How do you cook your living soil/super-soil

MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
buenochair said:
Here for help again, more living soil questions, first anybody have good recommendation for a mychorizal source? I'm replacing biolive, previously relying on mychorizals that came with that. No natural sources near me i can think of, i have some clonex mychorizal powder. .What is the smallest size container you guys would recommend for living soil to go through complete flower cycle? Are fabrics still being used for for anybody not doing sips? (Smallest I've heard of i think was 7gallon hoping that's large enough for proper living soil environment). For sips I'm trying to figure out minimum container size as well as where to find that rubber grommet piece. Also I believe em1 revived my dying worms, is there any known consequence of adding em1 directly to worms?

Back to soil cooking, here is my new list, I'm trying to take into account how long nutrients take to become available for plants. Kinda making my soil with the intention of a shorter cook, so no bone meal for me. I do plan on adding em1/kashi to the cook and idk how much that really effects the timeline if someone's able to clear that up as well. For my understanding, using the list below, besides the minerals/rock dust, the crab would probably be last nutrient to break down (guessing)?
Heres my new mix lmk if you see problems:
Malibu compost
EWC (Natures Solution and some of my own)
Sphagnum peat (premier peat brand)
Pumice
Ahimsa neem cake
Kelp (DTE)
Crab (DTE)
Bokashi (SCD Probiotics)
EM1
Langebenite (DTE)
Basalt rock dust
Glacial rock dust
Oyster Shells crushed
More cook questions, anybody ever ammend foxfarms happy frog and allow to cook? or add em1 to foxfarms anyone? How about Em1 to established plants (besides sip reservoir)? Saw a guy drink em1 so where do we draw the line lol where should I not use em1? Thanks to the wizard who can answer all my questions. Yall've been answering most without me asking.
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I just wanted to add a couple thoughts.
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
That mix is most likely going to compact. I suggest perlliite and cooco to lighten it. It is cheaper and easier to use mix of
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
I'm back. F'n Microsoft arbitrarily installing broken updates.

As I was saying. FFOF, Coco-Coire, Dairy Doo 101, Dairy Doo compost, peat and a good cheap orchid mix. Ammended with Coast of Maine "Stonington Blend" fert, Boogie Br$w tea and B$$gie Black as dry additives. This is half the cost of your list. More complete additives, "I believe". And will yield 40 - 50 gallons of mix. I use Dairy Doo because they are a local company with a good product. Any decent facsimile should do. I also use Michigan peat for it's being local. But mostly because it rules compared to years of buying clearance stock in the fall of whoever's mislabled top soil.

As far as micros go. That's easier than expected or mislead by manufacturers. They occur naturally and our atmosphere is full of it. Just the addition of water, warmth and dark will start growth. Add worm castings and you are ready to grow fungus. I used to use a kiddie pool or 10x10 tarp to mix my dirt in or on. Moisten it well with water and leave exposed to the air in the shade for 2 or 3 days. Keep it damp. Then cover and check every other day for moisture. In 10-14 days you should have growth. I have used rapid rise yeast in winter here with good results as well. It isn't right. But it gets a culture started. Stop reading brochures and learn what you are working with. And where and how it lives. I'm a frugal, cheap, bastard. But I grow beautiful plants with techniques that give "look at me growers" nightmares. So that was my opinion. Hope it it helped you look at your situation from another perspective. This is only as complicated as you make it.

Grommets can be had at any hardware or big box store. Online. Best wishes. Happy healthy people and plants to all.
 
$licc Ricc

$licc Ricc

Active Member
Homie wrapped it up and slapped a green bow on top for ya. Last but not least. KIS. Simplicity works and will always work, don't overthink it and don't make it harder on yourself.
 
Dabbie McDoob

Dabbie McDoob

Well-Known Member
Allowing the compost to decompose creates a syncytium within the super soil.
Bio availability is the key output of the microbes and fungi that thrive within amended soils.
1-2 months in a hot shed, barn, etc is typically how long I find it take in my region to achieve this.

Some tips to share:
1. Heat is key, space needs to be warm
2. Water is key and the soil must not dry out
3. Find easily available amendments...i.e. a local lobster shop gives me crushed shells and saves the seaweed caught in nets for me.

Less is more.

Best of luck!
 
B

buenochair

Member
thanks again for the advice guys.
Main question now, How large of a container are you guys using for living soil indoors. what is minimum size for regular grow or sip?
Good answer for mycos/ff living soil example i was looking for @MICHI-CAN . Curious to the difference between your homemade myco compared to the ones made in other environments or brand ones. trichoderma harzianum seems to be the thing that breeds around me tbh any soil i set out here will have enough of that lol probably breathed enough of those mycotoxins.. I'll take my sip questions to the sip thread.

Still some questions remain unanswered at least in this cooking thread.

Thought one of you might know how long does crab takes to become available to the plant? Feel like topdressing people would have great experience with seeing when the plant takes that extra N/P. I'm guessing in part would depend on your soil microbes but we know bone typically takes longer than others, so do we have some kinda working nutrient availability timeline for different nutes? tried googling but figured you rollitup fam would have the real scoop. Especially because people here have experience with LABS, EM1 etc. So on top of regular timeline, how much will compost accelerator, accelerate the composting? Hell I'll burn or deprive some plants to get an idea.

Lets learn what's happening with the soil chemistry. Work here is not done.
 
B

buenochair

Member
Oh yeah and how about soil/em1 cooking anaerobic vs open air. I haven't folllowed the anerobic em1 conversation to the end of the rabbit hole yet but last I checked people are saying em1 somehow performs both anaerobic and not? no difference?
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
buenochair said:
thanks again for the advice guys.
Main question now, How large of a container are you guys using for living soil indoors. what is minimum size for regular grow or sip?
Good answer for mycos/ff living soil example i was looking for @MICHI-CAN . Curious to the difference between your homemade myco compared to the ones made in other environments or brand ones. trichoderma harzianum seems to be the thing that breeds around me tbh any soil i set out here will have enough of that lol probably breathed enough of those mycotoxins.. I'll take my sip questions to the sip thread.

Still some questions remain unanswered at least in this cooking thread.

Thought one of you might know how long does crab takes to become available to the plant? Feel like topdressing people would have great experience with seeing when the plant takes that extra N/P. I'm guessing in part would depend on your soil microbes but we know bone typically takes longer than others, so do we have some kinda working nutrient availability timeline for different nutes? tried googling but figured you rollitup fam would have the real scoop. Especially because people here have experience with LABS, EM1 etc. So on top of regular timeline, how much will compost accelerator, accelerate the composting? Hell I'll burn or deprive some plants to get an idea.

Lets learn what's happening with the soil chemistry. Work here is not done.
Click to expand...
I'm just A hillybilly from the backwoods of Michigan's U.P.. I am convinced that the local oak bark is significantly better at root growth. Your knowledge exceeds mine. I Try to use K.I.S.S. method. Not A Single Store Bought innoculation has ever impressed me as much. It's like any living thing. Drop It in A strange place and It will have to acclimatize before It can thrive. Local materials are have an advantage. And are less likely to over populate. Happy Frog left me unhappy. Had to top dress in 5 weeks and flood with 6.0water the last attempt. Thumbs down vote here.
 
B

buenochair

Member
MICHI-CAN said:
I'm just A hillybilly from the backwoods of Michigan's U.P.. I am convinced that the local oak bark is significantly better at root growth. Your knowledge exceeds mine. I Try to use K.I.S.S. method. Not A Single Store Bought innoculation has ever impressed me as much. It's like any living thing. Drop It in A strange place and It will have to acclimatize before It can thrive. Local materials are have an advantage. And are less likely to over populate. Happy Frog left me unhappy. Had to top dress in 5 weeks and flood with 6.0water the last attempt. Thumbs down vote here.
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Yo, forgot I had this sitting on my patio, idk what this is but worth a shot right? lol
IMG_20200619_174305[1].jpg
You'd be surprised how little I know, my ignorance is limitless. Love hearing regular nature beat processed or refined nature haha. If that bark gets the job yall think I'm gonna pay for clonex? My hydroshop gave me it actually i wouldn't pay for that now. Now how does one test for microbes/fungi? Smell/sight test?... More research time. I'm running happy frog on seedlings and screwing up transfers like a noob, and yeah it seems weak. Speaking fungus check it
IMG_20200619_152403[1].jpg
In person the white/yellow stuff is little balls. 2 seedlings just happy frog, 1 with clonex mycorrhizal powder, both looked like this around the periphery of the container, can't tell if eggs or fungus. I'm hoping eggs so my beneficial nematodes get to feast on the fuckers. TBH it looks like eggs and fungus bleh, wish i could be outdoors so bad.
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
buenochair said:
Yo, forgot I had this sitting on my patio, idk what this is but worth a shot right? lol
View attachment 4600047
You'd be surprised how little I know, my ignorance is limitless. Love hearing regular nature beat processed or refined nature haha. If that bark gets the job yall think I'm gonna pay for clonex? My hydroshop gave me it actually i wouldn't pay for that now. Now how does one test for microbes/fungi? Smell/sight test?... More research time. I'm running happy frog on seedlings and screwing up transfers like a noob, and yeah it seems weak. Speaking fungus check it
View attachment 4600029
In person the white/yellow stuff is little balls. 2 seedlings just happy frog, 1 with clonex mycorrhizal powder, both looked like this around the periphery of the container, can't tell if eggs or fungus. I'm hoping eggs so my beneficial nematodes get to feast on the fuckers. TBH it looks like eggs and fungus bleh, wish i could be outdoors so bad.
Click to expand...
That Looks like an oak. At Least hardwood. The Outside is usually lichens and actual fungus/mushrooms. You want what's under the bark. It will be white to light yellow. I'll post A pic when I can get off this junk tablet.
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
That's what is left of my pile. Need to strip some more bark and throw a bucket over it after watering.
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
waterproof808 said:
I wouldnt waste money on bokashi for a soil mix, you are better off investing in a high quality humus source.
Click to expand...
While we express our opinions for differing points of view, we are striving for the same goal. Glad to hear others informing the OP. Nothing is reproducible outside a lab. And still questionable. Eventually we will all reach an omnipotent recipe that is agreed on. Until then. Experiment and share your experiences. Never know what you may begin or find. Peace.
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Dabbie McDoob said:
Allowing the compost to decompose creates a syncytium within the super soil.
Bio availability is the key output of the microbes and fungi that thrive within amended soils.
1-2 months in a hot shed, barn, etc is typically how long I find it take in my region to achieve this.

Some tips to share:
1. Heat is key, space needs to be warm
2. Water is key and the soil must not dry out
3. Find easily available amendments...i.e. a local lobster shop gives me crushed shells and saves the seaweed caught in nets for me.

Less is more.

Best of luck!
Click to expand...
The space doesn't need to be warm. That's not what cooking means. The microbes create the heat. But yes the microbes work faster at warmer temps. I just let mine sit and cook in my cool basement usually. Of course if it gets too cold, the microbes will go dormant.

I agree with the rest though.
 
B

buenochair

Member
waterproof808 said:
I wouldnt waste money on bokashi for a soil mix, you are better off investing in a high quality humus source.
Click to expand...
Have you personally run bokashi with a soil mix? I got it with the intention of making a sip and still plan on using mostly following greenthumbs method. It's cheap to make your own bokashi any reason you don't recommend besides cost? Humus I didn't even think was comparable, still learning.
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
buenochair said:
Have you personally run bokashi with a soil mix? I got it with the intention of making a sip and still plan on using mostly following greenthumbs method. It's cheap to make your own bokashi any reason you don't recommend besides cost?
Click to expand...
I recently started using Gro-Kashi, and it definitely creates a nice mycelium layer. Malted barley seemed to work for me too, but nothing like the Kashi.
 
L

loco41

Well-Known Member
MICHI-CAN said:
While we express our opinions for differing points of view, we are striving for the same goal. Glad to hear others informing the OP. Nothing is reproducible outside a lab. And still questionable. Eventually we will all reach an omnipotent recipe that is agreed on. Until then. Experiment and share your experiences. Never know what you may begin or find. Peace.
Click to expand...
Well said. I love knowing that no one else has my same soil growing and that it's my own. Whether that is for better or worse, who knows. Eventually I will get around to playing with specific variables in some mixes, but every result will be just speculation on my part. The endless paths of things that may or may not impact things has me hooked.

buenochair said:
Have you personally run bokashi with a soil mix? I got it with the intention of making a sip and still plan on using mostly following greenthumbs method. It's cheap to make your own bokashi any reason you don't recommend besides cost? Humus I didn't even think was comparable, still learning.
Click to expand...
I recently expanded some em1 that I had bought a couple years ago and had hardly used up til now. I then made some homemade bokashi out of it. I sprinkled some on top of some soil I have sitting in totes and it grew some strong mycellium pretty quick. Added some to the worm bins as well and they loved it too. I also used some of the expanded em1 (used some kelp and alfalfa as feed along with the molasses, so maybe that is doing something? who knows though) as a feed when I flipped to flower. My plants seem happy and seemed to respond positively to the use of the em1, but really can't say it enhanced anything. I guess my point being is how I like what @MICHI-CAN said. If you feel the urge, try it out. As long as you aren't overdoing any one thing, you will probably be ok.

Also, I liked the newer mix you posted this time. I used something very similar to that for my last batch I made up, but had a few extra things like alfalfa and frass along with others. I think following the more so coots style will give you solid results and allow you to find more so specific information for what you have going since a lot of people started out with similar things. In my opinion, as long as you have a few basic things covered, quality compost/aeration/liming agent in soil, the options are endless beyond that.

I say all this with only having like 5 grows under my belt, so take it all with a grain of salt. Sorry for rambling on as well, just really enjoy talking about soils and get tired of the wild looks I get when it comes up in personal conversations hah.
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
loco41 said:
Well said. I love knowing that no one else has my same soil growing and that it's my own. Whether that is for better or worse, who knows. Eventually I will get around to playing with specific variables in some mixes, but every result will be just speculation on my part. The endless paths of things that may or may not impact things has me hooked.



I recently expanded some em1 that I had bought a couple years ago and had hardly used up til now. I then made some homemade bokashi out of it. I sprinkled some on top of some soil I have sitting in totes and it grew some strong mycellium pretty quick. Added some to the worm bins as well and they loved it too. I also used some of the expanded em1 (used some kelp and alfalfa as feed along with the molasses, so maybe that is doing something? who knows though) as a feed when I flipped to flower. My plants seem happy and seemed to respond positively to the use of the em1, but really can't say it enhanced anything. I guess my point being is how I like what @MICHI-CAN said. If you feel the urge, try it out. As long as you aren't overdoing any one thing, you will probably be ok.

Also, I liked the newer mix you posted this time. I used something very similar to that for my last batch I made up, but had a few extra things like alfalfa and frass along with others. I think following the more so coots style will give you solid results and allow you to find more so specific information for what you have going since a lot of people started out with similar things. In my opinion, as long as you have a few basic things covered, quality compost/aeration/liming agent in soil, the options are endless beyond that.

I say all this with only having like 5 grows under my belt, so take it all with a grain of salt. Sorry for rambling on as well, just really enjoy talking about soils and get tired of the wild looks I get when it comes up in personal conversations hah.
Click to expand...
I had to chop a beautiful Bodhi Dragonfruit today. Males seem to always take something from you. But seed dropped April 18, 2020. In 3 gallon pot with my mix after two transplants and an aggressive soil reclamation. This is about 60 - 80 % of my root development. Healthy and thick.001.jpg002.jpg
 
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