lets see what reaction I get to this.....

[Fogdog]

I have no problem with wages to rise, my question was how he would go about it. Throwing a bunch of new money into the system will just make its way up the food chain, another billionaire or two if the system remains the way. One thing that is upsetting the apple cart is the pandemic, it caused some nearshoring to happen, more to come. This will bring more prosperity to the US. Want to kick it up into high gear, have the US no longer patrol the seas. Container traffic will be at the mercy of pirates driving up the costs. The only problem with that is the powers that be will get preasured by big business to keep profits going. That and Taiwan. China said it will take it over, not just when. If there was not much high tech manufacturing there it would only be a bummer for the Taiwanese. But we can not let the tech get in China's hands. Wish we could just ship it over here but I bet Taiwan may not like that.

I didn't say we should throw a bunch of new money into the system.

 

[printer]

I’m guessing we are looking at the sort of predictable global catastrophe to which deep stacks of just-in-time production/inventory management are inherently prone. It’s not much different from the feedback cascades that create urban traffic jams.

I’d say the paradigm needs a frame-up redesign.

Coming from a production background I was never a big fan of just in time, worked on a single line where one breakdown had 60 people twiddling their thumbs. But we had overflow areas where we can store production so upstream processes can still continue. Once the overflow is full, everything stops.

 

[printer]

I didn't say we should throw a bunch of new money into the system.

But that is what happens when you raise up the minimum wage to $30. I am sure the people making above that will not like their wages drop to $30. A pie is only so large and you can cut it in different ways. If you want to keep the slices the same you need to make the pie bigger to go from $7.50 to $30. I was just going by what (I think it was the OP) the poster said and I asked how it would come about. Somehow I ended up the one having to give thoughts on how it would happen. And it is (to me) not all that important thing to talk about, pie in the sky stuff, when I care about other things more.

 

[Fogdog]

But that is what happens when you raise up the minimum wage to $30. I am sure the people making above that will not like their wages drop to $30. A pie is only so large and you can cut it in different ways. If you want to keep the slices the same you need to make the pie bigger to go from $7.50 to $30. I was just going by what (I think it was the OP) the poster said and I asked how it would come about. Somehow I ended up the one having to give thoughts on how it would happen. And it is (to me) not all that important thing to talk about, pie in the sky stuff, when I care about other things more.

Is "that what happens"? Really? Please do more than muse on the subject. I see articles like this and then wonder what sources you are using to justify your belief:

Don't blame higher worker pay for inflation

The recent run-up in the employment costs has had little impact on the three percentage-point increase in consumer prices.

fortune.com

Rapid wage growth has not been an important driver of inflation, according to a new analysis published by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco.

The recent run-up in the employment cost index, a measure of wages favored among economists and policymakers, “explains only about 0.1 percentage point” of the three percentage-point increase in consumer price inflation excluding food and energy, San Francisco Fed economist Adam Shapiro said in an article published Tuesday on the bank’s website.

Also, I never talked about "creating new money". Ever.

 

[cannabineer]

But that is what happens when you raise up the minimum wage to $30. I am sure the people making above that will not like their wages drop to $30. A pie is only so large and you can cut it in different ways. If you want to keep the slices the same you need to make the pie bigger to go from $7.50 to $30. I was just going by what (I think it was the OP) the poster said and I asked how it would come about. Somehow I ended up the one having to give thoughts on how it would happen. And it is (to me) not all that important thing to talk about, pie in the sky stuff, when I care about other things more.

Then perhaps throw old money i.e. excess profits and bloated executive pay into the system at the bottom. The system is awash with money. It has been concentrated into the top 0.1%. Perhaps time to open a can of social democracy on them and break those funds loose Eisenhower-style. It’s a simple idea that wears well.

 

[printer]

Is "that what happens"? Really? Please do more than muse on the subject. I see articles like this and then wonder what sources you are using to justify your belief:

Don't blame higher worker pay for inflation

The recent run-up in the employment costs has had little impact on the three percentage-point increase in consumer prices.

fortune.com

Rapid wage growth has not been an important driver of inflation, according to a new analysis published by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco.

The recent run-up in the employment cost index, a measure of wages favored among economists and policymakers, “explains only about 0.1 percentage point” of the three percentage-point increase in consumer price inflation excluding food and energy, San Francisco Fed economist Adam Shapiro said in an article published Tuesday on the bank’s website.

Also, I never talked about "creating new money". Ever.

I just spent an hour trying to get a poster understand why the way he wants to modify his amp is not a good idea. Basically got nothing done in the last four hours other than nuking something to eat. So I will say it again. My comments were not on regular wage growth but on a jump from $7.50 to $30. I think gave enough to explain why I feel that would increase inflation. Any more would just seem like nitpicking. I spent more time I expected to in asking the OP a question.

 

[printer]

Then perhaps throw old money i.e. excess profits and bloated executive pay into the system at the bottom. The system is awash with money. It has been concentrated into the top 0.1%. Perhaps time to open a can of social democracy on them and break those funds loose Eisenhower-style. It’s a simple idea that wears well.

View attachment 5354043

The first would be to get a 15% minimum tax on corporations,

Biden proposes 15% corporate minimum tax, $1 trillion new infrastructure spending
U.S. President Joe Biden offered to scrap his proposed corporate tax hike during negotiations with Republicans, two sources familiar with the matter said on Thursday, in what would be a major concession by the Democratic president as he works to hammer out an infrastructure deal.

Biden offered to drop plans to hike corporate tax rates as high as 28%, and instead set a minimum tax rate that companies should pay instead at 15%, sources said. Biden’s new proposal, worth $1.7 trillion, would allow some $75 billion in unspent COVID-19 relief funds to be repurposed for the bill, one source said.

It assumes that increased tax revenues from stepped-up enforcement would raise $700 billion over a decade, drops subsidies on fossil fuels to raise additional funds, and would impose a new vehicle-miles-traveled fee on commercial trucks.

In return, Republicans would have to agree to at least $1 trillion in new infrastructure spending, one source said.

“He is personally leaning in, willing to compromise, spending time with senators – Democrat and Republican – to find out what is the art of the possible,” Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo told CNN in an interview on Thursday.

“The only thing he won’t accept is inaction,” she said. “It has to be big and bold, $1 trillion or more.”

Biden originally proposed an infrastructure package that would cost $2.25 trillion, paid for by raising taxes on the United States’ wealthiest citizens and increasing taxes on corporations from 21% to 28%. (Reporting by Jarrett Renfrew and David Shephardson; Writing by Doina Chiacu and Heather Timmons; Editing by Susan Heavey and Jonathan Oatis)

https://www.reuters.com/business/biden-offers-drop-corporate-tax-hike-proposal-source-2021-06-03/

A long article.
The 15% global corporate minimum tax gamble
“The time of tax planning has come to an end,” declared Pascal Saint-Amans, the OECD’s former tax chief, in an interview with fDi in June.

He was reflecting on the landmark 15% global corporate minimum tax whose negotiations he spearheaded from 2013 to 2022, and which is now finally reaching fruition as countries are expected to start implementing it from the fiscal year starting on January 1, 2024.

More than 140 jurisdictions have signed up to the plan, which was first unveiled in 2021 and requires multinational enterprises (MNEs) with annual revenues of more than €750m to pay an effective tax rate (ETR) of at least 15% in each jurisdiction where they operate. This is the most significant international tax reform for MNEs in recent years, and arguably a rare success of multilateralism these days – provided it pans out as planned.

The 15% global corporate minimum tax gamble

Will the OECD-championed fiscal reform level the playing field for global investment?

www.fdiintelligence.com

 

[cannabineer]

The first would be to get a 15% minimum tax on corporations,

Biden proposes 15% corporate minimum tax, $1 trillion new infrastructure spending
U.S. President Joe Biden offered to scrap his proposed corporate tax hike during negotiations with Republicans, two sources familiar with the matter said on Thursday, in what would be a major concession by the Democratic president as he works to hammer out an infrastructure deal.

Biden offered to drop plans to hike corporate tax rates as high as 28%, and instead set a minimum tax rate that companies should pay instead at 15%, sources said. Biden’s new proposal, worth $1.7 trillion, would allow some $75 billion in unspent COVID-19 relief funds to be repurposed for the bill, one source said.

It assumes that increased tax revenues from stepped-up enforcement would raise $700 billion over a decade, drops subsidies on fossil fuels to raise additional funds, and would impose a new vehicle-miles-traveled fee on commercial trucks.

In return, Republicans would have to agree to at least $1 trillion in new infrastructure spending, one source said.

“He is personally leaning in, willing to compromise, spending time with senators – Democrat and Republican – to find out what is the art of the possible,” Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo told CNN in an interview on Thursday.

“The only thing he won’t accept is inaction,” she said. “It has to be big and bold, $1 trillion or more.”

Biden originally proposed an infrastructure package that would cost $2.25 trillion, paid for by raising taxes on the United States’ wealthiest citizens and increasing taxes on corporations from 21% to 28%. (Reporting by Jarrett Renfrew and David Shephardson; Writing by Doina Chiacu and Heather Timmons; Editing by Susan Heavey and Jonathan Oatis)

https://www.reuters.com/business/biden-offers-drop-corporate-tax-hike-proposal-source-2021-06-03/

A long article.
The 15% global corporate minimum tax gamble
“The time of tax planning has come to an end,” declared Pascal Saint-Amans, the OECD’s former tax chief, in an interview with fDi in June.

He was reflecting on the landmark 15% global corporate minimum tax whose negotiations he spearheaded from 2013 to 2022, and which is now finally reaching fruition as countries are expected to start implementing it from the fiscal year starting on January 1, 2024.

More than 140 jurisdictions have signed up to the plan, which was first unveiled in 2021 and requires multinational enterprises (MNEs) with annual revenues of more than €750m to pay an effective tax rate (ETR) of at least 15% in each jurisdiction where they operate. This is the most significant international tax reform for MNEs in recent years, and arguably a rare success of multilateralism these days – provided it pans out as planned.

The 15% global corporate minimum tax gamble

Will the OECD-championed fiscal reform level the playing field for global investment?

www.fdiintelligence.com

That global corporate minimum is a step in the right direction. Corporate assets have been shuffled from one tax haven to the next.

 

[IndooorGardnerOhio]

But that is what happens when you raise up the minimum wage to $30. I am sure the people making above that will not like their wages drop to $30. A pie is only so large and you can cut it in different ways. If you want to keep the slices the same you need to make the pie bigger to go from $7.50 to $30. I was just going by what (I think it was the OP) the poster said and I asked how it would come about. Somehow I ended up the one having to give thoughts on how it would happen. And it is (to me) not all that important thing to talk about, pie in the sky stuff, when I care about other things more.

There is a Simple Way to Raise Min Wage to 30 an hour and keep the cost of living from making a huge jump. You pass a VERY simple law that states NO COMPANY can sell a product for more than 15% over the ACTUAL cost of making it and No end user seller can mark a product up more than 10% over their cost. This would limit the increase on ANY product to a max of 25% over the cost of making it, People could still make a Profit, but they couldnt do 300%+ markups on products over manfactureing cost. Problem solved. FREAKING LIMIT CAPITALISM from gouging the people. Its really not that hard.

 

[printer]

There is a Simple Way to Raise Min Wage to 30 an hour and keep the cost of living from making a huge jump. You pass a VERY simple law that states NO COMPANY can sell a product for more than 15% over the ACTUAL cost of making it and No end user seller can mark a product up more than 10% over their cost. This would limit the increase on ANY product to a max of 25% over the cost of making it, People could still make a Profit, but they couldnt do 300%+ markups on products over manfactureing cost. Problem solved. FREAKING LIMIT CAPITALISM from gouging the people. Its really not that hard.

So socialism (telling manufacturers what they can sell for) in the USA?

 

[IndooorGardnerOhio]

So socialism (telling manufacturers what they can sell for) in the USA?

Sure as hell beats what we have now, where the rich hold 98% of the wealth in the country and the average worker busting their ass, making those rich people richer , are struggling to put food on the table, so hell yes, properly applied Democratic Socialism, like what they have in Say Sweden would be 1000% better than what we have NOW in the USA.

 

[Billy the Mountain]

Sure as hell beats what we have now, where the rich hold 98% of the wealth in the country and the average worker busting their ass, making those rich people richer , are struggling to put food on the table, so hell yes, properly applied Democratic Socialism, like what they have in Say Sweden would be 1000% better than what we have NOW in the USA.

That's achieved through sensible tax policy; which the US had until Reagan started the ill-fated "trickle-down" policy.

 

[IndooorGardnerOhio]

So socialism (telling manufacturers what they can sell for) in the USA?

Let me put it another way, in cannabis terms.


If someone could show you a way, that has proven time after time after time that it will increase your quality and Yield by double what you get now, and you would produce better smoke every time using the method, would you Do it Or would you Ignore it simply because its "not your way"?


You look at all the meterics of a Good quality of life, Sweden and other countries that have democratic socialism, have Happier, More productive, Healthier and more well taken care of populations. We are Ignoring ALL those statistics because they are not "our way". Hell Even Canada has a Better quality of life than the US.

 

[cannabineer]

There is a Simple Way to Raise Min Wage to 30 an hour and keep the cost of living from making a huge jump. You pass a VERY simple law that states NO COMPANY can sell a product for more than 15% over the ACTUAL cost of making it and No end user seller can mark a product up more than 10% over their cost. This would limit the increase on ANY product to a max of 25% over the cost of making it, People could still make a Profit, but they couldnt do 300%+ markups on products over manfactureing cost. Problem solved. FREAKING LIMIT CAPITALISM from gouging the people. Its really not that hard.

Accounting is not an exact science. The sheer labyrinthine weight of oversight needed to make sure that thousands of manufacturers and millions of merchants are even approximately following such a law would require KGB-like organization in which one third of the population snitched on the other two thirds.

 

[printer]

I didn't say we should throw a bunch of new money into the system.

Missed this one. If no new money, where will it come from?

Let me put it another way, in cannabis terms.

If someone could show you a way, that has proven time after time after time that it will increase your quality and Yield by double what you get now, and you would produce better smoke every time using the method, would you Do it Or would you Ignore it simply because its "not your way"?

You look at all the meterics of a Good quality of life, Sweden and other countries that have democratic socialism, have Happier, More productive, Healthier and more well taken care of populations. We are Ignoring ALL those statistics because they are not "our way". Hell Even Canada has a Better quality of life than the US.

I am from Canada, we had/have (still trying to decide if we were better before than now) a more even tax load.

 

[cannabineer]

Missed this one. If no new money, where will it come from?

Perhaps you missed my response. Tl;dr: equitable taxation.

 

[Fogdog]

There is a Simple Way to Raise Min Wage to 30 an hour and keep the cost of living from making a huge jump. You pass a VERY simple law that states NO COMPANY can sell a product for more than 15% over the ACTUAL cost of making it and No end user seller can mark a product up more than 10% over their cost. This would limit the increase on ANY product to a max of 25% over the cost of making it, People could still make a Profit, but they couldnt do 300%+ markups on products over manfactureing cost. Problem solved. FREAKING LIMIT CAPITALISM from gouging the people. Its really not that hard.

simple?

I'm surprised at how many people say this is all so simple. No, it won't be simple to regulate the market by imposing cost-wage increases and requiring companies to justify each and every product price to the government to cap profits.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. H. L. Mencken

 

[IndooorGardnerOhio]

Missed this one. If no new money, where will it come from?


I am from Canada, we had/have (still trying to decide if we were better before than now) a more even tax load.

Best Discription I heard about Canada was from a comedian, who said something to the effect of " Canada is a Really nice apartment over a Meth lab". I THINK it was Robin Williams who said it, but it rings true on many levels.

 

[VaSmile]

simple?

I'm surprised at how many people say this is all so simple. No, it won't be simple to regulate the market by imposing cost-wage increases and requiring companies to justify each and every product price to the government to cap profits.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. H. L. Mencken

False paradox. If we tie minimum wage directly to gdp as it use to be, then the guy on the bottom will always get the exact same size slice of the economic pie and his lifestyle should remain relatively stable relative to the national economy. Yes there will always be some maintenance, fine tuning and over sight needed but it would require 2% of the effort, action, debate and political will that it dose now

 

[Fogdog]

False paradox. If we tie minimum wage directly to gdp as it use to be, then the guy on the bottom will always get the exact same size slice of the economic pie and his lifestyle should remain relatively stable relative to the national economy. Yes there will always be some maintenance, fine tuning and over sight needed but it would require 2% of the effort, action, debate and political will that it dose now

I don't think you understood the post I responded to. It was about price controls and forcing costs onto producers. I didn't say it was a bad plan, just not simple and most times things aren't simple. Usually, simple plans that are announced to solve complex problems turn out to be wrong. Or at best, poorly thought out. I agree with Canna that the accounting and controls would be a bitch to do, so maybe we shelve it while looking for something better.

This article claims MW rose with productivity growth and if it had continued to do so after 1968, MW would be about $22/hr

CORRECTION: This is What Minimum Wage Would Be If It Kept Pace with Productivity

Until 1968, the minimum wage not only kept pace with inflation, it rose in step with productivity growth. The logic is straightforward; we expect that wages in general will rise in step with productivity growth. For workers at the bottom to share in the overall improvement in society’s living...

www.cepr.net

Yours, I think, is a good suggestion.