With its metric ton of RDX.Not for home publicity, no mention of the bombing. Oh wait, it was the Ukrainian defensive missile that did it.
A lot of practice as a kid?hey igor let me borrow you walkie
it was right here a minute ago
meanwhile
I'm guessing they had not intended this, but the one effect it has had is to get western countries willing to give more arms. So the 40 or 50 folks who died, may save thousands of lives down the line.The Kh-22 is quite a heavy weapon to expend on a residential target. It is designed to hurt or kill capital ships like aircraft carriers. I wonder what strategic benefit Russian command thinks its use in this way will confer.
but would NATO go in if putin used a nuke? i'm not so sure.I Ukraine does the work themselves, they will be one of the strongest counties in Europe after this is all over. If NATO were to do it, that would not be the case.
But if there is WMD used, NATO will clean up all the Russians in Ukraine in short order. We wouldn't go into Russia because we don't want the country to break up. Or another way of saying that is we do not want loose nukes.
Yes. Which makes command’s calculus opaque to me. A six-ton missile with a terminal speed near Mach 4. and with an aiming error considerably less than the beam of a capital ship, like you all see is downside.I'm guessing they had not intended this, but the one effect it has had is to get western countries willing to give more arms. So the 40 or 50 folks who died, may save thousands of lives down the line.
If Putin used a nuke, I believe Nato going in fast and hard is effectively assured. Ignoring such a provocation would lead to very bad things for Europe’s future.but would NATO go in if putin used a nuke? i'm not so sure.
it makes me wonder how accurate the estimates of russia's remain missile stockpile are?Yes. Which makes command’s calculus opaque to me. A six-ton missile with a terminal speed near Mach 4. and with an aiming error considerably less than the beam of a capital ship, like you all see is downside.
i don't have your confidence...the EU leaders have hemmed and hawed about what they can or would give Ukraine that wouldn't upset putin too much...i don't put a lot of faith in placator's willingness to wage war.If Putin used a nuke, I believe Nato going in fast and hard is effectively assured. Ignoring such a provocation would lead to very bad things for Europe’s future.
If he throws that particular gauntlet, it’s swords out and the end of that state. If he does the stupid thing again, it will be response in kind. Not cities, but mineral extraction sites. Russia will fragment into many third-world countries.
China might be the big winner with access to what they so sweetly call the Northern Resource Area.
It depends on if they used one on a city or to "light the way" for their offensive in the north using a tactical nuke on the battlefield. Both would have dire consequences for Russia and I wouldn't rule anything out. We have no idea of America's stealth strike capabilities using nukes or what other options are on the table. However NATO airpower in Ukraine and the destruction of whatever Russian forces were there would be the first item of business. Then taking Kaliningrad by conventional forces, go ahead and try and nuke us. But that would just be the beginning, Uncle Sam would open the warehouse doors to the Ukrainians and everything would be on the table, including providing Ukraine with or stationing nuclear weapons there. The Russia's would be gone or dead there in a week, including Crimea.but would NATO go in if putin used a nuke? i'm not so sure.
you seem so certain...i am not certain. i don't know if the EU leaders of NATO can be trusted to attack when they finally satisfy their own conditions for it, or if they will waffle and cry about not wanting to escalate things further. at best, i'm considering it a 50/50 chance. i see it as much more likely that if putin does use nukes or chemical weapons, that the US will end up intervening alone, which will leave us open to a lot of criticism from the rest of the world, while NATO sits on it's hands, until shamed into participating, after the actual danger is diverted directly to US troopsIt depends on if they used one on a city or to "light the way" for their offensive in the north using a tactical nuke on the battlefield. Both would have dire consequences for Russia and I wouldn't rule anything out. We have no idea of America's stealth strike capabilities using nukes or what other options are on the table. However NATO airpower in Ukraine and the destruction of whatever Russian forces were there would be the first item of business. Then taking Kaliningrad by conventional forces, go ahead and try and nuke us. But that would just be the beginning, Uncle Sam would open the warehouse doors to the Ukrainians and everything would be on the table, including providing Ukraine with or stationing nuclear weapons there. The Russia's would be gone or dead there in a week, including Crimea.
[/QUOTE]it makes me wonder how accurate the estimates of russia's remain missile stockpile are?
if this is accurate, why are they throwing a missile like that instead of something smaller and cheaper?
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Poland could do it by themselves. They seem eager to give it a shot. But President Joe Rob would not hem and haw.i don't have your confidence...the EU leaders have hemmed and hawed about what they can or would give Ukraine that wouldn't upset putin too much...i don't put a lot of faith in placator's willingness to wage war.
Vlad using nukes with out a shocking response would be a fatal error and one not likely to happen any objections would be ignored, the range of responses has already been agreed upon most likely. Try and keep the Poles from taking Kaliningrad if the Russians use nukes in Ukraine. It would be an unimaginable shit storm unleashed on them if the Russians even used a tactical one on the battlefield. This has been made very clear to the Russians in private conversations with the US state department, immediate NATO membership and nukes stationed on Ukraine's border a few couple of hundred miles from Moscow would be the most likely result.you seem so certain...i am not certain. i don't know if the EU leaders of NATO can be trusted to attack when they finally satisfy their own conditions for it, or if they will waffle and cry about not wanting to escalate things further. at best, i'm considering it a 50/50 chance. i see it as much more likely that if putin does use nukes or chemical weapons, that the US will end up intervening alone, which will leave us open to a lot of criticism from the rest of the world, while NATO sits on it's hands, until shamed into participating, after the actual danger is diverted directly to US troops