Climate in the 21st Century

Will Humankind see the 22nd Century?

  • Not a fucking chance

    Votes: 44 28.0%
  • Maybe. if we get our act together

    Votes: 41 26.1%
  • Yes, we will survive

    Votes: 72 45.9%

  • Total voters
    157

Three Berries

Well-Known Member
Annual U.S. coal-fired electricity generation will increase for the first time since 2014
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Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration, Short-Term Energy Outlook

We expect 22% more U.S. coal-fired generation in 2021 than in 2020, according to our latest Short-Term Energy Outlook (STEO). The U.S. electric power sector has been generating more electricity from coal-fired power plants this year as a result of significantly higher natural gas prices and relatively stable coal prices. This year, 2021, will yield the first year-over-year increase in coal generation in the United States since 2014.

Coal and natural gas have been the two largest sources of electricity generation in the United States. In many areas of the country, these two fuels compete to supply electricity based on their relative costs. U.S. natural gas prices have been more volatile than coal prices, so the cost of natural gas often determines the relative share of generation provided by natural gas and coal.

Because natural gas-fired power plants convert fuel to electricity more efficiently than coal-fired plants, natural gas-fired generation can have an economic advantage even if natural gas prices are slightly higher than coal prices. Between 2015 and 2020, the cost of natural gas delivered to electric generators remained relatively low and stable. This year, however, natural gas prices have been much higher than in recent years. The year-to-date delivered cost of natural gas to U.S. power plants has averaged $4.93 per million British thermal units (Btu), more than double last year’s price.

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Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration, Short-Term Energy Outlook
The overall decline in U.S. electricity demand in 2020 and record-low natural gas prices led coal plants to significantly reduce the percentage of time that they generated power. In 2020, the utilization rate (known as the capacity factor) of U.S. coal-fired generators averaged 40%. Before 2010, coal capacity factors routinely averaged 70% or more. This year’s higher natural gas prices have increased the average coal capacity factor to about 51%, which is almost the 2018 average.

chart 3.jpg
Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration, Short-Term Energy Outlook; Preliminary Monthly Electric Generator Inventory
Although rising natural gas prices have resulted in more U.S. coal-fired generation than last year, this increase in coal generation will most likely not continue. The electric power sector has retired about 30% of its generating capacity at coal plants since 2010, and no new coal-fired capacity has come online in the United States since 2013. In addition, coal stocks at U.S. power plants are relatively low, and production at operating coal mines has not been increasing as rapidly as the recent increase in coal demand. For 2022, we forecast that U.S. coal-fired generation will decline about 5% in response to continuing retirements of generating capacity at coal power plants and slightly lower natural gas prices.

Principal contributor: Tyler Hodge
 
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mooray

Well-Known Member
Propane is what I use. Both are up because we are exporting so much to the EU and Asia.

Do you see how much more renewables have to be built to replace fossil fuels for electrical generation?


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Look how short the timeline is. Solar was basically at zero all the way to 2012 and it doesn't look like you have to go back very far before wind was at zero. I'm glad "other" is going down, that's probably organic material burning.

Assuming constant usage throughout history, many more renewables would have been needed 50 years ago, 20 years ago, and even 5 years ago, just because the technology keep improving so much. The fact that wind and coal are as close as they are, should have piqued your interest.

And I'm sure the technology used to extract energy from coal has improved as well, and will continue to improve, but it's funny how republicans are like, "keep things the same!!! wait...no it's okay to modernize that in the name of keeping things the same...". At some point it's like building and programming a cnc machine just to dial a rotary phone.
 

Three Berries

Well-Known Member
There are three or four windfarms within 20 miles of me. The last one that went in had a very hard time getting the right of ways for the transmission lines. And the huge one in the northern Midwest was still stalled as far as getting across Illinois.

It appears to be dead as the links here are. They are proposing an undergrounds one from Iowa to Illinois and on to the east but no one is interested politically it seems.

So there are a lot of windfarms around me, but good luck increasing that 4 fold.
 

Three Berries

Well-Known Member
Look how short the timeline is. Solar was basically at zero all the way to 2012 and it doesn't look like you have to go back very far before wind was at zero. I'm glad "other" is going down, that's probably organic material burning.

Assuming constant usage throughout history, many more renewables would have been needed 50 years ago, 20 years ago, and even 5 years ago, just because the technology keep improving so much. The fact that wind and coal are as close as they are, should have piqued your interest.

And I'm sure the technology used to extract energy from coal has improved as well, and will continue to improve, but it's funny how republicans are like, "keep things the same!!! wait...no it's okay to modernize that in the name of keeping things the same...". At some point it's like building and programming a cnc machine just to dial a rotary phone.
Solar is another thing they are trying to get going out in the farm lands here. Three years they have been approved locally but none have been built.

Wind and Solar cannot reliably provide 24/7 power. They all need 100% backup.
 

CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
There are three or four windfarms within 20 miles of me. The last one that went in had a very hard time getting the right of ways for the transmission lines. And the huge one in the northern Midwest was still stalled as far as getting across Illinois.

It appears to be dead as the links here are. They are proposing an undergrounds one from Iowa to Illinois and on to the east but no one is interested politically it seems.

So there are a lot of windfarms around me, but good luck increasing that 4 fold.
Holy fuck. Don’t you know they cause cancer?
 

smokinrav

Well-Known Member
Those giant Tesla wall battery packs are very interesting for backup power generation, but the fucking cost!
 

mooray

Well-Known Member
There are three or four windfarms within 20 miles of me. The last one that went in had a very hard time getting the right of ways for the transmission lines. And the huge one in the northern Midwest was still stalled as far as getting across Illinois.

It appears to be dead as the links here are. They are proposing an undergrounds one from Iowa to Illinois and on to the east but no one is interested politically it seems.

So there are a lot of windfarms around me, but good luck increasing that 4 fold.
Okay, but you realize that twenty years ago "you" were saying, "good luck increasing that 100 fold"..?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Last two days have been beautiful in Central Illinois. Sunshine and cool seasonal temps with dry air. Welcomed after 13 days of rain out of 15. But much better than last year where we were going into fall with drought conditions. The farmers should be able to get back into the fields in a day or so.

January is the season for floods. The ground is sometimes frozen but no plants sucking up the water so what doesn't percolate down runs off in to the rivers..
Is "correct side of town of side of the tracks" a common saying in central illinois, boris?
 

CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
Solar is another thing they are trying to get going out in the farm lands here. Three years they have been approved locally but none have been built.

Wind and Solar cannot reliably provide 24/7 power. They all need 100% backup.
No problem. You science deniers will be able to get electricity from the Colorado River for the rest of time.
 

smokinrav

Well-Known Member
Yes, Illinois has more railroad miles than any state besidesTexas. Most towns are bisected, and the poors always live one one side or the other
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
There are three or four windfarms within 20 miles of me. The last one that went in had a very hard time getting the right of ways for the transmission lines. And the huge one in the northern Midwest was still stalled as far as getting across Illinois.

It appears to be dead as the links here are. They are proposing an undergrounds one from Iowa to Illinois and on to the east but no one is interested politically it seems.

So there are a lot of windfarms around me, but good luck increasing that 4 fold.
Take a picture of any illinois landmark
 

smokinrav

Well-Known Member
Dude Illinois is as flat and feature less as Iowa. Nebraska is the worst, but Illinois is boring as hell. Maybe get a pic of his I80 on ramp lol
 

Three Berries

Well-Known Member
Okay, but you realize that twenty years ago "you" were saying, "good luck increasing that 100 fold"..?
No 20 years ago I was wanting to build a windrower source, still consider a 1KWH solar. But that is considerable investment. You just don't understand the scope of the problem in replacing all the fossil fuels. No one wants a field full of windmills or solar panels across the street or the high voltage lines running through their property. And what of plastic, fertilizer, drugs; what will replace that?
 

Three Berries

Well-Known Member
Yes, Illinois has more railroad miles than any state besidesTexas. Most towns are bisected, and the poors always live one one side or the other
Yes, another Democrat strong hold. And what's worse is the Republicans are all RINOs. So we will go down in flames. But not until the federal bailout money runs out.
 

mooray

Well-Known Member
No 20 years ago I was wanting to build a windrower source, still consider a 1KWH solar. But that is considerable investment. You just don't understand the scope of the problem in replacing all the fossil fuels. No one wants a field full of windmills or solar panels across the street or the high voltage lines running through their property. And what of plastic, fertilizer, drugs; what will replace that?
I do understand and I felt the same way many years ago. I'm trying to help you understand that scoffing at wind/solar these days kinda makes a person look stupid, because they've come so far already and they're just getting started.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
No 20 years ago I was wanting to build a windrower source, still consider a 1KWH solar. But that is considerable investment. You just don't understand the scope of the problem in replacing all the fossil fuels. No one wants a field full of windmills or solar panels across the street or the high voltage lines running through their property. And what of plastic, fertilizer, drugs; what will replace that?
No 20 years ago I was wanting to build a windrower source, still consider a 1KWH solar. But that is considerable investment. You just don't understand the scope of the problem in replacing all the fossil fuels. No one wants a field full of windmills or solar panels across the street or the high voltage lines running through their property. And what of plastic, fertilizer, drugs; what will replace that?
No 20 years ago I was wanting to build a windrower source, still consider a 1KWH solar. But that is considerable investment. You just don't understand the scope of the problem in replacing all the fossil fuels. No one wants a field full of windmills or solar panels across the street or the high voltage lines running through their property. And what of plastic, fertilizer, drugs; what will replace that?
Your accent is atrocious foreigner
 

Three Berries

Well-Known Member
I do understand and I felt the same way many years ago. I'm trying to help you understand that scoffing at wind/solar these days kinda makes a person look stupid, because they've come so far already and they're just getting started.
I'm not scoffing at it. But unless there is some huge change or innovation it's not going to happen by 2030 or whatever date they have set up. Illinois passed some stupid 100% renewable energy law and didn't even include the 7 nukes we have now.

Quite frankly I would expect a return to Tesla's patents that have been suppressed for 100 years.
 
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