Tesla New Model Unveil...

[xtsho]

Fuel cell tech might replace natural gas for niche users who are already converted to gas. For the consumer car market, hydrogen fuel cells are simply too inefficient compared to batteries:

Fuel cells: start with 100 Watts and at best, 38 Watts are delivered to the consumer-driver

View attachment 4924706

EV: start with 100 Watts and 80 Watts are delivered to the consumer-driver
View attachment 4924707

Hydrogen cars won’t overtake electric vehicles because they’re hampered by the laws of science

Everyone loves the idea of H2 cars, but they come with a huge disadvantage.

theconversation.com

That article brings up one point of concern. In China they are creating infrastructure to support the electric vehicles. Such as the battery swapping out. There may be more charging stations being set up in the US. They have a couple at the Walgreens a couple blocks from me. The problem is that it takes a long time to recharge the batteries so they really are not that practical as nobody isn't going to want to sit in a Walgreens parking lot for 6+ hours to charge their battery. I think most people have their own charging stations installed at home. But then you're limited on range you can drive.

One of my biggest issues with Tesla is their complete lack of support after the purchase which is well documented. There are very few authorized Tesla service centers and if you do manage to have one close by it can take months to get parts. A simple fender bender could have your car in the shop for a long time waiting on body parts which Tesla apparently doesn't seem to have in any reasonable supply. They are just focused on selling as many cars as fast as they can. Once you take delivery you're on your own. They have a serious lack of customer support and no supply chain for parts or service.

As far as hydrogen technology, yes it's dangerous but with further research and testing many issues can be mitigated making it much safer. It's already the technology they are working with for large trucks due to the increased range as battery technology won't work for long haul driving where you need to charge every few hundred miles.

May 19, 2021 - Daimler Trucks is focusing on hydrogen-powered fuel-cells for the electrification of its vehicles for flexible and demanding long-haul transport. It aims to achieve ranges of up to 1,000 kilometers and more without any stops for refuelling. In late April, the truck manufacturer began to conduct rigorous tests of the first new enhanced prototype of its Mercedes-Benz GenH2 Truck, which was unveiled in 2020. This marks an important milestone on the path to series production.

Start of testing of the new Mercedes-Benz fuel-cell truck prototype | Daimler

In late April, the truck manufacturer began to conduct rigorous tests of the first new enhanced prototype of its Mercedes-Benz GenH2 Truck, which was unveiled in 2020.

www.daimler.com

 

[Fogdog]

That article brings up one point of concern. In China they are creating infrastructure to support the electric vehicles. Such as the battery swapping out. There may be more charging stations being set up in the US. They have a couple at the Walgreens a couple blocks from me. The problem is that it takes a long time to recharge the batteries so they really are not that practical as nobody isn't going to want to sit in a Walgreens parking lot for 6+ hours to charge their battery. I think most people have their own charging stations installed at home. But then you're limited on range you can drive.

One of my biggest issues with Tesla is their complete lack of support after the purchase which is well documented. There are very few authorized Tesla service centers and if you do manage to have one close by it can take months to get parts. A simple fender bender could have your car in the shop for a long time waiting on body parts which Tesla apparently doesn't seem to have in any reasonable supply. They are just focused on selling as many cars as fast as they can. Once you take delivery you're on your own. They have a serious lack of customer support and no supply chain for parts or service.

As far as hydrogen technology, yes it's dangerous but with further research and testing many issues can be mitigated making it much safer. It's already the technology they are working with for large trucks due to the increased range as battery technology won't work for long haul driving where you need to charge every few hundred miles.

May 19, 2021 - Daimler Trucks is focusing on hydrogen-powered fuel-cells for the electrification of its vehicles for flexible and demanding long-haul transport. It aims to achieve ranges of up to 1,000 kilometers and more without any stops for refuelling. In late April, the truck manufacturer began to conduct rigorous tests of the first new enhanced prototype of its Mercedes-Benz GenH2 Truck, which was unveiled in 2020. This marks an important milestone on the path to series production.

Start of testing of the new Mercedes-Benz fuel-cell truck prototype | Daimler

In late April, the truck manufacturer began to conduct rigorous tests of the first new enhanced prototype of its Mercedes-Benz GenH2 Truck, which was unveiled in 2020.

www.daimler.com

Tesla has it's issues. So do all of the available Electric Vehicles IMO. I'm a laggard when it comes to new tech. Agree with you that Tesla is effing-up big time by allowing customer service to lag behind production. Also agree that 6-hour recharge time is a deal breaker for anybody who lives outside of a city. An EV requires special planning ahead if one is going on a longer drive with it. But it makes a very nice commuting vehicle, especially with a charger installed at home for overnight charging.

Regarding safety, both EV and hydrogen fuel cells have issues with fires but so does gasoline. It all seems a wash to me.

Cars that run on Hydrogen fuel cells are really, really expensive. For consumers they they are so rare as to be made of unobtanium. Getting past the difficulty of buying one, the advertised short fill time becomes moot given how few filling stations there are. But then a new invention might come along and change the equation.

There are trade-offs but its all new and rapidly developing tech. Maybe somebody will figure a way around it but until something new is invented, fuel cells have too large of an efficiency cost compared to EV - battery tech,

 

[doublejj]

The New Teslas can charge much faster. Here's is screen shot of a Tesla charging at near 1000 miles per hr at a Tesla Supercharger.

998 miles per hour at 34% battery charge
@TeslaCharging

 

[injinji]

like Hydrogen is something new?......
View attachment 4924689

There was a really good Nova on that a couple months ago. The skin and tie down system was designed to deal with static electricity. But it rained and the wet tow lines and wet skin let a spark loose somewhere. None of that would have mattered though, if they had held off and fixed the H leak.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Safety might be an issue charging EVs too, future fast charging is predicted to be in the 250 amp/hr @100 volts DC, thick steel is welded at a fraction of those power levels. I dunno how safe it would be pumping 25,000 watts into an EV battery in the rain! Just connecting the thing to the charger without the connector contacts welding would be a challenge!

 

[doublejj]

Safety might be an issue charging EVs too, future fast charging is predicted to be in the 250 amp/hr @100 volts DC, thick steel is welded at a fraction of those power levels. I dunno how safe it would be pumping 25,000 watts into an EV battery in the rain! Just connecting the thing to the charger without the connector contacts welding would be a challenge!

^^see my post above^^

 

[Budley Doright]

I’ve been waiting a long time lol.

Ballard's Babies

The daddy of the fuel-cell industry might not be a symbol of commercial success today, but it has spawned dozens of offspring that could make it proud.

www.greentechmedia.com

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

EV development, the supporting infrastructure and standardization is dependent on battery technology and that is rapidly advancing on several fronts, from solid state and graphene lithium ion batteries, to other chemistries using sodium and aluminum. There is a lot of progress and several battery technologies are in the engineering and large scale manufacturing development phases. These new batteries promise fast charging, improved range, lower costs, less thermal management and longer life. All automotive manufactures are converting to EV production and betting heavily on new battery technology. The technology for several of these batteries should be rolled out over the next 5 years to decade. Carbon emission rules will start to bite over the coming decade and EVs have almost reached the point of practicality, but a Green new grid will have to keep up with the extra energy demand.

EV's generally have fewer moving parts than an ICE vehicle, no leakage of oil lubricants hydraulic and brake fluids or antifreeze and of course gasoline! In some designs the electric motors are built into the four wheel hubs and they are the only moving parts on the car. Needless to say far fewer auto mechanics will be required, other than electronics, wheels and motors could be changed out with a couple of bolts and power connectors. Charging stations should be different than gas stations too, people will be spending 15 minutes to a half hour while the car charges and might want to eat. Perhaps McDonalds or other fast food places might want in on the charging business too! A renewed A&W type service, food delivered to the window while the charger works away.

 

[xtsho]

EV development, the supporting infrastructure and standardization is dependent on battery technology and that is rapidly advancing on several fronts, from solid state and graphene lithium ion batteries, to other chemistries using sodium and aluminum. There is a lot of progress and several battery technologies are in the engineering and large scale manufacturing development phases. These new batteries promise fast charging, improved range, lower costs, less thermal management and longer life. All automotive manufactures are converting to EV production and betting heavily on new battery technology. The technology for several of these batteries should be rolled out over the next 5 years to decade. Carbon emission rules will start to bite over the coming decade and EVs have almost reached the point of practicality, but a Green new grid will have to keep up with the extra energy demand.

EV's generally have fewer moving parts than an ICE vehicle, no leakage of oil lubricants hydraulic and brake fluids or antifreeze and of course gasoline! In some designs the electric motors are built into the four wheel hubs and they are the only moving parts on the car. Needless to say far fewer auto mechanics will be required, other than electronics, wheels and motors could be changed out with a couple of bolts and power connectors. Charging stations should be different than gas stations too, people will be spending 15 minutes to a half hour while the car charges and might want to eat. Perhaps McDonalds or other fast food places might want in on the charging business too! A renewed A&W type service, food delivered to the window while the charger works away.

Why did you have to bring up A&W? I haven't had dinner yet. I remember when I was a kid and we'd go there. I always got the Teen Burger, fries, and a root beer. I wouldn't eat at one today though. They're nothing like they used to be. I sure wish you could get a decent burger these days without spending $10 or more. I refuse to eat that fast food garbage from a drive through window so I grind my own beef and make them at home. I can't wait for the home grown tomatoes. Not those crunchy picked green things they sell at the grocery store and ripen up/turn red with ethylene gas. I refuse to eat those things.

Damn. Now I want a hamburger. But I don't have any buns and I've been drinking a little and am not going to the store. The lady is up in Seattle so no hamburger for me.

 

[Budley Doright]

Why did you have to bring up A&W? I haven't had dinner yet. I remember when I was a kid and we'd go there. I always got the Teen Burger, fries, and a root beer. I wouldn't eat at one today though. They're nothing like they used to be. I sure wish you could get a decent burger these days without spending $10 or more. I refuse to eat that fast food garbage from a drive through window so I grind my own beef and make them at home. I can't wait for the home grown tomatoes. Not those crunchy picked green things they sell at the grocery store and ripen up/turn red with ethylene gas. I refuse to eat those things.

Damn. Now I want a hamburger. But I don't have any buns and I've been drinking a little and am not going to the store. The lady is up in Seattle so no hamburger for me.

I went to AW today for the first time in a year. Ya I don’t feel great, fast food makes me feel terrible and I used to eat it a lot before
Covid .
I wonder if a rub and tug would work? Free charge for $75 an hour for other services

 

[xtsho]

I went to AW today for the first time in a year. Ya I don’t feel great, fast food makes me feel terrible and I used to eat it a lot before
Covid .
I wonder if a rub and tug would work? Free charge for $75 an hour for other services

As a teenager and into my early 20's I worked at the big 3. McDonalds, Burger King, and Wendy's. I was a Burger King Assistant Manager for a couple years. I ate my share of fast food. But for the last 20 years I can count the times i've eaten it on both hands. What the hell are they doing to the meat? Last time I ate was a few years back, we were on the road, I was starving, drive thru was the only option. Dam McDonalds made me feel ill. Then it was a few days before that sickening taste was gone from my mouth. And it seemed like some smell was seeping out of my skin. It was gross. I'll never eat that crap again. Now I know why some people have stinky body odor. It's from eating crap food.

 

[OldMedUser]

As a teenager and into my early 20's I worked at the big 3. McDonalds, Burger King, and Wendy's. I was a Burger King Assistant Manager for a couple years. I ate my share of fast food. But for the last 20 years I can count the times i've eaten it on both hands. What the hell are they doing to the meat? Last time I ate was a few years back, we were on the road, I was starving, drive thru was the only option. Dam McDonalds made me feel ill. Then it was a few days before that sickening taste was gone from my mouth. And it seemed like some smell was seeping out of my skin. It was gross. I'll never eat that crap again. Now I know why some people have stinky body odor. It's from eating crap food.

I have not eaten a damn thing from Mickie Ds in 40 f'n years. I read an article about them in Playboy, (only read it for the good writing ), in the 70s and swore off it or good then and have never backslid on that promise. I brainwashed my boys not to eat that crap too but they wanted those damn hockey cards so would let them get a hot apple pie or something so they could get the cards and play in the playground for a while then go down the road to a real restaurant for a meal. My oldest boy is 40 now so it's been a long time.

They do have the best coffee now in Canada and I have got a couple of those. Same coffee Tim Hortens used to have and I loved that. First Timmies got sold to Wendys and they got rid of the in house bakeries in favour of mass produced crap that was premade then frozen and shipped to all the Tims then they trow it in the oven/microwave to cook it up and fuck it's garbage. Then it was sold to some brazilian outfit and when the coffee contract came up for renewal took a pass for some cheap-ass Brazilian coffee. Guess who snatched up the contract. You got it. The food still sucks but the coffee is worth walking into that stink to get and the washrooms are always clean. Well they are until I'm done with it.

We got the first Canadian McDs in Richmond, BC when I was about 12 and had a paper route delivering the Vancouver Sun around my neighbourhood. 100 papers on Saturdays so put a lot of miles on my bike. No apartments and everybody had at least an acre. When they opened they put a coupon in the local Richmond rag for a free burger, fries and coke/soft drink and I swiped two bundles of those rags. Only 10 pages long if that and 100 papers/bundle. 5 mile ride but me and my friends pigged out for 2 weeks on those coupons. Great, cheap munchies a couple years later when we got into pot. A&W was a lot closer so went there a lot too on 3rd by the bowling alley. McDs was also on 3rd but just south of downtown Richmond.

Those were the days.

 

[TacoMac]

This is the real future of clean energy vehicles. Hydrogen fuel cells

Do you have any idea how much energy it takes to harvest hydrogen?

That idea is dead before it gets off the ground.

It is still the best solution for rocket engines, but that's about it.

 

[Budley Doright]

Well that’s weird, professor taco agrees with Musk. Yet a 1000 auto execs (survey) feel it is a technology worth, and are pursuing. With Taco’s recommendation I’ll keep my Ballard stocks for a bit longer lol.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Clean cheap hydrogen and other biofuels might not be that far off. Photosynthesis can not only capture energy from sunlight, it can store it chemically as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Artificial Photosynthesis Promises Clean, Sustainable Source of Energy (scitechdaily.com)

Artificial Photosynthesis Promises Clean, Sustainable Source of Energy

Humans can do lots of things that plants can’t do. We can walk around, we can talk, we can hear and see and touch. But plants have one major advantage over humans: They can make energy directly from the sun.

That process of turning sunlight directly into usable energy – called photosynthesis – may soon be a feat humans are able to mimic to harness the sun’s energy for clean, storable, efficient fuel. If so, it could open a whole new frontier of clean energy. Enough energy hits the earth in the form of sunlight in one hour to meet all human civilization’s energy needs for an entire year.

Yulia Puskhar, a biophysicist and professor of physics in Purdue’s College of Science, may have a way to harness that energy by mimicking plants.

Wind power and solar power, harnessed by photovoltaic cells, are the two major forms of clean energy available. Adding a third — synthetic photosynthesis — would dramatically change the renewable energy landscape. The ability to store the energy easily, without requiring bulky batteries, would dramatically improve humans’ ability to power society cleanly and efficiently.

Both wind turbines and photovoltaics have downside in terms of environmental effects and complicating factors. Pushkar hopes that artificial photosynthesis might be able to bypass those pitfalls.

“We and other researchers around the world are working incredibly hard to try to come up with accessible energy,” Pushkar said. “Energy that is clean and sustainable that we can create with nontoxic, easily available elements. Our artificial photosynthesis is the way forward.”

Photosynthesis is a complex dance of processes whereby plants convert the sun’s radiance and water molecules into usable energy in the form of glucose. To do this, they use a pigment, usually the famous chlorophyll, as well as proteins, enzymes and metals.

The closest process to artificial photosynthesis humans have today is photovoltaic technology, where a solar cell converts the sun’s energy into electricity. That process is famously inefficient, able to capture only about 20% of the sun’s energy. Photosynthesis, on the other hand, is radically more efficient; it is capable of storing 60% of the sun’s energy as chemical energy in associated biomolecules.

The efficiency of simple photovoltaic cells – solar panels – is limited by semiconductors’ ability to absorb light energy and by the cell’s ability to produce power. That limit is something scientists could surpass with synthetic photosynthesis.

“With artificial photosynthesis, there are not fundamental physical limitations,” Pushkar said. “You can very easily imagine a system that is 60% efficient because we already have a precedent in natural photosynthesis. And if we get very ambitious, we could even envision a system of up to 80% efficiency.

“Photosynthesis is massively efficient when it comes to splitting water, a first step of artificial photosynthesis. Photosystems II proteins in plants do this a thousand times a second. Blink, and it’s done.”

Pushkar’s group is mimicking the process by building her own artificial leaf analog that collects light and splits water molecules to generate hydrogen. Hydrogen can be used as a fuel by itself via fuel cells or be added to other fuels such as natural gas, or built into fuel cells to power everything from vehicles to houses to small electronic devices, laboratories and hospitals. Her most recent discovery, an insight into the way water molecules split during photosynthesis, was recently published in the journal Chem Catalysis: Cell Press.

Scientists in Pushkar’s lab experiment with natural photosystem II proteins and synthetic catalysts combinations in attempts to understand what works best – and why. She also puts a priority on using compounds and chemicals that are readily abundant on Earth, easily accessible and nontoxic to the planet.

Progress in artificial photosynthesis is complicated, though, by the fact that photosynthesis is so multifaceted, a fact bemoaned by biochemistry students everywhere.

“The reaction is very complex,” Pushkar said. “The chemistry of splitting water molecules is extremely intricate and difficult.”

Scientists have been working on artificial photosynthesis since the 1970s. That’s a long time, but not when you remember that photosynthesis took millions of years to evolve. Not only that, but scientists believe that, unlike flight, communication or intelligence, photosynthesis has evolved only once – about 3 billion years ago, only about 1.5 billion years into Earth’s existence.

Pushkar posits that within the next 10-15 years, enough progress will have been made that commercial artificial photosynthesis systems may begin to come online. Her research is funded by the National Science Foundation.

 

[xtsho]

1 in 5 electric vehicle owners in California switched back to gas because charging their cars is a hassle, research shows

1 in 5 electric vehicle owners in California switched back to gas because charging their cars is a hassle, research shows

 

[mooray]

Anyone that can afford a new electric car can certainly afford a little $3000 Civic on backup.

And pretty much everyone has 240v in their house. It's silly to buy an electric as a main vehicle and then limit yourself to a 120v 15/20a breaker that's likely shared with other appliances and reduced further.

 

[Fogdog]

1 in 5 electric vehicle owners in California switched back to gas because charging their cars is a hassle, research shows

1 in 5 electric vehicle owners in California switched back to gas because charging their cars is a hassle, research shows

That's impressive. 80% stick with EV after their first purchase.

 

[doublejj]

That's impressive. 80% stick with EV after their first purchase.

you don't find many used Teslas for sale.....90% of Tesla buyers are moving from ICE vehicle to EV......I see a trend

 

[xtsho]

They're doing some interesting stuff in China to make charging the batteries not an issue. Swap stations. It seems like it would make EV more practical and eliminate the long charging requirements. Just pull into a swap station and drive away in 10 minutes with a fully charged battery. That's the type of infrastructure that would really make it practical for many more people to make the switch to EV. It's too bad Tesla is more focused on self driving technology rather than infrastructure to support the EV's they sell.

Nio has now done two million electric car battery swaps

Chinese EV maker Nio completes two millionth battery swap, powering almost 400 million kilometres of emissions-free driving from its battery swap stations.

thedriven.io

Former Tesla engineers:

Emerging from “stealth mode” after seven years research and development, the start-up says that the battery swap stations would require no special infrastructure as they could be dropped in any carpark.

With $70 million funding under its belt, Ample is collaborating with Uber and says it is also working with “some of the world’s largest automakers to integrate modular battery design into their electric cars,” although it did not name which ones.

Ample’s mission to provide an alternative to charging infrastructure is based around the notion that the difficult paradigm shift away from refuelling is slowing down electric car adoption, and that charging infrastructure is too expensive to profit from without government assistance.

Start-up created by Tesla, Google alumni wants to swap EV batteries in 10 minutes

Battery start-up Ample wants to deploy network of EV battery swap stations, but would it work?

thedriven.io