Elizabeth Warren

UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Unclebaldrick said:
Wow that sucks. So mine would go up a lot and my health care would get worse. My health Care is free too so that's a huge decline in standard of living.

Bad idea.
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I pay about $100 a month and have used $2800 in healthcare this year, nothing in the five years before

so most years would be $4000+ increase
 
S

spek9

Well-Known Member
Unclebaldrick said:
Actually it sounds about right. It's 11.6% of GDP.
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Yep. Whether it's good or bad deal, I don't know a single Canadian who's ever gone bankrupt because of an illness or injury. Also, there are taxes that we don't have to pay up here, such as estate tax, or windfall tax (lottery, casino, gaming winnings etc) among others (including the Wall tax, or as @UncleBuck just pointed out, a HUGE Pentagon fund).

I'm content the way it works up here. I never have to worry about my children, loved ones or friends having to decide between bankruptcy or death due to not being able to get medical help.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
spek9 said:
Yep. Whether it's good or bad deal, I don't know a single Canadian who's ever gone bankrupt because of an illness or injury. Also, there are taxes that we don't have to pay up here, such as estate tax, or windfall tax (lottery, casino, gaming winnings etc) among others (including the Wall tax, or as @UncleBuck just pointed out, a HUGE Pentagon fund).

I'm content the way it works up here. I never have to worry about my children, loved ones or friends having to decide between bankruptcy or death due to not being able to get medical help.
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Thanks, Justin Trudeau
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Her plan is pretty well documented and can be found here: https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/m4a-transition . It contains much more detail and rigor than anything Bernie wrote.

Do I believe it will happen as she wrote it? No, I don't. I don't because she will face tremendous opposition as well as fear, uncertainty and doubt from people like me. My first issue with her plan is her three-year timeline. I don't think Its possible to grow Medicare from where it is today into one that covers everybody in three years. My second concern is my doubt in her assumptions about cost reductions offsetting cost increases without degrading quality of service.

That said, the plan overall is pretty good and I agree with much of it. After listening to what she is saying and looking at her track record, I think she's the best choice among the other candidates to make great progress towards a single payer system during her first term. Her track record also says she's pragmatic and doesn't just demand her way or go home. Also, I doubt her "no new taxes" promise can be fully delivered. OTOH, the plan that she wrote, in my opinion, will not be a total swing and a miss, leaving taxpayers footing a 2x increase when it comes to paying for their healthcare. Her detailed list cost reductions can take a big bite out of the increases in costs involved in covering everybody. I simply don't believe they will be totally realized, leaving the taxpayer with an increase but not a whopping large one.

I really like this bit:
  • I will fight to pass fast-track budget reconciliation legislation to create a true Medicare for All option that’s free for tens of millions. I won’t hand Mitch McConnell a veto over my health care agenda. Instead, I’ll give every American over the age of 50 the choice to enter an improved Medicare program, and I’ll give every person in America the choice to get coverage through a true Medicare for All option. Coverage under the new Medicare for All option will be immediately free for children under the age of 18 and for families making at or below 200% of the federal poverty level (about $51,000 for a family of four). For all others, the cost will be modest, and eventually, coverage under this plan will be free for everyone.
By the end of my first 100 days, we will have opened the door for tens of millions of Americans to get high-quality Medicare for All coverage at little or no cost.

This is the nut that has to be cracked first. Make Medicare available to everybody who wants it and make Medicare free to those who can't afford private insurance. I like her aggressive approach in this regard.
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I'm still sorting through details but this sounds pretty well composed. It seems like a good plan and by having different amounts of coverage, not making it free for all and reducing costs, she will make single payer work.

Make no mistake, this is still going to be a huge budget item and everyone will feel that tax burden. You can play with numbers all day but this is still going to be the biggest item on the federal budget. It's bigger than the defense spending by far. Nonetheless, it may actually be possible to make it happen with far less of a middle class tax hike than Bernie's plan.

It's a compromise and I still think a 24 trillion dollar ten year budget item is too big. With that said, this is feasible and far better than bernie's bill. We'll have taxes. You cannot increase spending by so much without increasing revenue. It will result in massive debt, which we already have.

I like the idea of making it a healthcare industrial complex. Get medical tourists coming to America to reduce our costs.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
spek9 said:
Yep. Whether it's good or bad deal, I don't know a single Canadian who's ever gone bankrupt because of an illness or injury. Also, there are taxes that we don't have to pay up here, such as estate tax, or windfall tax (lottery, casino, gaming winnings etc) among others (including the Wall tax, or as @UncleBuck just pointed out, a HUGE Pentagon fund).

I'm content the way it works up here. I never have to worry about my children, loved ones or friends having to decide between bankruptcy or death due to not being able to get medical help.
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Our defense budget is 700 billion dollars per year.

Bernie's plan, by his own estimate, is to cost 32.6 trillion dollars for the first decade.

If you are going to compare numbers, cite the numbers.

Single payer will also eliminate a million jobs and give doctors a pay cut. The military creates jobs and increases gdp by more than its cost.

Go ahead and call me a bad person.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
I'm still sorting through details but this sounds pretty well composed. It seems like a good plan and by having different amounts of coverage, not making it free for all and reducing costs, she will make single payer work.

Make no mistake, this is still going to be a huge budget item and everyone will feel that tax burden. You can play with numbers all day but this is still going to be the biggest item on the federal budget. It's bigger than the defense spending by far. Nonetheless, it may actually be possible to make it happen with far less of a middle class tax hike than Bernie's plan.

It's a compromise and I still think a 24 trillion dollar ten year budget item is too big. With that said, this is feasible and far better than bernie's bill. We'll have taxes. You cannot increase spending by so much without increasing revenue. It will result in massive debt, which we already have.

I like the idea of making it a healthcare industrial complex. Get medical tourists coming to America to reduce our costs.
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I'm not satisfied with the plan either. The claim is "no new taxes". You are right to be skeptical. I don't know how much more information can be made available right now. Too many unknowns. Same with every candidate. So, I'm listening to the candidates and deciding which one I can make a leap of faith with. To me, it's Warren. Sanders? not a leader, poor choice. Biden? Out of touch and a leader who is appropriate for the job 20 years ago. Buttigieg? No experience at even the state level. I think Warren is somebody who can work with congress to get things done and has the right values.

Every one of them are leagues better than Trump, though.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I'm not satisfied with the plan either. The claim is "no new taxes". You are right to be skeptical. I don't know how much more information can be made available right now. Too many unknowns. Same with every candidate. So, I'm listening to the candidates and deciding which one I can make a leap of faith with. To me, it's Warren. Sanders? not a leader, poor choice. Biden? Out of touch and a leader who is appropriate for the job 20 years ago. Buttigieg? No experience at even the state level. I think Warren is somebody who can work with congress to get things done and has the right values.

Every one of them are leagues better than Trump, though.
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I mean, buttigieg is clearly from the Intel community. You do see that? I think he has more foreign policy cred than any of them. He graduated MCL Harvard too. He's a smart motherfucker. Check out his platform, good proposals. @londonfog made some great points against him though. He will struggle with black voters for sure.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
I mean, buttigieg is clearly from the Intel community. You do see that? I think he has more foreign policy cred than any of them. He graduated MCL Harvard too. He's a smart motherfucker. Check out his platform, good proposals. @londonfog made some great points against him though. He will struggle with black voters for sure.
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It has not been a smooth ride for him as mayor, has it?
 
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