"Proud Boys" face the music!
- Thread starter GoatSoup
- Start date
PopAndSonGrows
Well-Known Member
Like, why'd they pick PROUD/PRIDE as their name, that's already being used 
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
a fact the gay community was quick toLike, why'd they pick PROUD/PRIDE as their name, that's already being used
exploit
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Merrick Garland is the butt of complaints but he kicks ass.
If Garland had been quicker to put these men on trial, would he still have had his string of successes in court? That's a rhetorical question, I don't think we can say for sure one way or the other. People have been impatient and said a lot of harsh things about Garland. But he won today. He won.
Tarrio and three others stand convicted of what we all knew they did -- conspiracy to commit insurrection. Media pundits left and right trembled when Garland pressed those charges. "Too hard to prove" they said. But 2-plus years after the Jan 6 insurrection, Tarrio and three other leaders in the Proud Boys fascist gang were convicted of that crime. That conviction and convictions of the same crime in two other trial of people who were Tarrio's co-conspirators stand convicted of the same crime. Those convictions are a warning shot for radicals in Congress, Trump and fascist leaders who have taken control of government in some states. They might not be so eager to make another attempt at a coup. US democracy is a little safer today than it was yesterday. In hindsight, I ask Garland's detractors, what harm was done by Garland's painstakingly slow pace?
You know who you are. You complained about how long it was taking. Put up or shut up. Tell us. Given the benefit of 20:20 hindsight, were you right to complain?
On a different take, imagine how much better off the US, US democracy and the standing of the Supreme Court would be if Garland had been confirmed as a Supreme Court Judge instead of Neal Gorsuch?
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DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I don't think most had an issue with the way Garland proceeded against the foot soldiers of J6 and these convictions are the culmination of that. Where some do take issue is the length of time Trump has been running around loose, considering the mountain of evidence and crimes, he appointed Jack late in the game after the J6 report. I don't have an issue with it myself, it falls within prosecutorial discretion and has a larger political purpose IMHO. Trump is a symptom; the electorate are the issue and full accountability involves politics, to bust GOP members of congress over J6, their hands must first be pried from the levers of power.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Proud Boys conviction ‘amps the pressure up’ on special counsel Jack Smith
103,702 views May 4, 2023 #ProudBoys #CapitolRiot #DonaldTrump
In a historic decision, four Proud Boys were convicted of seditious conspiracy. NBC News Justice Reporter Ryan Reilly, Andrew Weissman, former Senior Prosecutor on the Mueller probe and former General Counsel for the FBI, MSNBC Legal Analyst Glenn Kirschner, and Donnell Harvin, Former DC Chief of Homeland Security & Intelligence, join Andrea Mitchell to discuss how this impacts investigations into Donald Trump. “I do think it amps the pressure up on Jack Smith because so far the leader, the person who caused all this to take place, has not yet been charged,” Weissman said. “And so the question, ‘should there be charges against the former president?’ becomes one that I think answers itself, when you see people, lower level people, such as people who are just convicted, being brought to justice, but you don't see the leader yet brought to justice.”
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
There have been a lot of complaints about the pace of Jan 6 investigations including the ones that finally drew to a conclusion today. Compared to Tarrio's case, while the stakes were high, they are nowhere near as high as they are when the DOJ prosecutes a former president and sitting members of Congress.
So, I'm asking. What damage did the slow pace of the now concluded cases do to this country? Were complaints about the pace warranted?
Using these cases as a reference, they took almost 2 1/2 years to complete. How can anybody expect even more complex and difficult prosecutions to finish any time soon? What real harm was done by having Trump "running around loose" while the DOJ investigates and considers charging him? Locking him up has the potential to cause real damage too. Is that how we want to run this country? I simply don't think it's a good idea to just lock a former president or sitting members of Congress on the basis of that they are being investigated. That sounds like something Putin would do.
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MickFoster
Well-Known Member
Fucking traitors........the lot of them.
CANON_Grow
Well-Known Member
I would agree that Garland is far and away the better individual to be a Supreme Court Justice. I am not sure what you think would be different with US democracy or how the SC is viewed? Is it because the court would be split 5-4 rather than 6-3? I don't see how it would change anything really, possibly once less ethics issue?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Yes, I think a 5-4 split is leagues better than a 6-3 split that favors conservatives. Assuming they aren't just voting according to their tribe, convincing one conservative member to vote with the progressive faction is much more likely than two. Also, having a man with his gravitas and steady hand within the court. Seems to me Merrick Garland would have much more influence within the court than lightweights like Thomas or Kavanaugh have. With 6-3 in their favor, those two don't need to make nearly as much of a case as they would if the numbers were 5-4. I think Garland could have made a very good SCOTUS judge and not just because he adds just one more judge to the Progressive side.
GoatSoup
Well-Known Member
I stand fully behind my criticism of #Gutless Garland for not pressing charges against the Grifter for over two years after his Televised Sedition. If ever there was a slam dunk case it is that.
Also the fact that he has not been arrested for his espionage in the documents case is unbelievable! How many cases of classified documents were settled after a few weeks of non-rich dumb shits, lots. But The Grifter is still prancing about flapping his lips.
And how about the Green Bay Sweep Congress Critters who are still trying to destroy our country? Even Navarrro is still at large flapping his lips after confessing on national TV! Or waht about the False Electors, who's names are known and their signatures are on the false certificates? How have they not been charged?
Just #Gutless.
Also the fact that he has not been arrested for his espionage in the documents case is unbelievable! How many cases of classified documents were settled after a few weeks of non-rich dumb shits, lots. But The Grifter is still prancing about flapping his lips.
And how about the Green Bay Sweep Congress Critters who are still trying to destroy our country? Even Navarrro is still at large flapping his lips after confessing on national TV! Or waht about the False Electors, who's names are known and their signatures are on the false certificates? How have they not been charged?
Just #Gutless.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
As for the J6 conspiracy I agree that it takes time and getting the foot soldiers for seditious conspiracy is important to indicting and convicting Trump and his cronies. I view it as stage 1, stage 2 will be Trump, his cronies and WH staff, stage three will be members of congress I figure, and each case will build on the last. First, they must indict Trump, his cronies and enablers, then building on the rats and evidence generated by that, indict the congress people and senators. That's where guys like Mark meadows can earn serious time off their long sentences.
The secret documents and obstruction cases however are where there seem to be the most issues and justice delayed considering how regular people are treated in these matters and the slam dunk nature of the case. However, Jack just recently got through privilege claims with the lawyers in that case too, so it is understandable. Nobody can fault Jack for lack of alacrity or driving hard, we will see how eager he is to lock up Trump upon indictment for the secret documents and word among the pundits is that is coming very soon.
There are other issues like Trump's federal taxes, but considering Jack is also looking at mail and wire fraud and tampering with the MAL security cameras, we can let that slide for now. However, if NY convicts him of tax fraud, the questions will be asked about federal charges over the same set of facts concerning federal tax crimes.
The plain fact is Trump's presidency was a crime spree that overwhelmed the legal system with too much crime in a short period of time and that is basically the bottom line.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
What was the harm in waiting this long for those convictions that came today?
What harm is being done while we wait for Smith to finish his work?
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Garland has his ass well and truly covered and did the normal DOJ thing in conspiracy cases, they went from the bottom and are working their way to the top of the J6 conspiracy. However, Trump is not at the top of Garland's target list over J6, he is already gone for the docs, obstruction and probably wire fraud, nobody will be giving out deals for Donald's ass, they already have it. The real apex of the J6 conspiracy is not Trump and his cronies, it is members of congress and senators, J6 could not have happened if they were not part of a seditious conspiracy. Squeezing Mark Meadows nuts with a 50-year sentence will loosen up his tongue and he knows everybody who requested a pardon and why, he knows where all the congressional bodies are buried and has receipts too. Conspiracy is often easier to prove than the individual crimes and it carries very serious time, life for most of these clowns.
MickFoster
Well-Known Member
My only worry is that there's an election year coming up.........I'm hoping the hammer drops in the summer........fingers crossed.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Over 500 days until the election of 24, if they are not convicted, they will be on trial. The great thing about conspiracy indictments are they only need one or two of them to confess, plead guilty and testify to hang the rest, even if they didn't know the full plan, they are as guilty as Trump himself under the law. Jack will have rats and receipts over J6 and his real targets are congress people IMO, they've already got Trump and his cronies by the balls over J6 and someone will plead for a deal and rat out the rest, they are all a bunch of cutthroats.
MickFoster
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't it be great if not only the orange traitor went down.........and all the magas in congress as well.
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DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Some of them probably will, J6 could not have happened if congress people and senators were not part of the conspiracy and attended planning meetings at the WH and were in touch on the phone on J6. Ron Johnson tried to give Pence fake electors from his state at the capitol FFS and there are other instances like with Senators Tuberville and Cruz, that is aside from house members.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
The spectacle it would be if Trump and congressional co-conspirators were tried together, like what just happened in this Proud Boys trial.