Bugs? Humidity? Ph? I’m LOST.

[Hazmatick]

Hello, I made a post here just a couple days ago on this, and i thought I had maybe found a fix but I’m not noticing any difference right now.
my plants are showing EXTREMELY weird growth that I and the others that have tried to help have never seen. I’m using promix medium at 5.8 ph, Athena and power si nutrients at ~600 ppm, and just one 315 watt cmh for veg, but as of the last week I’ve only been feeding clean ro water. The new growth is extremely stunted, and my leaves are tacoing. And specifically at night the tops are sticking straight up at the lights.
I was told this was my low humidity as my room as around 30-35% when I should be at 65-70 for the stage my plants are in. I don’t think it’s a burn of some sort because there’s no burnt tips, no yellowing really, anything that would show it’s a sign of ph issue. Can anyone please point me in the right direction? I typically know what I’m doing here, but I’m just totally lost with this one and theydon’t seem to be getting better. I added a humidifier today and the room is at a comfortable 78 degrees 65% rh. Do they just need time to recover or what is the issue here? If your suggestions show results I’m literally willing to throw you some cash. These are expensive genetics and I’ve never ever had plants look like this before... thank you guys!!

 

[lochem]

I’m no expert, but your new growth looks like it’s curling a bit while the more developed , larger and older fan leaves look pretty healthy, at least what can be seen from the pics.
it’s a bit hard to tell with the purple tint coming from what I’m assuming is your light but I can’t tell.

with humidity, “low” is not a way to describe a potential RH issue without considering temperature as well. VPD (vapor pressure deficit) is also important if not just as important/ that’s the relationship between the temperature and RH and how your plant can respond to that climate.

I’m mostly curious about why you have been feeding it only “clean RO water”. RO water has nothing to really offer the plants and you have been feeding them lots of nutrients until then so you actually might put them into shock when you think there’s a nutrient problem and stop feeding them nutrients.... it’s not always a good thing to “flush” when plants act a bit strange unless you are certain there’s an issue with a specific feeding habit.
Just want to finish by saying I recently had a white widow from seed that was showing very similar behaviour - praying leaves, taco/curling on new growth, and I was freaking out, and it is turning out just fine. Leaves can sometimes do that if the light is a bit too close or if it’s too warm and they aren’t well supported to withstand the temperature and/or light intensity.

 

[Hazmatick]

I’m no expert, but your new growth looks like it’s curling a bit while the more developed , larger and older fan leaves look pretty healthy, at least what can be seen from the pics.
it’s a bit hard to tell with the purple tint coming from what I’m assuming is your light but I can’t tell.

with humidity, “low” is not a way to describe a potential RH issue without considering temperature as well. VPD (vapor pressure deficit) is also important if not just as important/ that’s the relationship between the temperature and RH and how your plant can respond to that climate.

I’m mostly curious about why you have been feeding it only “clean RO water”. RO water has nothing to really offer the plants and you have been feeding them lots of nutrients until then so you actually might put them into shock when you think there’s a nutrient problem and stop feeding them nutrients.... it’s not always a good thing to “flush” when plants act a bit strange unless you are certain there’s an issue with a specific feeding habit.
Just want to finish by saying I recently had a white widow from seed that was showing very similar behaviour - praying leaves, taco/curling on new growth, and I was freaking out, and it is turning out just fine. Leaves can sometimes do that if the light is a bit too close or if it’s too warm and they aren’t well supported to withstand the temperature and/or light intensity.

thank you for your input. My vpd was in the danger zone previously. ~80 room temp, 74 leaf temp. Room should have been around 65-70% rh but it’s been at 30-35 for the last 3 weeks until my humidifier got here. Not from Oklahoma so not used to these dry ass winters. And I also believe what you mentioned about shock due to lack of nutrients might be at play as well. I’m thinking about hitting them with half dose nutes next water and seeing how they react. I regularly spray Athena IPM as well, so I’m not sure bugs would be at play either. It’s confusing for sure and the humidity and lack of nutrients is all I have left to try and fix. Thank you !

 

[Bukvičák]

I am not an expert too. Looks like they perform very well before in your great environment. This does not look like light, temp, humidity or pH issue. Its more like root problems to my eye but I am just a noob. Did you check the soil for bugs? Maybe the roots are eaten by sth...

 

[mistergrafik]

Raise ur PH. 6 / 6.2

promix what? HP?

if the leaves are pointing up at night ur temp swing may be not normal. Do you have lights off in the day?

 

[mistergrafik]

If ur ‘night’ temp is warmer than ur ‘day’ temp I suggest changing that firstly & then raiding the ph. Good luck bruddeh

 

[Hazmatick]

promix bx. and my light cycle is 8am-2am, and the temps stay around the same, but dip maybe 5-7 degrees when the lights are off. athena suggests a 5.8 ph, but i will adjust and see if i notice a change. thank you.

 

[mistergrafik]

promix bx. and my light cycle is 8am-2am, and the temps stay around the same, but dip maybe 5-7 degrees when the lights are off. athena suggests a 5.8 ph, but i will adjust and see if i notice a change. thank you.

Surely but ur medium tends to get acidic

peace!

 

[Bukvičák]

Surely but ur medium tends to get acidic

peace!

They come in bag like 5,3-5,5 here in EU

 

[lochem]

thank you for your input. My vpd was in the danger zone previously. ~80 room temp, 74 leaf temp. Room should have been around 65-70% rh but it’s been at 30-35 for the last 3 weeks until my humidifier got here. Not from Oklahoma so not used to these dry ass winters. And I also believe what you mentioned about shock due to lack of nutrients might be at play as well. I’m thinking about hitting them with half dose nutes next water and seeing how they react. I regularly spray Athena IPM as well, so I’m not sure bugs would be at play either. It’s confusing for sure and the humidity and lack of nutrients is all I have left to try and fix. Thank you !

I also was having VPD issues when my new growth in the white widow was doing that.
high temps and not high enough RH. The new humidifier I got has helped a lot because it also chills down the air a bit.
They will bounce back- if they have developed until now with your care, they appear to have a strong chance.
I definitely would get the nutrients back in there And yes, half dose, don’t shock them again by going from zero to 100....
Regarding pH: i don’t have any experience with your medium, but an easy way to check is to measure your pH going in and out (runoff).
some say the runoff pH “doesn’t tell you much” but personally I can tell you it was a key piece of information for me when I checked my runoff and it was 7.9 (in coco) and then I realised what my problems were.
my nute res pH was rising every day and I don’t recirculate back to the res (I run DTW).
I went back to manual feeds with pH correction before every feed and I also reduced the feed frequency and my girls are bouncing back nicely.

what’s your tent setup like? Is your medium soil or coco?
Do you always use RO water?

 

[Hazmatick]

I also was having VPD issues when my new growth in the white widow was doing that.
high temps and not high enough RH. The new humidifier I got has helped a lot because it also chills down the air a bit.
They will bounce back- if they have developed until now with your care, they appear to have a strong chance.
I definitely would get the nutrients back in there And yes, half dose, don’t shock them again by going from zero to 100....
Regarding pH: i don’t have any experience with your medium, but an easy way to check is to measure your pH going in and out (runoff).
some say the runoff pH “doesn’t tell you much” but personally I can tell you it was a key piece of information for me when I checked my runoff and it was 7.9 (in coco) and then I realised what my problems were.
my nute res pH was rising every day and I don’t recirculate back to the res (I run DTW).
I went back to manual feeds with pH correction before every feed and I also reduced the feed frequency and my girls are bouncing back nicely.

what’s your tent setup like? Is your medium soil or coco?
Do you always use RO water?

It’s a “soilless” medium mostly of peat moss. I’m running an 8x4 tent for veg, 315 watt cmh (have 3 only using one) plenty of ventilation, central air and a standalone unit in the room. I thought it was maybe just one strain being weird but all of them are showing similar signs of growth.

 

[mistergrafik]

They come in bag like 5,3-5,5 here in EU

And after a while that may drip a bit lower.. could be wrong tho. Hope OP figures it

I also was having VPD issues when my new growth in the white widow was doing that.
high temps and not high enough RH. The new humidifier I got has helped a lot because it also chills down the air a bit.
They will bounce back- if they have developed until now with your care, they appear to have a strong chance.
I definitely would get the nutrients back in there And yes, half dose, don’t shock them again by going from zero to 100....
Regarding pH: i don’t have any experience with your medium, but an easy way to check is to measure your pH going in and out (runoff).
some say the runoff pH “doesn’t tell you much” but personally I can tell you it was a key piece of information for me when I checked my runoff and it was 7.9 (in coco) and then I realised what my problems were.
my nute res pH was rising every day and I don’t recirculate back to the res (I run DTW).
I went back to manual feeds with pH correction before every feed and I also reduced the feed frequency and my girls are bouncing back nicely.

what’s your tent setup like? Is your medium soil or coco?
Do you always use RO water?

Everything this guy said ^ ur in good hands idk how I missed the first post. Too many spliffs. Note He is in promix bx which is peat

 

[lochem]

It’s a “soilless” medium mostly of peat moss. I’m running an 8x4 tent for veg, 315 watt cmh (have 3 only using one) plenty of ventilation, central air and a standalone unit in the room. I thought it was maybe just one strain being weird but all of them are showing similar signs of growth.

The best part of your situation in my opinion is that it’s happening to all of the plants so you know it’s environmental.

is your Promix stuff anything like coco? Sorry I’ve never used peat. I’ve heard they are comparable. then I can tell you exactly what I did just last week in my situation which by the way is so similar just looking at your photos.

you mentioned you have “stunted growth”; when did this start? Before or after you started watering without any nutrients?

did you do anything to the plants just before you started noticing symptoms? transplanting? topping? Defoliation? Training?

how fast was the noticeable change? Did it occur overnight or was it gradual? And what did you do when you first started seeing the slowdown?

are you noticing any other symptoms that appear “strange” other than the praying leaves, curling up, and slow growth?

 

[Hazmatick]

The best part of your situation in my opinion is that it’s happening to all of the plants so you know it’s environmental.

is your Promix stuff anything like coco? Sorry I’ve never used peat. I’ve heard they are comparable. then I can tell you exactly what I did just last week in my situation which by the way is so similar just looking at your photos.

you mentioned you have “stunted growth”; when did this start? Before or after you started watering without any nutrients?

did you do anything to the plants just before you started noticing symptoms? transplanting? topping? Defoliation? Training?

how fast was the noticeable change? Did it occur overnight or was it gradual? And what did you do when you first started seeing the slowdown?

are you noticing any other symptoms that appear “strange” other than the praying leaves, curling up, and slow growth?

I’m not too sure if promix is similar to coco honestly as I haven’t used coco before. The change Happened pretty quick, within 10 days.
I noticed slightly weird growth, which I had thought was maybe a nutrient burn of some sort, so that’s when I started feeding clean water. Only got worse from there really. And no, no recent training and I tend to not de foliate much at all during veg. The weird and slow growth seems to be the only out of the ordinary. Roots look pretty good still, shouldn’t be light / heat stress since it never gets above 80 really. Not noticing any bugs other than your odd small fly or two, but I’m also spraying preventative regularly. I’m going to slowly give them nutrients again next water, and never skip a feeding as I would sometimes skip adding nutrients and just feed water and my enzyme product to help stop any salt buildups. I think I will just go nutrients every time in smaller doses. And with my new humidifier that covers the only other thing I can think of that would be wrong with it. Thank you for the help and taking time to reply to me.

 

[mistergrafik]

Just gonna throw it out there again. Raise ur ph a tad. And stop switching it up so much they look ok. Water between is ok. Ur new temps and rh are gold

 

[lochem]

I’m not too sure if promix is similar to coco honestly as I haven’t used coco before. The change Happened pretty quick, within 10 days.
I noticed slightly weird growth, which I had thought was maybe a nutrient burn of some sort, so that’s when I started feeding clean water. Only got worse from there really. And no, no recent training and I tend to not de foliate much at all during veg. The weird and slow growth seems to be the only out of the ordinary. Roots look pretty good still, shouldn’t be light / heat stress since it never gets above 80 really. Not noticing any bugs other than your odd small fly or two, but I’m also spraying preventative regularly. I’m going to slowly give them nutrients again next water, and never skip a feeding as I would sometimes skip adding nutrients and just feed water and my enzyme product to help stop any salt buildups. I think I will just go nutrients every time in smaller doses. And with my new humidifier that covers the only other thing I can think of that would be wrong with it. Thank you for the help and taking time to reply to me.

No problem at all this is why the forum exists.
i think you are on the right path to bounce back.
i would just make a couple more comments....
If the medium is “soilless” and is comparable therefore to coco coir, you will probably see better results with including nutrients in every feed just like you said.
you didn’t do anything like defoliation etc so it sounds like the feeding plan with and without nutrients might be big factor and then BOOM a week with nothing....
Checking your EC on the way in and out while you are trying to correct the feeding imbalance will help. I try not to go up or down by more than +/- 0.2-0.3 microsiemens per feed when I’m in a correction period and I try my best to feed at the same time every day and only once per day. This has helped me a lot in the past few weeks going through some very similar issues.
Good luck GROW STRONG

 

[A e o n]

Dont feed with water in hydro, flush with water then resume regular feeding immediately after. Continue with water only stalls them, just went through that; no food no grow! Check input EC vs output EC. They look pretty healthy, dont starve em. Im assuming you thoroughly inspected for insects

 

[myke]

Ok so the top leaves are tacoing most likely light burn as the lower leaves are fine.
russet mites will do that and new growth will twist. Don’t see any of that
Promix is indeed a soiless medium. By the looks of the big leaves I don’t see any tip burn. Good job!! Your doing something right. As the plant grows it needs more food so at this point you can feed every watering keep it low like you have been.
humidity is nice to have ideally 80 f 50 Rh but not everyone can achieve that. There’s a lot of good growers here that never really far past 35%rh so no big deal. I’d rather have 35% then65%. Mold you know.
pH in promix likes a little higher then coco so 6.3-6.6 ish is good.
hope this helps.

 

[myke]

Ill also add, a little runoff is good each time you feed.But dont let the pots sit in it.Just helps remove the old nutes/salts.

 

[Rurumo]

At least your leaves are just tacoing, when they start chalupa'ing, forget about it!