How do you cook your living soil/super-soil

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buenochair

Member
Looking to process recipe like this :

Sphagnum peat moss
Volcanic Pumice
Earth Worm Castings (home depot organic)
DTE Bio-live
DTE Kelp Meal
DTE Bat guano
Gypsum pellets and oyster shells to be crushed together.
nematodes
diatomaceous earth
mycorrhizal dust
....Black kow composted manure

Lots of questions. I'm seeing compost as my main issue, I bought Black kow manure which i'm not too sure about.. Already started my worm bin composting but i know that takes a few months right? Should i order some of that aged forest humus? I'm trying to move to organic living soil. Maybe i'm looking in the wrong place but I've been going through the ROLS thread, for a few different takes on this super soil cooking process, and i think i'm still missing some key points.

Is cooking soil necessary/possible without Grokashi? or worth it?

Honestly I'm still grasping the concept in general, so pardon my ignorance. If i don't have grokashi and all this sub irrigation stuff set up (just need time next grow will be) are the weeks of cooking for "live" soil necessary in my case? maybe for the micro-organisms or mycorrhizals?
 
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$licc Ricc

$licc Ricc

Active Member
Yes, you do still need to cook most organic living soils for 4 to 6 weeks. Place 1/3 of the cooked soil at the bottom of the container then fill the rest in with avg potting mix. As the plants grow into the new pot they will start to feed and grow into the slow releasing fertilizers. Dte uses alot of water soluble nutrients which is good as they release when activated and the rest will absorb as the plant gets to feeding. I love this brand and also natures pride. These 2 have never failed me and I avg 1.6 to 1.9gpw indoors using only r.o. pH water at 22.5c.
Super soils are hot soils meaning they are concentrated doses of fertilizer which need to leech into the medium and activate with takes time, moisture, and heat. For a matured plant this could potentially be ok to just pot your plants in without cooking depending on the amounts of ingredients you used per cu ft of soil. I have made seedling/rooted clone soils before but only after I know what kind of feeders they are. Remember to always test the soil at the end of every week, turn it and re moisten, then recover it.
Be careful on the nematodes you're getting as some can be harmful. I tend to use a kid pool to mix my soil, I'll staple in fly paper to the inside of the pool after I mix, after that I spread a tarp over it and throw a few bricks to seal it in as best as I can. So if bugs/pests do occur they cannot get out and ultimately die on the paper and not in your soil. Hope this helps.
I've been using living organic soil all my life. If you need any help and I can't answer your questions check out subcools recipe (which is essentially what your using) and check out what others have done to remedy issues in their gardens.
Good luck brother I hope this helps.
 
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B

buenochair

Member
Wow thanks for the extensive reply, lots of reading to do. (note to self): it seems when people say cook they generally mean let sit for 4 weeks, whether or not using kashi/em1 etc. think im starting to get it. couple days ago mixed those ingredients eyeballing some ratios found on the rols thread, kinda figured that rotton shit needed some process im unaware of, or it should be thrown out. In the meantime i got ff original potting mix to veg. I know it's in a thread here somewhere, i've been kind of worried about how to handle the bad organisms, or mold in the living soil, i heard the micro-organisms sort of fight it out during the cooking?

Gonna ditch the black kow waiting on bu.

Also bought unsulphured blackstrap mollases without a clue how to use it.

i wanna make a sip and learn to grow with straight water like you Slick Rick lol
 
Greenthumbs256

Greenthumbs256

Well-Known Member

GREEN'S PROBIOTIC METHOD

Man, you should Google crimson trace, it's a grip with a laser light, I'm thinking about grabbing it for the wife. She may actually love it, I just wont tell her what it cost... lol Don't worry about the laser except for fun and making it look cool. Most gun fights are at about six foot and not...
rollitup.org
 
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buenochair

Member
Awesome! will keep following @Greenthumbs256 learning loads from you. I'm actually trying to work my way up to sips. Just starting to bottom feed to get familiarized.
So while waiting on my em1/kashi was thinking of starting separate soil batch and try canns advice (way back in 2013 1st page of rols thread...) i think he said just .25% gallon molasses or ACT before leaving soil 4 weeks. Considering it because i have the blackstrap now, but if that idea is outdated or something lmk guys, i searched around and think that might be the only time i've seen molasses alone recommended for cook.

Side note, getting neem because I've only heard good things, think i'm gonna leave out guano generally.
 
Greenthumbs256

Greenthumbs256

Well-Known Member
buenochair said:
Awesome! will keep following @Greenthumbs256 learning loads from you. I'm actually trying to work my way up to sips. Just starting to bottom feed to get familiarized.
So while waiting on my em1/kashi was thinking of starting separate soil batch and try canns advice (way back in 2013 1st page of rols thread...) i think he said just .25% gallon molasses or ACT before leaving soil 4 weeks. Considering it because i have the blackstrap now, but if that idea is outdated or something lmk guys, i searched around and think that might be the only time i've seen molasses alone recommended for cook.

Side note, getting neem because I've only heard good things, think i'm gonna leave out guano generally.
Click to expand...
Huhhh????
 
Greenthumbs256

Greenthumbs256

Well-Known Member
If you meant expanding the em1, its 3/4 cup em1, 3/4 cup molasses, and it get fermented until it rest at a 3.5-3.6 ph for atleast a week. Give or take about 4 weeks, but it varies! You cant go by time!!!!!
 
B

buenochair

Member
My bad, I'm waiting on kashi/em1 in the mail not waiting on fermentation.
thanks for the formula man, I plan on expanding once it's here. Already got a moonshine jug anyway so I better make use of it, just need that fancy cap lol. I've got a lot to learn but eventually I wanna try to make my own bokashi and possibly my own LABS later. First I wanna try gro kashi and this other brand "SCD Probiotics All Seasons Bokashi " (trying this first because it's cheaper)

I guess my question was if anyone besides cann had heard of just dumping .25%/gallon (or any amount) mollasses before allowing the soil to "cook". For a fabric grow bag, no sip yet.

Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

After several years and countless dollars wasted on chemical nutes and never recycling my soil I have learned the true way of gardening thanks to a great thread on ICMag. ALL CREDIT TO: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=241964 Living organic soil from start through recycling. Special...
www.rollitup.org

1st page third post from bottom is the recipe, thought that was essentially what people are calling the "coots method" The method here doesn't involve sips or em1/kashi. I'm probably just confused reading +7 year old info and this field seems to be changing quickly.
 
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L

loco41

Well-Known Member
buenochair said:
I'm noticing people mention the anti-microbrial properties of neem.
"anti bacterial/fungal properties, and may inhibit bio activity."
https://www.rollitup.org/t/how-should-i-use-neem-seed-meal-in-conjunction-with-other-fertilizers.953944/post-13924437

Does anyone else think neem works against the probiotic method?
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I think you are on the right track my friend. Sounds like you're gathering a lot of good info. I read through, and still do, read through as much info as my little brain can take. Then delve back in again for some more. I just used some bu compost on my last mix I made up since I found some at a local gardening shop one day. It seems like some nice quality stuff and I'm sure it's better quality then the black-kow (never used it, just assuming). Compost is the last thing I would cheap out on when building a soil if it is feasible to acquire a better quality. Also, I just use my soil for all phases of growth and don't layer it at all, from solo cups to final pots the same mix.

I find that neem meal is a great microbial food, so would assume it plays well with a "probiotic" method. I observe faster mycellium growth on the neem as opposed to say kelp/alfalfa when I sprinkle some on some resting soil from time to time. This is all observational on my part, but I will continue using neem in all my mixes from here out and think my microherd is doing just fine with it there. Worms love it too, read somewhere that it possibly helps with reproduction in some way i think.

Take care though and best of luck on everything moving forward.
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
For what it may be worth. Here in MI. I use broken down White Oak bark with active fungus for my starter. I mix about 4 cups in a thirty gallon container, water and wait a week. Complete web of fungus. mix in and use straight. Just my natural environment helping out. Organics.008.jpg
 
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buenochair

Member
Thanks guys! Perfect if worms and mycelium like it, I've heard pests don't, sounds good especially since I'm indoors. My hastily put together worm bin could use some reproduction, I think the other day I dehydrated the poor guys and killed most....
 
L

loco41

Well-Known Member
buenochair said:
Thanks guys! Perfect if worms and mycelium like it, I've heard pests don't, sounds good especially since I'm indoors. My hastily put together worm bin could use some reproduction, I think the other day I dehydrated the poor guys and killed most....
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there are way smarter/more experienced people than me, but also try some oats from time to time. I think it's the protein that is said to help with the reproduction. I don't do anything to a set schedule with any endeavors I have going, but I do something like 2 veggie scrap feeds then one oat/amendment feed. Honestly though, I'm sure if you just have a suitable environment and feed a variety of inputs, the worms will most likely regulate themselves to fit.
 
B

buenochair

Member
loco41 said:
there are way smarter/more experienced people than me, but also try some oats from time to time. I think it's the protein that is said to help with the reproduction. I don't do anything to a set schedule with any endeavors I have going, but I do something like 2 veggie scrap feeds then one oat/amendment feed. Honestly though, I'm sure if you just have a suitable environment and feed a variety of inputs, the worms will most likely regulate themselves to fit.
Click to expand...
Will try that, hell I'm inexperienced with worms/compost. Thought i dehydrated them like 2 days ago, but now saw blue/white and some green mold today almost flipped shit. Doesn't smell but up until now had them indoors for convenience but not anymore.. It's generally hot in my environment so they might have to struggle unfortunately. Actually if anyones listening stupid qustion for ya: Do red wigglers like em1? I have em1 now just started expanding it.
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
buenochair said:
@MICHI-CAN , do you harvest the bark from your area? That's awesome the results speak for themselves. Did you come up with that method? Indigenous fungi for outdoor growing has to be crucial, reminds me of Paul Stamets' work
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Yes. Have oaks everywhere. Tornadoe gave me an ample supply for years to come. Just pull dry bark off deadfall or cut seasononed wood. Break into hand sized pieces and place in A damp shaded spot in Your yard. A month or two and you have live active culture. Just lift the large pieces and scoop up the decaying bits under It.
 
B

buenochair

Member
Here for help again, more living soil questions, first anybody have good recommendation for a mychorizal source? I'm replacing biolive, previously relying on mychorizals that came with that. No natural sources near me i can think of, i have some clonex mychorizal powder. .What is the smallest size container you guys would recommend for living soil to go through complete flower cycle? Are fabrics still being used for for anybody not doing sips? (Smallest I've heard of i think was 7gallon hoping that's large enough for proper living soil environment). For sips I'm trying to figure out minimum container size as well as where to find that rubber grommet piece. Also I believe em1 revived my dying worms, is there any known consequence of adding em1 directly to worms?

Back to soil cooking, here is my new list, I'm trying to take into account how long nutrients take to become available for plants. Kinda making my soil with the intention of a shorter cook, so no bone meal for me. I do plan on adding em1/kashi to the cook and idk how much that really effects the timeline if someone's able to clear that up as well. For my understanding, using the list below, besides the minerals/rock dust, the crab would probably be last nutrient to break down (guessing)?
Heres my new mix lmk if you see problems:
Malibu compost
EWC (Natures Solution and some of my own)
Sphagnum peat (premier peat brand)
Pumice
Ahimsa neem cake
Kelp (DTE)
Crab (DTE)
Bokashi (SCD Probiotics)
EM1
Langebenite (DTE)
Basalt rock dust
Glacial rock dust
Oyster Shells crushed
More cook questions, anybody ever ammend foxfarms happy frog and allow to cook? or add em1 to foxfarms anyone? How about Em1 to established plants (besides sip reservoir)? Saw a guy drink em1 so where do we draw the line lol where should I not use em1? Thanks to the wizard who can answer all my questions. Yall've been answering most without me asking.
 
$licc Ricc

$licc Ricc

Active Member
I use a few different bene bacteria and fungus...biolive, great white shark, Oregonism xl, and +live as a plant probiotic. As for the soil cooking usually 4 to 6 weeks with proper moisture and temperature it'll be good to use and available for plants. They do sell a premix already cooked called m3 Michigan mix. I am going to give this a shot with the recommendation of the "papa poop" they offer as well.
 
$licc Ricc

$licc Ricc

Active Member
The list looks good man. Just keep an eye on water pH....if you need to use an organic pH up and down to get your soil right I recommend using food grade potassium bicarbonate for pH up, and 5000mg ascorbic acid powder. Both you can get for 20. Test your water and purchase according. Good luck.
 
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