PadawanWarrior
Well-Known Member
Not quite. You don't even grow in soil. So leave the soil questions to the big boys,
. No you can't fully trust it, but it can give you an idea.
Runnoff cannot be trusted.
- Thread starter westpoint
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. No you can't fully trust it, but it can give you an idea.
lusidghost
Well-Known Member
The first wave of runoff is extra hot, but then it will stabilize and give a pretty accurate reading.
twentyeight.threefive
Well-Known Member
What do you mean? These are in soil.Not quite. You don't even grow in soil. So leave the soil questions to the big boys,
So you are saying soil runoff EC and pH numbers are useful?
PadawanWarrior
Well-Known Member
Let me guess. Soil with salts? And runoff ppm and pH can be misleading, but it can also give you an idea. If you want more accurate pH readings get a good soil pen or probe.
twentyeight.threefive
Well-Known Member
Nope, FFOF and then top dressed with dry amendments and EWC.
Star Dog
Well-Known Member
You do know run off can come out lower?
"Of course its going to come out higher"
Is plain wrong.
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"Leachate pour thru is best used for continuous monitoring and graphical tracking of pH and soluble salts. To make this method work best an irrigation and leachate protocol must be established and carefully followed when sampling takes place. Leachate pour thru is not a good choice for casual checks (use 1:2 method for this). Unfortunately, with casual use, the "numbers" are often quite variable, inconclusive, and probably unreliable."
ag.umass.edu
Soil Testing
Quick Link: Greenhouse Media; Saturated Media Extract Submittal Form to be completed and sent with soil sample to the UMass Extension Soil and Plant Nutrient Testing Laboratory. More info below. Soil Testing A soil test is important for several reasons: to optimize crop production, to protect...
PadawanWarrior
Well-Known Member
If you're using water and organics the EC is gonna come out higher at first, then lower if you water again after. pH can be higher or lower than the medium pH depending on what your water's like and what's in the soil.
Not saying it's an accurate way to measure, but it can give you an idea if you know how to read it. And if you test it regularly you can get a better idea. But full disclosure, I don't test runoff, but I have before.
larfybudz
Well-Known Member
Just skimming through your grow journals you probably shouldn’t be giving growing advice to anyoneNot quite. You don't even grow in soil. So leave the soil questions to the big boys,
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
Runoff is somewhat misleading in soil or organic setups because of root exudates, plants selective feeds (more cat- than anions) and distorting molecules goofing the measuring electrodes.
A slurry is way better in soil as it can give an idea how pH EC registers when pure water is added to soil, to measure a grade of dissolved stuff.
300ml pure water 200ml soil, shake a min, siphon and measure.
A slurry is way better in soil as it can give an idea how pH EC registers when pure water is added to soil, to measure a grade of dissolved stuff.
300ml pure water 200ml soil, shake a min, siphon and measure.
Star Dog
Well-Known Member
I've not grown in soil since messing around with the seeds from my Afghani weed.
In coco the ec can come out as much as 70% lower.
After flipping for example or increasing led intensity the ec in your run off reflects this change, it can take 7/10 days of increased ec to bring it up to same in/out.
PadawanWarrior
Well-Known Member
Exactly. "Somewhat" is right. It can be misleading though too. I tried to make that clear. I haven't checked the EC runoff in years. It was more for fun. PH runoff can be misleading too. It can read higher or lower depending so its not the best way either, but if you do it all the time you can get an idea. But if you give acids the pH could read higher than it really is in the medium, which is kinda confusing to some people.
If I want to check pH anymore I use a BlueLab Soil Pen. But I barely ever even bring it out.
Brettman
Well-Known Member
Thank you. Glad someone said it.
ProPheT 216
Well-Known Member
@Kassiopeija was gonna follow you but you got your profile all restricted
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
I don't check runoff these days, because I have my system pretty dialed in. I have checked it in the past however, when switching to new setups or a new nute line. Really what I'm looking for in leachate in trends in things continuously going up or down. It your leachate EC is continuously rising over time, then that's an obvious indication that you can cut back on nutes. This is the reason I only run my EC around 1.3 these days instead of the 1.5 EC that I used to run. It's better to know your trends than to just guess.
kwigybo88
Well-Known Member
Ive literally seen people on forums with perfectly healthy plants decide to check runoff and then try to fix a problem that didnt exist in the first place.
Learn to read your plants. If theyre healthy, theyre healthy. If theyre overfed, you'll know it by looking at the leaves for common symptoms. In which case increase watering frequency or lower your EC but ONLY when the plant is showing deficiency.
Its not that runoff EC isnt indicative of anything but its an extremely inaccurate way to assess the health of a plant or whats really going on in the root zone. Slurry testing is more accurate but extremely messy and also not overly precise.
Now, runoff amount is contingent on watering frequency. If you treat coco like soil and only water every other day then yeah you need 10-20% because you're probably allowing the coco to dry beyond its optimal moisture content. If, like me, you water 6 times per day with drippers, then only very minimal runoff is required because the coco is always saturated.
Learn to read your plants. If theyre healthy, theyre healthy. If theyre overfed, you'll know it by looking at the leaves for common symptoms. In which case increase watering frequency or lower your EC but ONLY when the plant is showing deficiency.
Its not that runoff EC isnt indicative of anything but its an extremely inaccurate way to assess the health of a plant or whats really going on in the root zone. Slurry testing is more accurate but extremely messy and also not overly precise.
Now, runoff amount is contingent on watering frequency. If you treat coco like soil and only water every other day then yeah you need 10-20% because you're probably allowing the coco to dry beyond its optimal moisture content. If, like me, you water 6 times per day with drippers, then only very minimal runoff is required because the coco is always saturated.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
While that's true, checking runoff proactively can help you to prevent an overfeeding issue in the first place. If you are seeing your runoff EC continuously rise, that's an indication to cut back on feed, or increase feed intervals. Sure, you could not check it, and wait until the plant is clearly showing issues, but then you are suddenly having to hyper-correct the issue in effort to revive an unhealthy plant.
GroBud
Well-Known Member
When I started growing I didn't know of grow forms. I grew the first 2 years without grasscity or any other form. I learned plants by getting runoff readings. I learned when I should start feeding, why, how much by runoff readings. Most people when they think of runoffs water like normal get a good amount and expect that to give a accurate reading. Granted this method may be off a hair I've never had a adverse reaction when I grew with liquids from feeding off ppm readings. I didn't go by feed charts half dose 1/4 dose or whatever. I would get runoff readings then add calmag when my ppms would drop below good amount for plant stage. I would only add enough calmag to get me back to a good ppm number rather 50ppms or a full dose. Once a full dose of calmag wouldnt suffice then I'd add calmag and big bloom once those full doses wouldnt get me back I'd start veg or flower nutrients. Of course this isn't needed once a grower understands plant needs, medium and nutrients used but as a beginner that was a fast pace way to get a grasp on how plants are acting under dirt. In turn guided my steps above soil.
When you get a runoff reading you want to water a small amount let seep, water small amount let seep. Until your pot starts barely dripping. Get just enough runoff to stick a probe in for a reading. You want as little fresh water mixed with soil as possible for a fair reading. That water mixes itll water down reading or add to it. After a grow or two this isnt necessary unless you run into a issue imo when deficiency or toxicity is suspected checking medium conditions should be the first step in order to start eliminating causes. Unless you know you haven't fed.
Chart is what I fed by. Getting the runoffs for a new grower allows them to visually see Nutrients stacking up when plants aren't consuming all that's put in. Giving beginners a chance to back off feed before toxicity or show a lack of food giving them a chance to increase feed before deficiencies take hold. Maybe a little off but if one reading is 500 next is 800 you know they are stacking same vise versa. Strictly ppms for liquids ppm for organics are completely different as they are slow released. also I dont know much about coco this method was used in soil. Coco may not be the same
When you get a runoff reading you want to water a small amount let seep, water small amount let seep. Until your pot starts barely dripping. Get just enough runoff to stick a probe in for a reading. You want as little fresh water mixed with soil as possible for a fair reading. That water mixes itll water down reading or add to it. After a grow or two this isnt necessary unless you run into a issue imo when deficiency or toxicity is suspected checking medium conditions should be the first step in order to start eliminating causes. Unless you know you haven't fed.
Chart is what I fed by. Getting the runoffs for a new grower allows them to visually see Nutrients stacking up when plants aren't consuming all that's put in. Giving beginners a chance to back off feed before toxicity or show a lack of food giving them a chance to increase feed before deficiencies take hold. Maybe a little off but if one reading is 500 next is 800 you know they are stacking same vise versa. Strictly ppms for liquids ppm for organics are completely different as they are slow released. also I dont know much about coco this method was used in soil. Coco may not be the same
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Hiphophippo
Well-Known Member
I don’t check runoff or my water ph or ec or anything. I watch my light height and pay close attention to what’s in my soil and haven’t had any issues yet that aren’t immediately correctable. I add in recharge, epsom salt, fish guts and teas all through the grow I just pay attention to where I’m at time wise in the grow and add accordingly.growing weed is a simple endeavor if you don’t let all the nonsense take over your grow keep it simple and grow some killer buds. Some people find it more comforting to know every aspect of the plants life I just find it more comforting to keep it simple and let the plant do it’s thing. I see my plants probably four times a day and watch for issues before there a problem.