200 Million shares, but each share is only going to be worth 50¢/share leaving your market valuation at $100,000,000.

Of course, now you have 200,000,000 shares.

It's much the same way with dollars. In 1913 Dollars we have an economy that's worth $600,000,000,000 However, since 1913 we have seen the equivalent of stock splits that total 22:1. Now, since the value of the economy in 1913 dollars is only $600,000,000,000 and each share is worth $1, when the shares are increased by 22 fold you end up with 13.2 Trillion Shares (Fiat Dollars) which still only have a relative value of $600 Billion.

There was no value created by this measure.

Now, if there are people that get paid $5,000/year in these fiat dollars and their pay doesn't go up with the split then you see their actual pay go down.

For instance, if Joe the Plumber was making $5,000/year and saw that only go up 800% he'd only be making $40,000. Since he was shorted 1,400% however, his new pay is only worth $2,857 leading him to actually be worst off by the equivalent of $2,143, despite seeing is income jump $35,000/year.

That's why inflation is bad.

Of course, luckily for most citizens their pay has done a reasonable job of pacing inflation, but it still has fallen behind leading every American to be ultimately poorer.

(2200% is the total inflation from 1913 - 2007)

Nice! This is hypothetical but what would happen if the U.S. wrote its own bill. Created inflation but at a controled rate. As long as there was never a decrease in the amount of moneies available. Use Reagonomics, tax cuts for the big co's, but this time make sure the co's pass this savings along to the workers.

Basicly, what I'm saying is who cares if a gallon of milk costs $10 if minimum wage is $20 an hour. All America has to do is raise tarriffs that protect our interest. That way the other countries can't compete with our companies with paying the difference. If china produced that same gallon of milk and sold it for $4, that would hurt our plan but if Obama puts a $16 dollar tax on that gallon of milk, we win. Obama would also have to make it where U.S. co's couldn't go outside the country to produce that same gallon of milk.

I believe that our economy is the strongest in the world! Anyone imagine if this happened? The only reason why other countries can produce any good that Americans use cheaper is because they pay their workers shit! GM can't compete with Toyota if toyota can make a car for 1/2 the work cost I'm exaggerating with the 1/2 thing but it is enough to pass on that savings to the customer and also the quality of the vehicle. Making it a better buy for the public while GM battles with the unions over pay raises. Those are the American jobs that built our country!

This is just my theory. I can obviously see problems in it already like, International Banking, etc. but its a beginning. If not our own currency at least lets raise tarriffs so we can PREVENT this from happening again. As for getting us out of this. U.S. should get rid of those tax reporting laws for spending over $???? That way the people with real money and want to spend it can stimulate the economy. Remember Miami in the early 80's

 

[tipsgnob]

I made hash today.....

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Nice! This is hypothetical but what would happen if the U.S. wrote its own bill. Created inflation but at a controled rate. As long as there was never a decrease in the amount of moneies available. Use Reagonomics, tax cuts for the big co's, but this time make sure the co's pass this savings along to the workers.

Basicly, what I'm saying is who cares if a gallon of milk costs $10 if minimum wage is $20 an hour. All America has to do is raise tarriffs that protect our interest. That way the other countries can't compete with our companies with paying the difference. If china produced that same gallon of milk and sold it for $4, that would hurt our plan but if Obama puts a $16 dollar tax on that gallon of milk, we win. Obama would also have to make it where U.S. co's couldn't go outside the country to produce that same gallon of milk.

I believe that our economy is the strongest in the world! Anyone imagine if this happened? The only reason why other countries can produce any good that Americans use cheaper is because they pay their workers shit! GM can't compete with Toyota if toyota can make a car for 1/2 the work cost I'm exaggerating with the 1/2 thing but it is enough to pass on that savings to the customer and also the quality of the vehicle. Making it a better buy for the public while GM battles with the unions over pay raises. Those are the American jobs that built our country!

This is just my theory. I can obviously see problems in it already like, International Banking, etc. but its a beginning. If not our own currency at least lets raise tarriffs so we can PREVENT this from happening again. As for getting us out of this. U.S. should get rid of those tax reporting laws for spending over $???? That way the people with real money and want to spend it can stimulate the economy. Remember Miami in the early 80's

Inflation is never good ,because it does not actually add anything to the economy.

Same way that despite minimum wage hikes after minimum wage hikes people on minimum wage are still poor.

Or in simple terms: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH.

 

[medicineman]

Inflation is never good ,because it does not actually add anything to the economy.

Same way that despite minimum wage hikes after minimum wage hikes people on minimum wage are still poor.

Or in simple terms: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH.

Inflation bad, tarrifs good.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Inflation bad, tarrifs good.

Tariffs are good with in reason. Like 5% across the board to generate revenue. Protecting industries from competition. Not so much. We saw how that worked in Detroit from the 50s to the 70s.

I mean, just look at the Mustang.

1967 - 1973 - Pony Car
1974 - COW CAR

That was a result of a industry protected from competition, or a monopoly.

Another case would be the protection of AT&T by the Federal Government. What happened? Inflated Long Distance Rates. Monopolies are bad for the economy, because they take more money from their customers than they would if they were facing competition for providing an inferior product.

 

[tipsgnob]

the government broke the telephone company once..I guess it's hard to keep a good monoply down...
and your theory about the automobile...american car companies make some of the best cars in the world now...if what you said was right they would still be making junk...

 

[CrackerJax]

The best cars made in America today are by foreign companies with plants in the US.

out.

 

[tipsgnob]

opinions are like assholes everybodys got one....

and the kind of cars I like...chevrolet, ford and chrysler make some awesome fucking cars...

but...that just me...I wouldn't drive a honda to a funeral..

 

[CrackerJax]

Well, that is just you..one need only look at the data to see who makes the better car.... it certainly isn't coming out of Detroit that's for sure. Not for a very long time.


out.

 

[ANC]

 

[max420thc]

Well, that is just you..one need only look at the data to see who makes the better car.... it certainly isn't coming out of Detroit that's for sure. Not for a very long time.


out.

the data says ford is the best made car in the world.at least right now.
the chystler 300 is a awsome car.american made trucks are the best in the world and dollar for dollar the USA makes the best sports cars in the world.

 

[CrackerJax]

Well Ford is not a car is it? If Detroit made the best cars, their sales would not be in the tank.... and if you look at international sales....(a true barometer), it's not even close. Hence the reason why a bailout is nuts for these guys... let them go under. It's their only hope.


out.

 

[max420thc]

even toyota is losing money hand over fist right now.
you cannot sell 20 and 30 thousand dollar cars to broke people without a job and scared about their future.i dont care how good you make them.

 

[max420thc]

i agree about letting them go under.all they have to do is file chapter 11 i think it is.re organize screw all the union workers out of their retirement and wipe the slate clean with their creditors ..the dems do not want them to do that because the unions who the democrats are beholding to need that retirement and bennifitathat is what you are seeing with congress and the big three right now.exept ford.they dont want any government money.all this bail out shit if FOR THE UNION ONLY.the car makers would be better off going bankrupt .

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Well Ford is not a car is it? If Detroit made the best cars, their sales would not be in the tank.... and if you look at international sales....(a true barometer), it's not even close. Hence the reason why a bailout is nuts for these guys... let them go under. It's their only hope.


out.

Has nothing to do with the quality of their cars has to do with their price competitiveness.

I've seen Ford Ranger's hit 300K+ when just maintained as normal.

It has nothing to do with the quality of their products, but with the cost of those products due to weak, spineless management that is unwilling to lay the smackdown on overbearing, over demanding unions, and explain, "Listen, Bitches, I know you all want to be able to buy panties so you can let your wives wear the pants, but until we are gaining market share instead of losing it you're going to have to do with out."

 

[******]

Has nothing to do with the quality of their cars has to do with their price competitiveness.

I've seen Ford Ranger's hit 300K+ when just maintained as normal.

It has nothing to do with the quality of their products, but with the cost of those products due to weak, spineless management that is unwilling to lay the smackdown on overbearing, over demanding unions, and explain, "Listen, Bitches, I know you all want to be able to buy panties so you can let your wives wear the pants, but until we are gaining market share instead of losing it you're going to have to do with out."

make a car for 5k sell it for 20k build 1 for 20k sell it for 60k . execs make 100s of times what production makes but it's the workers fault they are broke , all makes sence to me

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

make a car for 5k sell it for 20k build 1 for 20k sell it for 60k . execs make 100s of times what production makes but it's the workers fault they are broke , all makes sence to me

There's also thousands of workers for every executive. Besides, it's more like 20 - 30x what the line men make (including OT and Benefits.)

Basing what the Executives of Detroit make on what the average American makes is dishonest, and even then it's only 50 - 60x.

So not only are you exaggerating, but you're exaggerating to such wild amounts that it's no longer amusing, funny, or intelligent.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

I've seen your future, and it sucks!

 

[tipsgnob]

one the problems with ford and gm is bad investments. gm bought saab and have lost money on it. ford bought jaguar and lost money on it. gm spent billions in china, which will take at least 30 years to see a profit, if ever. and there many more examples.
in the good old days the auto execs were car guys. remember lee iacocca? when iacocca was the president of ford he bleed ford blue. when he took over chrysler the government bailed chrysler out and the government got repaid, with interest.
when john delorean was with gm, when they would build a new hotrod, he would take it out to woodward blvd and street race it to make sure it was what it was supposed to be.
the car execs today don't drive their own brands, and I imagine that most of them have never even popped the hood on a car.