Increasing Female Probability from Regular Seeds

decrepit digits

Well-Known Member
Use females, your breeding program will be so much better when you can directly observe the female flower traits carried by both parents.
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Hmm sounds like some bro science right there, has this been proven scientifically and repeatably?
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
Use females, your breeding program will be so much better when you can directly observe the female flower traits carried by both parents.
Hmm sounds like some bro science right there, has this been proven scientifically and repeatably?
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Yup, breeding is all about selection and has been since long before it became a science.
 

ComputerSaysNo

Well-Known Member
sometimes even rollitup is full of shite
"Sometimes." :dunce:

Cervantes is the origin of some of the most pervasive cannabis bro-science.
He is probably not the origin, but he relayed some of it, and since his books are valuable in general, and a lot of people read them, the misinformation proliferates.

In my opinion his "Bible" is super-valuable overall, the good information by far outweighs the few myths. Even on "flushing" (pre-harvest) he is not straight-out in favour.

I think he should get a pass for having some bad science in his books. He did write those when Cannabis was illegal everywhere except NL (sort of), and it was very difficult to get first-hand knowledge unless you had very good contacts that could be trusted. It wasn't like today where people like Bruce Bugbee put out 1A research, and there are lots of breeders in legal countries with so many samples to draw from.

I was disappointed by his latest book though. Extremely bloated and badly edited, and content not reasonably updated. The original "bible" is much better. Would still recommend it, with some companion sources of info (not RIU...).
 

ComputerSaysNo

Well-Known Member
There is all kinds of stuff out there that people claim increases the chances of females. Most of it is laughable at best.
All the while it would be fairly easy to confirm or reject with a controlled study. Breeders pop hundreds of plants, they should have the means to test a few of these claims.

I would be cautious with dismissing it all as "laughable"; I think it's feasible that you can influence plant sex through environmental factors. After all, you can also influence it by spraying the plant with STS... so it's not set in stone when the seed is sprouted.
 
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ComputerSaysNo

Well-Known Member
Use females, your breeding program will be so much better when you can directly observe the female flower traits carried by both parents.
Hmm sounds like some bro science right there, has this been proven scientifically and repeatably?
How is that "bro science" what he said? It is quite obvious.

Since we are interested in the female plants only, we want to observe traits of female plants, not males. We have a good way to make female pollen (spray female plant with STS). There is no reason not to use it.

I fully agree with him.
 

Antidote Man

Well-Known Member
Bro science is generally true information that hasn't been backed up by scientific study and analysis. Basically, things that are known to be true and are accepted but haven't been completely put to the test by legitimate sources. Or is that a bro science opinion?

That seed chart is straight up misinformation, and perhaps something that has only slight truth to it.
 

ComputerSaysNo

Well-Known Member
To me, "bro science" is pseudo-science that might or might not be true. If it holds any value, then it's by accident and not because it was derived correctly. @Antidote Man

End-of-harvest flushing one of the best examples. It already starts with the name ("flushing"), when in plant science the concept is called "leaching". Then it goes with a vague intuition that that would "draw the minerals out of the plant", while science gives no indication whatsoever of that (the minerals stay in the plant). Also, it is assumed that said minerals negatively affect the product, which, again, is disproven by actual science.

So, a lot of "intuitive concepts" with no actual science backing them up, but then the concepts are made to sound a little scientific, and jargon is invented, and it is assumed that that seals the deal and a lot of people accept it as gospel.

Bro science at its best.

(Bonus points if, when an actual scientists comes along and dismantles the bro theory, they are dismissed in various ludicrous ways.)
 

Antidote Man

Well-Known Member
I think most statements stem from someone believing something to be true and so what's upheld as true is often what's generally accepted by multiple people saying/believing until its proved as false. No? We don't all have the time to test everything out. I think that's what this forum is for... I give props to those correcting bad information but I also think the truth correlates with 'general' popular opinion without needing science proving it.

Like we could replace the whole 'bro' thing with the n-bomb and suddenly people might be making a different type of sense out of what's being inferred by the term, taking various forms of offense, and I don't think I would need t be proven wrong about this very statement and any truth it might hold.

If I'm correct about my definition, then 'Bro science', whoever came up with the term, is an obvious knock to someone's process of reasoning, believing something without proof. I think a lot of us do so. And I'm no religious nut - I always do my best to accept what science proves - but I also know that science will always remain incomplete, leaving large gaps in the known universe in the minds of mankind as the cost of putting things to the test adds parameters that are hard to keep up with, time being one of them.

And so when people knock what science seems to say, you have to remember, amongst all of the master growers that studied botany at top universities and people using state of the art equipment to try and get to the bottom of fact vs fiction, there are people that develop other forms of wisdom and share it, coming from sources that science doesn't always account for. I think some of these old time growers in the PNW and certainly farmers from Morocco, Pakistan and Afghanistan, etc have learned things that would be difficult to prove using modern scientific methods but are likely being put to the test as we speak, and some will eventually end up labeled as 'bro science' when something comes along that works better, and some of it will prove correct.

But bro science then seems a term created by people who claim to hold scientific proof that some form of popular opinion or something accepted as generally true is false. I've noticed in many of these instances there is no proof. Just opinion and conflicts. I know the whole flush thing, its easily misunderstood and there are many beliefs in the cannabis community that are incorrect or outdated but I think there are other things science will never get to the bottom of.... All in all, the more I see this term, Bro seems a nicer ways of saying something is full of shit. In what I've learned, often what I'm being told is bullshit, isn't. You can't bulllshit a bullshitter.

Bro
 
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ComputerSaysNo

Well-Known Member
I think most statements stem from someone believing something to be true and so what's upheld as true is often what's generally accepted by multiple people saying/believing until its proved as false. No? We don't all have the time to test everything out. I think that's what this forum is for... I give props to those correcting bad information but I also think the truth correlates with 'general' popular opinion without needing science proving it.
There are a lot of myths persisting in the Cannabis growing scene that any regular agronomist or horticulturalist would simply laugh at. Yet, in growers' cycles, those things are taken as facts.

This is mainly because Cannabis was illegal for so long, and all the growing and exchanging of information had to be done in secret, within the same amateur clique of people. It was difficult for a grower to approach an actual horticulturalist (e.g. commercial green house grower of food crops) and ask for information. People like Bruce Bugbee could not do research on cannabis sativa, even though they wanted to.

Again, a lot of the "bro science" only exists because of the secrecy of the grower scene. It consists of a lot of pure fantasy that has never taken hold with other types of horticulture, because it is simply not based in experience.

You are right, we don't have the time to test everything out -- which is why it is so important that somebody with the time and resources does the science for us. Now that is increasingly happening.

(BTW another area with a lot of bro science is cooking. So many myths there, even proliferated by three-star chefs, that are 100% untrue.)
 

decrepit digits

Well-Known Member
How is that "bro science" what he said? It is quite obvious.

Since we are interested in the female plants only, we want to observe traits of female plants, not males. We have a good way to make female pollen (spray female plant with STS). There is no reason not to use it.

I fully agree with him.
Sorry I am not seeing the obvious. If it were true then the breeding with only females would have produced better plants than previous male female breeding. This is just not what I see and read has happened. You might only be interested in female plants, but some of us are also interested in observing male plants for whatever reasons. I have a good way to produce pollen (male plant) without introducing a man made spray. One reason would be it is not the natural way, is it considered an organic method? Some bro science real males can be used to eliminate herms in a line, try that with a reversed female. As for the original question I know of no way to increase the probability of females in a regular line, just pop more seeds to get more females.
 

Observe & Report

Well-Known Member
Bro-science comes from the weightlifting forums. My bro takes 40g of super protein after every workout and he is ripped. The opinion of some juiced up jock is more valuable than that of some pencil necked scientist geek. Same shit goes on around here but the deference is to breeders and commercial growers as much your bro who grows fire.

Do you even lift?
 

gwheels

Well-Known Member
I have recently started researching the use of regular seeds, and with that, techniques to get more females vs males. It's really hard to sift through the mountain of bro science to find any solid information. Do environmental factors play that big of a role? OR has the sex already been predetermined? Does the lighting schedule matter the most? Do we have any say at all?

Reply with your techniques and/or thoughts! Thanks
50 50 for life.

:D

and if someone can provide like a 10,000 seed sample with 3 samplings..there may be traction...but otherwise.

I have had 10 out of 10 go female on regs...and 5 of 6 go male..

Roll the dice...and its always ALWAYS better than a fem or an auto...
 
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