TRUMP CONVICTED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Surely Jack has enough on Trump to have his phone tapped or even have him wired for sound! He could have recordings of calls to congress people and senators in Texas with Trump making threats to politicians while out on release! Trump is charged with obstruction of justice and has a history of tampering with witnesses and paying their legal fees in exchange for silence or lies. If anybody qualifies for a phone tap it would be Donald for sure and I can't see the warrant being a problem as long as the evidence is not used for something he is under indictment or on trial for, discovery would be an issue then.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
DOJ move for gag order in Trump Jan. 6 case puts judge in tough spot
A Justice Department request to impose a narrow gag order on former President Trump is raising a number of sticky issues for the court as it weighs how to address what prosecutors called “disparaging and inflammatory” remarks about nearly everyone involved in the Jan. 6 case.

The Justice Department argues that Trump’s comments could taint the jury pool and intimidate witnesses who might be called to testify against him — threatening to damage the case with a series of remarks on social media and along the campaign trail.

But the request, if granted, raises First Amendment issues for the candidate and feeds into Trump’s long-running narrative that the Justice Department’s actions are designed to hamper his electoral prospects.

And the stakes are high for Trump, who has a predilection for making such remarks and ignoring the cautioning of staff, and who could face fines or even jail time for violating such an order.

“The devil will be in the detail. How do you frame an order that, on one hand, preserves the former president’s right to proclaim his innocence, including by making whatever outlandish — risible even — statements he wants, but drawing the line at intimidating statements?” said Jeff Robbins, a former state prosecutor now in private practice.

“The judge has to look down the road, not very far down the road, and have it in her mind, ‘OK, if he does this, I will have to do that.”

In making its case, the Justice Department cited a number of comments from Trump, from late 2020 remarks attacking those who challenged his case that the election was stolen, to a series of comments targeting witnesses, prosecutors, and the judge overseeing the Jan. 6 case.

“Since the indictment in this case, the defendant has spread disparaging and inflammatory public posts on Truth Social on a near-daily basis regarding the citizens of the District of Columbia, the Court, prosecutors, and prospective witnesses,” special counsel Jack Smith’s team wrote in the brief.

“The defendant knows that when he publicly attacks individuals and institutions, he inspires others to perpetrate threats and harassment against his targets,” they wrote.

Still, Trump would be free to otherwise comment on the case, including proclaiming his innocence.

Laurie Levenson, a criminal law professor at Loyola Law School, said it’s a complex matter — requiring balancing between treating Trump like any other criminal defendant and making due First Amendment considerations.

“The court cannot give the message that Donald Trump is not subject to the same legal standards. I think that’s very dangerous,” she said.

“Obviously, Donald Trump doesn’t see remarks the same way others do. And so I’m wondering if this sort of gives enough notice to him as to when he would be crossing the line. … He tends to just speak ad hoc in inflammatory phrases.”

Trump immediately made clear he sees the request as an attack on his free speech rights and his campaign.

“Deranged Jack Smith, he’s the prosecutor, he’s a deranged person, wants to take away my rights under the First Amendment,” Trump said during a speech hours after Justice Department filed its motion. “He wants to take away my right of speaking freely and openly.”

“Never forget our enemies want to stop us because we are the only ones that can stop them,” the former president continued. “They want to take away my freedom because I will never let them take away your freedom.”

Still, both Levenson and Robbins said Judge Tanya Chutkan will want to establish a record of setting clear guidelines for Trump and warnings of what statements could jeopardize the case.

“I am concerned [about] what’s going to cross the line into disparaging, inflammatory or intimidating. Now, DOJ might say for example, ‘like the things that we filed in our motion.’ But you know, he’ll just find a new phrase, so it’s kind of going to be like whack-a-mole,” Levenson said of Trump, adding he may need to be warned before a formal order is issued.

“He’ll make an inflammatory statement, the judge will say, ‘Warning, not OK.’ You’ll whack that mole; he’ll make another inflammatory statement. … Trying to get him to behave outside the courtroom in a way that we ask people to behave in a courtroom — it’s a long shot. ”

Robbins noted the issue is also more challenging for Chutkan as Trump has also filed an order asking her to recuse herself from the case.

“One of the things which is lurking in the background — and I’m sure his lawyers are mindful of it, he probably is as well — is this motion that she recuse herself. So he knows, and his lawyers know, the judge has to be careful that in entering any order or responding to this, she doesn’t do something which gives a motion to recuse legs,” he said.

“He and his legal team know that she’s got to be — it’s a particular headache for her. It’s an additional headache for her deciding how to deal with this protective order issue.”

Renato Mariotti, a former federal prosecutor, said Chutkan has already previewed a way to address his speech and dodge the issue of a gag order, noting she has already warned she may have to bump up Trump’s March trial date if outside factors such as his comments jeopardize the ability to carry out a fair trial in the courtroom.

“I actually think she’s more likely to do that because it’s not reviewable, really, on appeal, and she has wide discretion to do so. And I could see her moving up the trial date as a way of sending a message to Donald Trump rather than getting herself in this challenging situation where she’s trying to police his speech, which is always a tricky situation for a judge to be in,” Mariotti said last week during an appearance on MSNBC.

In some ways, the situation could be a win-win for Trump, who has already sought to politically capitalize on the gag order request, sending a fundraiser telling supporters: “If Joe Biden gets his way, this would be the LAST email I ever send you.”

Trump’s description of the order is not accurate, as he would still be able to discuss the case publicly.

Ford O’Connell, a Florida-based Republican strategist, noted that Trump’s campaign has made a point of pushing the idea that there is a two-tiered system of justice in the country, and a gag order would likely only reinforce the belief among some that he is being unfairly targeted.

“They’ll absolutely rally around him even more than they already have, and he’s essentially the nominee at this point as is,” he said.

While Trump might launch a First Amendment challenge in court and on the campaign trail if an order is issued, Robbins noted the free speech protections are not absolute.

“Although the fact that he’s running for president is extraordinary, it doesn’t change the fundamentals of the precedent that courts have the inherent authority to protect the fair administration of justice by preventing statements which are reasonably likely to interfere with jury selection, jury seating, or witnesses who are prepared to take the oath and tell the truth,” Robbins said.

I could see her bumping up the trial.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

'Thin ice': Neal Katyal on Trump's Milley attack and gag order request

5,459 views Sep 24, 2023 #Trump #JenPsaki #MSNBC
MSNBC Legal Analyst Neal Katyal joins Jen Psaki to discuss former President Trump's legal troubles and Trump accusing General Milley of "treasonous act" as Judge Chutkan weighs a possible limited gag order in the federal election interference case.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

Donald Trump urges Republican to shut down government to STOP the prosecutions against him.

59,591 views Sep 24, 2023 #TeamJustice
Donald Trump may be trying to set the record as the defendant who made the greatest number of incriminating statements in the history of American defendants. His latest incriminating statement, as reported by NBC News: "Trump demands Republicans shut down government to 'defund' his criminal prosecutions."

There are several problems with Trump's recent latest hair-brained scheme: first, law informants, including prosecutions, are considered "essential governmental functions" and are exempt from federal government shut downs. Second, Trump's statements may actually constitute an attempt to obstruct justice. Third, even if not technically a violation of federal obstruction of. justice laws, his statements are powerful and admissible consciousness of guilt evidence. Finally, Trump even throws in a little aid and comfort to the insurrections bu urging Congressional Republicans to shut down government to stop the -rosecutions against him "and other patriots," an obvious reference to other January 6 defendants.

Trump has created and handed to prosecutors so much incriminating evidence that, once his criminal cases move into court proper, Trump is toast.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Trump Georgia election juror names to be kept secret until trial ends, judge rules
The identities of jurors for the Georgia election interference case of former President Donald Trump will be kept secret until the end of the trial, a judge ordered Monday.

Those jurors “shall be identified by number only in court filings or in open court during the pendency of trial,” Judge Scott McAfee wrote in the ruling in Fulton County Superior Court in Atlanta.

Parties in the case are barred from disclosing the names, addresses, telephone numbers or identifying employment information of the jury or any prospective jurors, McAfee wrote.

The judge also barred videos, photographs or any other images — including drawings made “in a realistic or otherwise identifiable manner” — of those jurors.

But audio recording will be allowed when the jury’s foreperson reads a verdict, the order noted.

The judge’s ruling follows violent threats made against officials in Fulton County, which prompted an FBI investigation.

In August, Trump supporters posted online the names and addresses of members of the grand jury that voted to return an indictment against the former president.

Trump faces 13 criminal counts in the sweeping Georgia racketeering case, which accuses him and 18 co-defendants of illegally conspiring to overturn President Joe Biden’s victory in the state’s 2020 election.
All the defendants have pleaded not guilty.

Fulton County judge steps in to stop threats from Trump and his supporters before they start
Judge Scott F. McAfee has decided that previous threats on the Georgia special grand jury that encouraged Donald Trump's indictment were enough to protect jurors in the upcoming trial, NBC's Katie Phang reported.

In a ruling Monday, McAfee ruled that no identifying info of jurors and even prospective jurors will be disclosed to the public. Jurors will only be identified by number. No other personal information such as addresses, drawings or photos will show what the jurors look like.

There also won't be any disclosure of responses from juror questionnaires or notes, unless permitted by McAfee.

When the information about the grand jurors was released, as dictated by Georgia law, the information of those individuals was posted online, including photos of themselves or their families. Death threats quickly followed.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
It sure looks like the SCOTUS will disqualify Trump in December, if they are going to and the convictions of two of his coconspirators will be over and a verdict rendered by then too. Think they will put the cuffs on cheese and crackers in court on TV when they are found guilty in Georgia? Donald will be watching too and it should make for a Helluva Christmas. Getting disqualified will be a real kick in the nuts for him, especially if the RHINOs steal his nomination by betraying him! They will obey him not the SCOTUS, right now he is leading the republicans for the nomination by a mile. Facts and indictments make no difference to most of the base, neither will convictions or even disqualification matter to many of them. He will command 30% of the republican base no matter what and if he turns on the GOP it will be game over for them in 24. If they reject him, he will be pissed and if you thought Kevin and crowd were walking the tight rope now, wait until Donald has them jumping through rings of fire! He will be going down in court right in the middle of their primary seasons and he will be desperate and panicking.

If they send his coconspirators to prison, they will send him to one too and he will know what the sentences will be for the two sucker lawyers who went first with early trials. What will the judge do, give him house arrest and the rest 20 years to life in the slammer? How much time will cheese and crackers get? He and we should know in January, after he is probably disqualified from the primaries, if the cuffs go on them in court after the verdict, he will see it and when they appear in orange for sentencing, he will see that on TV too. Think he will freak out even more?
 

PopAndSonGrows

Well-Known Member
We at Team Nothings-Gonna-Happen propose to change the thread title to "TRUMP INDUCTED". . ... because my gawd, he's gonna get inducted into the Presidency, the Hall of Fame hell he'll probably get a Grammy for that weird prison choir album..

I mean WTF? --70% of Americans think Biden is too old at 80, but 60-summ% thinks Trump at 77 is "the only person who can save this country". I just don't get it. Let's just induct him and be done with all this song & dance.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
We at Team Nothings-Gonna-Happen propose to change the thread title to "TRUMP INDUCTED". . ... because my gawd, he's gonna get inducted into the Presidency, the Hall of Fame hell he'll probably get a Grammy for that weird prison choir album..

I mean WTF? --70% of Americans think Biden is too old at 80, but 60-summ% thinks Trump at 77 is "the only person who can save this country". I just don't get it. Let's just induct him and be done with all this song & dance.
1) fuck a poll.

2) between resistance and capacitance comes induction.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
We at Team Nothings-Gonna-Happen propose to change the thread title to "TRUMP INDUCTED". . ... because my gawd, he's gonna get inducted into the Presidency, the Hall of Fame hell he'll probably get a Grammy for that weird prison choir album..

I mean WTF? --70% of Americans think Biden is too old at 80, but 60-summ% thinks Trump at 77 is "the only person who can save this country". I just don't get it. Let's just induct him and be done with all this song & dance.
Have you figured out your side of the bet yet? You better do it soon because a whole lot of losing is coming Trump's way. Some of his losses require that he serve time.

Don't trouble yourself with polls from media that are just done to gather eyeballs for ads. The only poll that matters is an election poll. Right wing fascists including Trump have been consistently losing them. Not saying people should be complacent. Just saying if they keep showing up in large numbers even Trump agrees he can't win.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Jesus Christ! o_O


BREAKING: Ex-Trump White House Aide Cassidy Hutchinson drops bombshell on tonight’s Rachel Maddow, reveals that, on January 6, she personally witnessed Trump chanting along with the rioters who yelled “Hang Mike Pence!” as he watched on an Oval Office TV.

Hutchinson also revealed that she heard Trump screaming “hang” over and over “repeatedly” — and it immediately struck her as “crazy” the rioters “were calling for the vice president to be hanged” and “the president was okay with it,” “didn’t want to do anything” about it, and “didn’t think they were doing anything wrong.”

This is a truly stunning revelation. A sitting American president incited his supporters to attack the capitol while chanting for his vice President to be hanged — and then he actually chanted ALONG with his violent, bloodthirsty insurrectionists.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Polls. After 2016, I can't put much credence in them.
My principal gripe is that formerly respectable news outlets are giving polls the same kind of attention as news.

It has created a market with a proliferation of polling organizations, with variable quality (and very variable ethics) of results.

As Fogdog says, the only poll that matters is on a ballot.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Trump team bashes proposed gag order in Jan. 6 case
Former President Trump vigorously urged a judge Monday to deny a Department of Justice (DOJ) request for a “narrow” gag order limiting how he can talk about witnesses and others involved in his prosecution stemming from the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol.

The 25-page brief from Trump’s legal team sounded much like the president himself, boasting of his recent poll numbers and casting the DOJ request as a way to hamper his electoral prospects.
It comes after the Justice Department called some of Trump’s comments intimidating, arguing that his barrage of criticisms of the case threaten the integrity of the process

“The prosecution would silence President Trump, amid a political campaign where his right to criticize the government is at its zenith, all to avoid a public rebuke of this prosecution. However, ‘above all else, the First Amendment means that government has no power to restrict expression because of its message, its ideas, its subject matter, or its content,’” Trump’s attorneys wrote in the brief, quoting from another decision.
“The prosecution may not like President’s Trump’s entirely valid criticisms, but neither it nor this Court are the filter for what the public may hear.”

The request from special counsel Jack Smith’s team seeks to bar him from making any disparaging, inflammatory, or intimidating remarks about witnesses, jurors, court personnel, and even prosecutors, all comments it says risk damaging potential jurors’ perception of the case and could deter testimony.

Trump’s attorneys attacked the proposed gag order Monday as “sweepingly broad” and said “many of its terms are undefined.”
The government said the gag order was needed because Trump “has an established practice of issuing inflammatory public statements targeted at individuals or institutions that present an obstacle or challenge to him.”

“The defendant knows that when he publicly attacks individuals and institutions, he inspires others to perpetrate threats and harassment against his targets,” prosecutors wrote in the filing.

Prosecutors listed a string of examples, some including in the months after the election, where those attacked by Trump on social media then received numerous threats.
They go on to note the same has happened to some of Smith’s team after Trump complained about the indictment.
But Trump’s team pushed back on those arguments, writing that the former president has not intimidated anyone through his social media commentary.

“This claim is meritless. First, it is absurd to suggest the prosecution and the Court are ‘intimidated’ by critical social media posts, let alone to such an extent that it ‘constitute a clear and present danger to the administration of justice,’” Trump’s attorneys wrote in the filing.

“The prosecution does not point to a single prosecutorial or judicial function that has been impaired due to the cited social media posts, or otherwise suggest that it would be unable to fulfill its duties absent the Proposed Gag Order,” they added.
“Similarly, no witness has suggested that he or she will not testify because of anything President Trump has said. To the contrary, witnesses appear eager to share their expected testimony with the media and will undoubtedly testify at a potential trial, if called to do so.”

Trump’s attorneys largely argue the government hasn’t met the burden for limiting Trump’s First Amendment rights.
But much of the brief’s arguments are political ones, complaining that President Biden would not face similar restrictions though he has no matters pending before the court and is in no way a party in the case.
And at another point, Trump’s attorneys argue Washington, D.C., is too liberal to be swayed by the former president’s comments.

“The prosecution presents nothing but pretexts, claiming that the Court must muzzle President Trump to ensure that: (1) the prosecution, the Court, and witnesses are not “intimidated” by political criticism; and (2) the District of Columbia citizenry (who voted by a margin of around 95% for Biden in the 2020 election) do not magically transform and become biased in President Trump’s favor,” they write.

Prosecutors made the request asserting that Trump’s comments risk jeopardizing the case, intimidating witnesses and court personnel, while the attacks on the judge and prosecutors could limit the public’s acceptance of the ultimate verdict.

“Since the indictment in this case, the defendant has spread disparaging and inflammatory public posts on Truth Social on a near-daily basis regarding the citizens of the District of Columbia, the Court, prosecutors, and prospective witnesses,” prosecutors wrote.

“Like his previous public disinformation campaign regarding the 2020 presidential election, the defendant’s recent extrajudicial statements are intended to undermine public confidence in an institution—the judicial system—and to undermine confidence in and intimidate individuals—the Court, the jury pool, witnesses, and prosecutors.”
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Trump team bashes proposed gag order in Jan. 6 case
Former President Trump vigorously urged a judge Monday to deny a Department of Justice (DOJ) request for a “narrow” gag order limiting how he can talk about witnesses and others involved in his prosecution stemming from the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol.

The 25-page brief from Trump’s legal team sounded much like the president himself, boasting of his recent poll numbers and casting the DOJ request as a way to hamper his electoral prospects.
It comes after the Justice Department called some of Trump’s comments intimidating, arguing that his barrage of criticisms of the case threaten the integrity of the process

“The prosecution would silence President Trump, amid a political campaign where his right to criticize the government is at its zenith, all to avoid a public rebuke of this prosecution. However, ‘above all else, the First Amendment means that government has no power to restrict expression because of its message, its ideas, its subject matter, or its content,’” Trump’s attorneys wrote in the brief, quoting from another decision.
“The prosecution may not like President’s Trump’s entirely valid criticisms, but neither it nor this Court are the filter for what the public may hear.”

The request from special counsel Jack Smith’s team seeks to bar him from making any disparaging, inflammatory, or intimidating remarks about witnesses, jurors, court personnel, and even prosecutors, all comments it says risk damaging potential jurors’ perception of the case and could deter testimony.

Trump’s attorneys attacked the proposed gag order Monday as “sweepingly broad” and said “many of its terms are undefined.”
The government said the gag order was needed because Trump “has an established practice of issuing inflammatory public statements targeted at individuals or institutions that present an obstacle or challenge to him.”

“The defendant knows that when he publicly attacks individuals and institutions, he inspires others to perpetrate threats and harassment against his targets,” prosecutors wrote in the filing.

Prosecutors listed a string of examples, some including in the months after the election, where those attacked by Trump on social media then received numerous threats.
They go on to note the same has happened to some of Smith’s team after Trump complained about the indictment.
But Trump’s team pushed back on those arguments, writing that the former president has not intimidated anyone through his social media commentary.

“This claim is meritless. First, it is absurd to suggest the prosecution and the Court are ‘intimidated’ by critical social media posts, let alone to such an extent that it ‘constitute a clear and present danger to the administration of justice,’” Trump’s attorneys wrote in the filing.

“The prosecution does not point to a single prosecutorial or judicial function that has been impaired due to the cited social media posts, or otherwise suggest that it would be unable to fulfill its duties absent the Proposed Gag Order,” they added.
“Similarly, no witness has suggested that he or she will not testify because of anything President Trump has said. To the contrary, witnesses appear eager to share their expected testimony with the media and will undoubtedly testify at a potential trial, if called to do so.”

Trump’s attorneys largely argue the government hasn’t met the burden for limiting Trump’s First Amendment rights.
But much of the brief’s arguments are political ones, complaining that President Biden would not face similar restrictions though he has no matters pending before the court and is in no way a party in the case.
And at another point, Trump’s attorneys argue Washington, D.C., is too liberal to be swayed by the former president’s comments.

“The prosecution presents nothing but pretexts, claiming that the Court must muzzle President Trump to ensure that: (1) the prosecution, the Court, and witnesses are not “intimidated” by political criticism; and (2) the District of Columbia citizenry (who voted by a margin of around 95% for Biden in the 2020 election) do not magically transform and become biased in President Trump’s favor,” they write.

Prosecutors made the request asserting that Trump’s comments risk jeopardizing the case, intimidating witnesses and court personnel, while the attacks on the judge and prosecutors could limit the public’s acceptance of the ultimate verdict.

“Since the indictment in this case, the defendant has spread disparaging and inflammatory public posts on Truth Social on a near-daily basis regarding the citizens of the District of Columbia, the Court, prosecutors, and prospective witnesses,” prosecutors wrote.

“Like his previous public disinformation campaign regarding the 2020 presidential election, the defendant’s recent extrajudicial statements are intended to undermine public confidence in an institution—the judicial system—and to undermine confidence in and intimidate individuals—the Court, the jury pool, witnesses, and prosecutors.”
that’s been a key tactic of theirs: to call the obvious absurd [as the basis for obstructive motions].

At some point I hope a figurative pallet of drywall is dropped on their heads. They’re the sort who give lawyering a bad name with this blatant perversion of fact.
 
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