Yesterday's Mass Shooting.

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Abbott has already done that, and the rest of Texas's gov.......yeah we got some crazy ones but we also have some good one......like the gun guy and ex police officer who actually ran around helping people during the shooting. Repugs and they're masters (fed soc, nra, religious extremist "such as the knights of malta" Texas right now has the house and senate going as well....maybe they can actually open there eyes, that sensible gun laws can be done with little to no effort......if they don't there is gonna be more.....and btw even thought people are saying he has a patch on him, there is no pictures to prove that i've checked...k

the fucking idiot was runnin around on white extremist groups online and the such
RWDS patch or not, he was the genuine article and his actions spoke louder than his patch, which I' sure the state authorities would be reluctant to reveal. I mean look at the Uvalde fiasco and other incidents that reveal inconvenient truths. A better question might be if he was a registered republican and are there any happy pics of him with republican government officials? I just heard it confirmed on the news that he did have a RWDS patch on, but I don't think the state wants to admit it.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
lulz

a moral judgement on an entire nation makes as much sense as blaming the world for global warming. There is nothing actionable in your statement. You might as well shout at a tree. People can only be held accountable for what they do or things they control. Elections are won by convincing one person at a time.
Who is making the moral judgement? You would suffer or benefit from a collective decision no matter what your personal beliefs are and are in effect no different than a Russian going into Ukraine with a gun at your back, the last I heard not many Russians actually want to be there, but plenty support the war. Collective punishment is outlawed for a reason, it is wrong. But I'm not speaking of crime and punishment, and neither was Jefferson, he was speaking of cause and effect, of collective decisions, the fate of nations not individuals. Once again, causality has nothing to do with morality, except on an individual basis. Someone in Texas who voted republican has more cause to feel guilty about the mass murders than someone who voted democrat, even though the one who voted republican won't feel guilty at all. We live in a world of statistical probabilities, and we can increase or decrease those probabilities by our actions, but only to a limited degree and scope.
 

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
or maybe a deep background ck would have stopped his ass....

"Sources told ABC News and WFAA that Garcia had been in the U.S. Army in 2008 but was removed due to mental health concerns. Sources added that he espoused an extremist right-wing ideology and disliked people of color and Jews.

According to sources, the 33-year-old had been a licensed security guard. He most recently worked at an aluminum supply company."

ex military but was removed.....and that wasn't in his background ck.....


 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
He needs to quit quitting smoking pot.
I quit just before 4/20 and I'm just as disgusted by stupidity as I ever was while smoking pot, meditation helps, but I've been keeping that to a minimum for other reasons. It's spring-cleaning time, and that includes cleaning up my act. One would think that people wouldn't take a quote from Jefferson so personally and fail to realize its actual meaning, but instead assign individual guilt or innocence to themselves.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
If you are an average Russian, you might not like Vlad, but you like the idea of Russian imperialism and at some level are swapping an ideal for your liberty. You might even be an innocent child, but if Vlad nukes America Uncle Sam will kill you for Vlad's choices. Like I said it is about the fate of nations and not about the blame of individuals, it is about collective choices, but not about individual blame, because everybody suffers or benefits from the choices. It is not fair and it is not just, which is why collective punishment has been outlawed.

Those people in that conservative county in Texas never asked to be shot, but a majority of them voted republican both state and federal and knew what they stood for. That is a consequence of a collective decision, one other jurisdictions don't make and don't suffer the consequences of unless someone smuggles a gun in illegally. That applies of other states and not just Canada, the majority of people in Texas chose to live like fools and are suffering a fool's fate, innocent or guilty. They do live in a democratic republic and elected Gregg Abbot and the rest of the clowns just 6 months ago and their answer is thoughts and prayers. I guess not enough people died yet, but give it time, they are not all bad and delusional in Texas, the democrats are only down by 5 seats in the state house, but until then people die. The fascist state government that they chose are encouraging, arming and coddling the domestic terrorist who committed the mall murder, he was one of theirs and it showed in the response and lack of a news conference.
Blame a child in Russia for what Putin did. Just look at that statement. It's a wonder anyone who says that manages to feed their self. What you are doing by assigning collective guilt is othering people who are innocent. Not a very large step away from mass killings. That's what fascists do.

There is no such thing as collective guilt except in the minds of careless and lazy bigots or fascists. That said, I've made that mistake too, it's just that I've corrected myself. Texas is on the verge of tipping toward Democratic Party control. There is an almost equal number of people who will vote against MAGA GOP as will vote for for them in '24. So, no. All of Texas can't be blamed for their stupid gun violence. If you won't listen to me, then listen to Bud. He speaks true.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
After looking up the definition of "priggery", I have to say that would be the pot calling the kettle black. Just my two cents.
How so? This is interesting to me. Do you believe that because I live in the US, I'm to be held accountable for gun violence in this country? I've never owned a gun. I've never voted for a Republican. I've actively campaigned against them. I've participated in counter protests to oppose fascists and stop them from parading through the streets of Portland waving literally Nazi flags, knowing there was a good chance that we'd be attacked by Proud boys and the police and we were. I came back the next time they showed up in Portland, knowing the same risk. So, I'm to be held accountable for Trump and gun violence? If you think so then the term prig attaches to you as well.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Blame a child in Russia for what Putin did. Just look at that statement. It's a wonder anyone who says that manages to feed their self. What you are doing by assigning collective guilt is othering people who are innocent. Not a very large step away from mass killings. That's what fascists do.

There is no such thing as collective guilt except in the minds of careless and lazy bigots or fascists. That said, I've made that mistake too, it's just that I've corrected myself. Texas is on the verge of tipping toward Democratic Party control. There is an almost equal number of people who will vote against MAGA GOP as will vote for for them in '24. So, no. All of Texas can't be blamed for their stupid gun violence. If you won't listen to me, then listen to Bud. He speaks true.
Don't try to put words in my mouth, if Vlad used nukes on America, my country would not be the one exterminating the Russian population, infants and all, yours would be and has made preparations to do so. There are collective consequences, if you want to label them as guilt, go ahead, but the people of a nation suffers or benefits from the leadership, whether they choose it or not. The fact that they can choose their government does however mean culpability and moral responsibility on some level. The people of Texas chose their government and are apparently having buyers remorse, at least in some quarters.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Don't try to put words in my mouth, if Vlad used nukes on America, my country would not be the one exterminating the Russian population, infants and all, yours would be and has made preparations to do so. There are collective consequences, if you want to label them as guilt, go ahead, but the people of a nation suffers or benefits from the leadership, whether they choose it or not. The fact that they can choose their government does however mean culpability and moral responsibility on some level. The people of Texas chose their government and are apparently having buyers remorse, at least in some quarters.
You are preaching collective guilt, even the unborn are guilty by your lights. I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm repeating them back at you. It's a pretty stupid idea you are preaching.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
You are preaching collective guilt, even the unborn are guilty by your lights. I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm repeating them back at you. It's a pretty stupid idea you are preaching.
You are not repeating my words or my meaning which is clear and has been repeated by me. The children killed in Ukraine are innocent and are suffering the consequences of the leaders of their country, refusing to surrender and fighting back for their freedom and lives. They would be no more guilty of anything than the kids in Russia

The topic of discussion on another thread is the Russians wiring up the reactors in Ukraine with explosives to cause multiple nuclear meltdowns inside a war zone, an act of pure malice and spite.

In Texas a 5-year-old child was the youngest victim of the government the majority of people elected just 6 months ago. They can change their minds about it but will have to wait for the next election cycle to do anything about it, if they will. The same applies to America in general and you will have to wait a year and a half to do anything about the slaughter, or about 70,000 deaths the way it is measured in America.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
You are not repeating my words or my meaning which is clear and has been repeated by me. The children killed in Ukraine are innocent and are suffering the consequences of the leaders of their country, refusing to surrender and fighting back for their freedom and lives. They would be no more guilty of anything than the kids in Russia

The topic of discussion on another thread is the Russians wiring up the reactors in Ukraine with explosives to cause multiple nuclear meltdowns inside a war zone, an act of pure malice and spite.

In Texas a 5-year-old child was the youngest victim of the government the majority of people elected just 6 months ago. They can change their minds about it but will have to wait for the next election cycle to do anything about it, if they will. The same applies to America in general and you will have to wait a year and a half to do anything about the slaughter, or about 70,000 deaths the way it is measured in America.
There is no such thing as collective guilt. I just pointed out how stupid that idea is. Assigning guilt to a nation is a dumb idea and I doubt Jefferson meant that but I don't doubt that you mean it. I'm simply pointing out how extremely stupid the idea is.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
How so? This is interesting to me. Do you believe that because I live in the US, I'm to be held accountable for gun violence in this country? I've never owned a gun. I've never voted for a Republican. I've actively campaigned against them. I've participated in counter protests to oppose fascists and stop them from parading through the streets of Portland waving literally Nazi flags, knowing there was a good chance that we'd be attacked by Proud boys and the police and we were. I came back the next time they showed up in Portland, knowing the same risk. So, I'm to be held accountable for Trump and gun violence? If you think so then the term prig attaches to you as well.
i think that was actually a jab at Canna, not you....
Not sure if it was meant as a joke, but it made me snort....
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as collective guilt. I just pointed out how stupid that idea is. Assigning guilt to a nation is a dumb idea and I doubt Jefferson meant that but I don't doubt that you mean it. I'm simply pointing out how extremely stupid the idea is.
Jefferson and I don't mean it either and I went into considerable detail about it, but if you elect your government and they reflect the will of the majority, you are more culpable than someone who does not or cannot. However, it hardly matters since you will suffer along with the fools who voted for them.

Who would or could sit in judgment on an entire nation? Nobody, but America could exterminate one with no trial or much evidence.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Jefferson and I don't mean it either and I went into considerable detail about it, but if you elect your government and they reflect the will of the majority, you are more culpable than someone who does not or cannot. However, it hardly matters since you will suffer along with the fools who voted for them.

Who would or could sit in judgment on an entire nation? Nobody, but America could exterminate one with no trial or much evidence.
Nope, I have nothing to do with Trump being prez. I've never voted for a Republican. Ever. I've only ever opposed them. So, nope. Not guilty. Collective guilt is what lazy and bigoted people do.
 
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