New mandate for drunk driving detection in all vehicles

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
"Smart" TVs are the telescreens in "1984"
i've had my roku tv apart, there is no camera in it, and no mic...you have to buy an external remote with a mic built into it to be able to give it voice commands...most monitors don't have cameras built into them, and almost none of them have mics, but your computer can access your camera and mic if you have either one hooked up, and your phone can do all that out of the box...that's the real telescreen, your phone...
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Sorry to annoy you to ask for a link that says this? I looked and could only find that the National Transportation Safety Board is recommending that.

It's not necessarily linked to a loss of privacy but more to the nanny state. Or fear of it. Seatbelts were disdained and unused until seatbelt safety laws were regularly enforced. So, yeah, people do shit that causes them and others harm. I don't have a problem with locking out the driver if he/she is drunk. The idea of monitoring air in the cab is dumb, because the driver can be sober and a passenger might be drunk. But you jump from that to a different issue, privacy.

Privacy, or lack of it is a different and, to me, a serious policy issue. Europe has better laws on this than the US does. We aren't even trying. Why is that? It always comes down to how much influence corporations have on lawmakers. There is a bill in congress right now that is not going anywhere,
H.R.5807 — 117th Congress (2021-2022)

Digital Accountability and Transparency to Advance Privacy Act or the DATA Privacy Act

This bill establishes information security requirements for businesses that collect, process, store, or disclose information relating to at least 50,000 people in a 12-month period. The bill applies to information that may be linked to a specific individual or a device associated with a specific individual. It does not cover data related to employment or publicly available government records.

Specifically, covered businesses must


  • provide consumers with accessible notice of the business's privacy practices with respect to such information; and
  • if meeting a certain revenue threshold, appoint a privacy officer to oversee compliance with the business's privacy practices.
The bill further requires the Federal Trade Commission to promulgate rules requiring covered businesses to

  • limit the purpose and amount of consumer data collection to reasonable business purposes, provide consumers with clear methods to opt-in and opt-out of such collection, and refrain from using such data for discriminatory purposes;
  • provide consumers with a method to access, revise, transmit, and delete collected information; and
  • establish information security standards based on the sensitivity and level of identifiability of the collected data, risk of exposure of such data, widely-accepted practices of securing such data, and cost and impact of implementing such practices.
Finally, the bill requires the National Science Foundation, and other agencies, to support research of technology that increases the privacy and confidentiality of collected data.
Thanks for doing the actual reading.
 

Sir Napsalot

Well-Known Member
i've had my roku tv apart, there is no camera in it, and no mic...you have to buy an external remote with a mic built into it to be able to give it voice commands...most monitors don't have cameras built into them, and almost none of them have mics, but your computer can access your camera and mic if you have either one hooked up, and your phone can do all that out of the box...that's the real telescreen, your phone...
I don't have a mobile phone
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I took mine apart when I was old enough to operate a screwdriver but too young to do it well.

The chatter mechanism was a tiny leaf spring that engaged a wheel with a reeded edge, with three irregularly sized and placed flat portions to make the noise when the toy was pulled. The eyes ran on a crank-and rod mechanism familiar from piston engines, and oscillated up and down in a decidedly psychiatric manner.
 
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Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
I don't have a mobile phone
i went for years without one, mostly because i didn't need it...but i do like having one, now. i like playing solitaire on the crapper. i like having maps when i'm going somewhere new. i like being able to look up recipes at the store and seeing if i have everything...i consider the telephone and texting part of the phone to be the real cost for having it...
i have a charger in one of my desk drawers, the cord run up the leg of the desk into the back of the drawer...that is where my phone sits when i'm at home and not using it...in a closed drawer. not sure how effectivley that muffles the mic, but at least they gotta work for it, and they get pictures of the bottom of the top drawer, if they're looking.
i don't think anyone is actively monitoring me, but the phone DOES listen and use what it hears...there have been way too many times that i've been talking to someone about a project i'm about to start, with my phone in my pocket, then went to look something up and had what i was just talking about be the top search suggestion...whether what i am currently typing into the search bar has anything to do with it or not...for it to be a coincidence.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
I took mine apart when I was old enough to operate a screwdriver but too young to do it well.

The chatter mechanism was a tiny leaf spring that engaged a wheel with a reeded edge, with three irregularly sized and placed flat portions to make the noise when the toy was pulled. The eyes ran on a crank-and rod mechanism familiar from piston engines, oscillated up and down in a decidedly psychiatric manner.
it sounds like you're describing the inside of a republican's head...
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
so, here it is, ACLU is raising privacy concerns about the congressional mandate as @Hook Daddy said.


Congressional Drunk Driver Detection Mandate Raises Privacy Questions
The vague mandate leaves the door wide open for intrusion and the collection of sensitive data.


Congress has mandated that starting later this decade, all cars must have a built-in ability to detect drunk drivers and to disable their cars. However, Congress left the Department of Transportation wide latitude to figure out how best to implement such a technology, creating a very real potential that we’ll end up with a system that could be a privacy disaster.

The measure, which was included in the $1.5 trillion infrastructure bill signed by President Biden last week, says vehicles must be equipped with “advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology.” What is that? Nobody really knows, but Congress defines it as a system that can either “passively monitor the performance of a driver” to detect if they are impaired, or “passively and accurately detect” whether the driver’s blood alcohol level is above the legal limit. If impairment or an illegal blood alcohol limit is detected, the system is required to “prevent or limit motor vehicle operation.”


The article goes on to discuss the different ways to passively monitor a driver to detect drunk driving. It all sounds fantastic (as in fantasy) to me. This is not something already available. To me, this bill is intended to stimulate research by the auto makers into how to do it. I'm skeptical. Not that I'm saying it can't be done but need more proof before I'd go down the path of decrying "loss of privacy". We don't know what the tech entails.

The ACLU seems to be proactively raising the privacy issue because privacy is not yet at risk. Regulations haven't even been written yet. The provision in the spending bill calls for regulations in three years. As the ACLU says in this article:

"That means there will likely be many years in which to consider this issue and to debate how it’s implemented. We will be carefully watching every step of the way." Dudes and Dudettes, this article is a request for funding. I send them money every year. If you support what the ACLU is doing, including tracking developments like this, I hope you do too.

I'm skeptical, not cynical. I don't believe our government is pushing this in order to monitor us while in our cars, like Big Brother in Orwell's 1984. That would be cynical. I'm skeptical because I doubt this kind of passive monitoring system can be done within the time allowed. I don't see reason to be alarmed because we can't read regulations that haven't been written. But we should be ready to look them over when they are available. I'm also for research into tech that makes everybody safer. So, if congress is mandating research into better ways to prevent drunk driving, I'm not against it. Car companies probably would not fund this kind of research without this mandate, so, I don't see reason for much concern at this time.

That said, I completely support concerns the ACLU has regarding potenial invasion of privacy in this measure but not JUST this measure. If people are concerned about privacy -- which some on this thread voice concern over due to the unregulated invasion of privacy already taking place -- maybe a good start would be calling your congressional representation in DC and voicing support for H.R.5807, Digital Accountability and Transparency to Advance Privacy Act or the DATA Privacy Act
 
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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
This thread screams "I drive fine after drinking... It is the real drunks they should worry about".
It is right in line with "good guys with guns are the solution to bad guys with guns".
Maybe, but I don't think so. He's raising a valid concern. Who could have known that Facebook's data could have helped Russia get Trump elected? Well, actually some really bad people did. So yeah, let's not let our guard down.
 

Hook Daddy

Well-Known Member
This thread screams "I drive fine after drinking... It is the real drunks they should worry about".
It is right in line with "good guys with guns are the solution to bad guys with guns".
If your referring to me, I don’t ever drink and drive, and as I already said do not condone it in any way whatsoever. This thread was simply to point out how our government will take a valid issue like drinking and driving and use it for their own agenda. They pass a mandate under a spending and budget bill, but it passes and no one makes a fuss since drinking and driving is a serious problem. Next thing they aren’t testing the air but have a series of cameras in your personal car, that you HAD to pay for, and offloading everything you do to some server to be analyzed. Don’t get me wrong, I am not some conspiracy theorist, I just have an issue with them passing laws that affect my privacy under the guise of a spending bill.
 

doublejj

Well-Known Member
so, here it is, ACLU is raising privacy concerns about the congressional mandate as @Hook Daddy said.


Congressional Drunk Driver Detection Mandate Raises Privacy Questions
The vague mandate leaves the door wide open for intrusion and the collection of sensitive data.


Congress has mandated that starting later this decade, all cars must have a built-in ability to detect drunk drivers and to disable their cars. However, Congress left the Department of Transportation wide latitude to figure out how best to implement such a technology, creating a very real potential that we’ll end up with a system that could be a privacy disaster.

The measure, which was included in the $1.5 trillion infrastructure bill signed by President Biden last week, says vehicles must be equipped with “advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology.” What is that? Nobody really knows, but Congress defines it as a system that can either “passively monitor the performance of a driver” to detect if they are impaired, or “passively and accurately detect” whether the driver’s blood alcohol level is above the legal limit. If impairment or an illegal blood alcohol limit is detected, the system is required to “prevent or limit motor vehicle operation.”


The article goes on to discuss the different ways to passively monitor a driver to detect drunk driving. It all sounds fantastic (as in fantasy) to me. This is not something already available. To me, this bill is intended to stimulate research by the auto makers into how to do it. I'm skeptical. Not that I'm saying it can't be done but need more proof before I'd go down the path of decrying "loss of privacy". We don't know what the tech entails.

The ACLU seems to be proactively raising the privacy issue because privacy is not yet at risk. Regulations haven't even been written yet. The provision in the spending bill calls for regulations in three years. As the ACLU says in this article:

"That means there will likely be many years in which to consider this issue and to debate how it’s implemented. We will be carefully watching every step of the way." Dudes and Dudettes, this article is a request for funding. I send them money every year. If you support what the ACLU is doing, including tracking developments like this, I hope you do too.

I'm skeptical, not cynical. I don't believe our government is pushing this in order to monitor us while in our cars, like Big Brother in Orwell's 1984. That would be cynical. I'm skeptical because I doubt this kind of passive monitoring system can be done within the time allowed. I don't see reason to be alarmed because we can't read regulations that haven't been written. But we should be ready to look them over when they are available. I'm also for research into tech that makes everybody safer. So, if congress is mandating research into better ways to prevent drunk driving, I'm not against it. Car companies probably would not fund this kind of research without this mandate, so, I don't see reason for much concern at this time.

That said, I completely support concerns the ACLU has regarding potenial invasion of privacy in this measure but not JUST this measure. If people are concerned about privacy -- which some on this thread voice concern over due to the unregulated invasion of privacy already taking place -- maybe a good start would be calling your congressional representation in DC and voicing support for H.R.5807, Digital Accountability and Transparency to Advance Privacy Act or the DATA Privacy Act
driving is a privilege not a right...
 

doublejj

Well-Known Member
If your referring to me, I don’t ever drink and drive, and as I already said do not condone it in any way whatsoever. This thread was simply to point out how our government will take a valid issue like drinking and driving and use it for their own agenda. They pass a mandate under a spending and budget bill, but it passes and no one makes a fuss since drinking and driving is a serious problem. Next thing they aren’t testing the air but have a series of cameras in your personal car, that you HAD to pay for, and offloading everything you do to some server to be analyzed. Don’t get me wrong, I am not some conspiracy theorist, I just have an issue with them passing laws that affect my privacy under the guise of a spending bill.
They require seatbelts that I had to pay for.....and insurance. And other safety mandates like STOP signs that i had to pay for
 
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