Timber Redwood VS efficiency % decrease in a year??

[hybridway2]

That needs to be qualified. Recent testing at "full power" (which can mean different things for different lights), 24/7, without active cooling, shows a 5% decrease per year. It's not at all fair to plaster that result over any given fixture, because the conditions under which it's operated can be quite varied.

True accept that test does apply to the OP. Same components roughly. Prob better thermal mgnt on the MiGro. Plus, does an led degrade more from being switched on & off (like hps & most other lights do)?
If so then we're even worse of then that test. Or that 1.3 is now 1yr if that's the case.

 

[lukio]

Or that 1.3 is now 1yr if that's the case.

could i see your math behind that? lol

ive run original boards on shit heatsinks with the driver on top of them for years flat out. i havent noticed any drop...but then i prolly wouldnt notice if one was talking to me.

 

[hybridway2]

could i see your math behind that? lol

ive run original boards on shit heatsinks with the driver on top of them for years flat out. i havent noticed any drop...but then i prolly wouldnt notice if one talking to me.

No math, guestamation w/o knowing what or if any degradation is caused by on n off.
You know i be right man. Lol! Including speech & spelling. Lmfao!
Shane got a new IR video out already?

 

[Humple]

True accept that test does apply to the OP. Same components roughly. Prob better thermal mgnt on the MiGro. Plus, does an led degrade more from being switched on & off (like hps & most other lights do)?
If so then we're even worse of then that test. Or that 1.3 is now 1yr if that's the case.

I'm sure the primary culprit in degradation is heat. Migro's test is useful to a point, but he certainly wasn't attempting any additional thermal management above and beyond the stock configurations of those fixtures (and in the case of the QB288, he made it worse by using the plexi cover). Furthermore, many of us have the sense to dim our lights when max power isn't needed, rather than simply raising them, as HPS-minded LED growers sometimes tend to do. And it would help for peeps to have a fan pointed at their lights, to further dissipate heat. There are multiple mitigations.

It's going to be very tiresome if forum members start trumpeting Shane's results as if they're gospel. As it is, we already have too many peeps spouting premature conclusions on the subject of spectrum.

 

[hybridway2]

I'm sure the primary culprit in degradation is heat. Migro's test is useful to a point, but he certainly wasn't attempting any additional thermal management above and beyond the stock configurations of those fixtures (and in the case of the QB288, he made it worse by using the plexi cover). Furthermore, many of us have the sense to dim our lights when max power isn't needed, rather than simply raising them, as HPS-minded LED growers sometimes tend to do. And it would help for peeps to have a fan pointed at their lights, to further dissipate heat. There are multiple mitigations.

It's going to be very tiresome if forum members start trumpeting Shane's results as if they're gospel. As it is, we already have too many peeps spouting premature conclusions on the subject of spectrum.

You guys should really let that go...
There's like a 1" space between it. Blahhaha!

 

[welight]

If you want to understand led life you got to get up close and personal with heat. Long term performance and heat are totally interdependent

 

[Moflow]

6 years to where they're STILL AT 80% Of their output. basically unnoticeable n

Just put the fixture 20% closer and get another few years outta it......... lol

 

[hybridway2]

Just put the fixture 20% closer and get another few years outta it......... lol

Can i see your math behind that? Links or independent 3rd party testing??? Preferably by a scientist, but definitely NOT a grower.
Jk

 

[Renfro]

Thing is with the LED's being so new and constantly being updated, I don't think anyone really knows how they degrade, just educated guesses. We will know more in 5 years but by then 20 new generations of chips are out and nobody cares about the older ones...

 

[lukio]

Preferably by a scientist, but definitely NOT a grower.

i'll take scientist over grower every time...or a hybrid

 

[Humple]

You guys should really let that go...
There's like a 1" space between it. Blahhaha!

You think that wouldn't increase temps? Easy enough to find out - we just need someone with plexi over their 288s to stick a thermometer between the board and the cover.

 

[hybridway2]

i'll take scientist over grower every time...or a hybrid

I'm sure you will. And that's exactly why you are always light years behind the curve. And still believe the McCree curve is all there is.
Scientists only test something after hundreds of thousands of Growers have figured it out for themselves.
Oh my Gosh. I can't believe i have to explain this stuff after being right so many times before a some scientific test.
Yes, so many times. I said it. If you want references just start reading Hybridway threads around from "15" to now.
I feel bad for close minded Sheep.
But still eat Lamb!

 

[hybridway2]

Su

You think that wouldn't increase temps? Easy enough to find out - we just need someone with plexi over their 288s to stick a thermometer between the board and the cover.

Sure it will. But nothing that should not already be there anyways.
Bare diodes is not suited for the conditions of a real grow room.
You buy the newest I-Phone with No case?
That'll last 1 day if you're lucky.
This is why the 301 H has protective film over it for example.

 

[Humple]

Su
Sure it will. But nothing that should not already be there anyways.
Bare diodes is not suited for the conditions of a real grow room.
You buy the newest I-Phone with No case?
That'll last 1 day if you're lucky.
This is why the 301 H has protective film over it for example.

So you state that it will INCREASE temps, but somehow not more than is already there anyway??? You lost me on that one, man. The word "increase" has a very clear definition.

Bare diodes have been suitable for many grow rooms, for quite a long time.

I wouldn't buy an iPhone in the first place. Overpriced and overhyped. Kind of like some LED fixtures we see around here from time to time.

 

[lukio]

I'm sure you will. And that's exactly why you are always light years behind the curve.
Scientists only test something after hundreds of thousands of Growers have figured it out for themselves.
Oh my Gosh. I can't believe i have to explain this stuff after being right so many times before a some scientific test.
Yes, so many times. I said it. If you want references just start reading Hybridway threads around from "15" to now.
I feel bad for close minded Sheep.
But still eat Lamb!

you're one of a kind, real fucking special.

do you do classes?

 

[hybridway2]

So you state that it will INCREASE temps, but somehow not more than is already there anyway??? You lost me on that one, man. The word "increase" has a very clear definition.

Bare diodes have been suitable for many grow rooms, for quite a long time.

I wouldn't buy an iPhone in the first place. Overpriced and overhyped. Kind of like some LED fixtures we see around here from time to time.

I'm willing to bet Stephen himself would recommend the Plexiglass in a harsher growing environment or one where plants cannot be moved away from the light to foliar feed or treat with a preventative.
You know, like the grows with bigger plants.
Maybe like a grow Room or a warehouse.
It must be nice to be able to do that but unfortunately for me & others growing multiple 4x4's at once, its not practical & very risky.
Just about any of these lights should have been designed to withstand lenses For 4 yrs before seeing the expected 6-8 yr drop. If not then the thermal mngmt was compromised from the first day of sale IMO.
When you see people bashing beefed heat sinks you know there's something terribly wrong around here.
So, you guys are saying that you should buy a 660w led fixture but dim it to 450w so it will last as long as the manufacturer said it would???
Isn't that like bragging your fixture gets 3 umol/j because you dimmed it?
Sounds crazy to me but then again according to some here, i am.
Shane's & the other fixtures compared all had covers & can be used either way.
Sorry man, i know you try to be unbiased. But trying so hard to prove me wrong all the time just makes me waste to much time responding. Do you seriously think i make no sense when i speak? Especially when i am unbiased.
This whole led degradation thing sux ass for all of us. All of us.

 

[hybridway2]

you're one of a kind, real fucking special.

do you do classes?

I do but with your yeilds i doubt you could afford it! Haha! I crack me up. Just playing with you man. You know that right?
Seriously.
Edit: see, now that i finally hit your yields i can joke like that. : )

 

[hybridway2]

Haha! Not funny but They just busted a Mars Hydro grow out here. Mad gats, doe n tree. Oh and Free Mars Hydro advertising.
Just thought it was funny to see a bunch of Mars Boards on tv.

 

[Humple]

I'm willing to bet Stephen himself would recommend the Plexiglass in a harsher growing environment or one where plants cannot be moved away from the light to foliar feed or treat with a preventative.
You know, like the grows with bigger plants.
Maybe like a grow Room or a warehouse.
It must be nice to be able to do that but unfortunately for me & others growing multiple 4x4's at once, its not practical & very risky.
Just about any of these lights should have been designed to withstand lenses For 4 yrs before seeing the expected 6-8 yr drop. If not then the thermal mngmt was compromised from the first day of sale IMO.
When you see people bashing beefed heat sinks you know there's something terribly wrong around here.
So, you guys are saying that you should buy a 660w led fixture but dim it to 450w so it will last as long as the manufacturer said it would???
Isn't that like bragging your fixture gets 3 umol/j because you dimmed it?
Sounds crazy to me but then again according to some here, i am.
Shane's & the other fixtures compared all had covers & can be used either way.
Sorry man, i know you try to be unbiased. But trying so hard to prove me wrong all the time just makes me waste to much time responding. Do you seriously think i make no sense when i speak? Especially when i am unbiased.
This whole led degradation thing sux ass for all of us. All of us.

Fuck. Wrote a long reply and it disappeared on me. Fuck. Alright, I'll try to condense.

Grow rooms doesn't equal commercial, and bare diodes are daily proving themselves suitable. Besides, some commercial grows have small plants, dude.

You have high expectations for longevity. Good on you for that, but can you tell me the degradation on your Bar-8 after 6,000 hours at full blast?

No one was saying to permanently dim your fixture. Fuck's sake, man. If you were running a big-time commercial op, you can bet your ass you'd be using those dimmers, because it saves energy. Win-win, it also keeps your lights performing well for a longer period of time.

Not trying to prove you wrong at all, man. You make a lot of definitive statements, so I ask you to back them with more than one grower's personal experience, but so far that's what you've offered. I'm honestly not being hostile, and I actually appreciate that you try to stay good-humored in these exchanges. But you make big talk, man, so we're going to Carl Sagan you, see?

 

[hybridway2]

Fuck. Wrote a long reply and it disappeared on me. Fuck. Alright, I'll try to condense.

Grow rooms doesn't equal commercial, and bare diodes are daily proving themselves suitable. Besides, some commercial grows have small plants, dude.

You have high expectations for longevity. Good on you for that, but can you tell me the degradation on your Bar-8 after 6,000 hours at full blast?

No one was saying to permanently dim your fixture. Fuck's sake, man. If you were running a big-time commercial op, you can bet your ass you'd be using those dimmers, because it saves energy. Win-win, it also keeps your lights performing well for a longer period of time.

Not trying to prove you wrong at all, man. You make a lot of definitive statements, so I ask you to back them with more than one grower's personal experience, but so far that's what you've offered. I'm honestly not being hostile, and I actually appreciate that you try to stay good-humored in these exchanges. But you make big talk, man, so we're going to Carl Sagan you, see?

Fair Enough. I Don't mean to sound Combative. Smoke mad dabs/herb n shit comes out sideways sometimes.
Ok response time.
-I never said they weren't suitable. Just not for my room bare. I have always had this opinion before QB's when i bitched about bare cobs thinking they were allot more fragile. All i knew was expensive.
Wasn't really just talking big plants or rooms. -I mean wherever you cannot move your plant or light or have time to bother.
-I have NO idea how long the Bar-8 will last. It does have thick enough glass that is fully Gasgeted. So not much breathing going on there. But the heatsinks are monsters & temps with the IR gun are significantly cooler then some other tech that also puts out high par now. As are the diodes, so idk. If they compensated correctly, as i feel they did, then i would hope for a good 6 yrs before seeing 20%. That's 4-5 flower runs a Yr with some vegging. Just my hopeful guess.
-Rarely does anyone i know with high ceilings dim their lights unless maybe using them for veg. (I do)
-My interpreted "Big Talk" is always stated by me as my opinion or experience unless i feel it is indeed a fact.

I know I rub some the wrong way. Not my intention though. Must be my Assholios syndrome kicking in.
You always have good responses & points that i hear. And keep me on my toes! So I'm good.