Elizabeth Warren

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
The same way you feel about Bernie I now feel about Biden. I have put him under a microscope and what I see I don't like, in fact I hate. I now find myself thinking about letting abstinence be my voice if he wins, but then I think about the people who have fought and died for the right for me to cast my vote. I pray he does not win so I want have to face that decision
Yeah, that's a hard one to grapple with. We have to take into account issues that may not seem to be so high on our lists, like the environment and global warming. I mean, I'm sure you do care about that and obviously, you cultivate flora. I don't disagree with you regarding Biden. I think both you and @UncleBuck should deescalate. Agree to disagree. UB has been the clearest voice here against the racism that would run rampant otherwise. It was insensitive of him to demand that you call CBC members racist for backing Biden's crime bill. Whether he has a point or not, it's insensitive and I can see why it annoyed you.

You two should be cool.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Do you really think she can write a single-payer bill without tax hikes as she has been campaigning on?

She won't even answer the questions. I could be convinced if your argument prevails, this isn't a taunt. I don't hate her and she IS far better than Trump. As it stands now, I don't support her economic agenda.
Her plan is pretty well documented and can be found here: https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/m4a-transition . It contains much more detail and rigor than anything Bernie wrote.

Do I believe it will happen as she wrote it? No, I don't. I don't because she will face tremendous opposition as well as fear, uncertainty and doubt from people like me. My first issue with her plan is her three-year timeline. I don't think Its possible to grow Medicare from where it is today into one that covers everybody in three years. My second concern is my doubt in her assumptions about cost reductions offsetting cost increases without degrading quality of service.

That said, the plan overall is pretty good and I agree with much of it. After listening to what she is saying and looking at her track record, I think she's the best choice among the other candidates to make great progress towards a single payer system during her first term. Her track record also says she's pragmatic and doesn't just demand her way or go home. Also, I doubt her "no new taxes" promise can be fully delivered. OTOH, the plan that she wrote, in my opinion, will not be a total swing and a miss, leaving taxpayers footing a 2x increase when it comes to paying for their healthcare. Her detailed list cost reductions can take a big bite out of the increases in costs involved in covering everybody. I simply don't believe they will be totally realized, leaving the taxpayer with an increase but not a whopping large one.

I really like this bit:
  • I will fight to pass fast-track budget reconciliation legislation to create a true Medicare for All option that’s free for tens of millions. I won’t hand Mitch McConnell a veto over my health care agenda. Instead, I’ll give every American over the age of 50 the choice to enter an improved Medicare program, and I’ll give every person in America the choice to get coverage through a true Medicare for All option. Coverage under the new Medicare for All option will be immediately free for children under the age of 18 and for families making at or below 200% of the federal poverty level (about $51,000 for a family of four). For all others, the cost will be modest, and eventually, coverage under this plan will be free for everyone.
By the end of my first 100 days, we will have opened the door for tens of millions of Americans to get high-quality Medicare for All coverage at little or no cost.

This is the nut that has to be cracked first. Make Medicare available to everybody who wants it and make Medicare free to those who can't afford private insurance. I like her aggressive approach in this regard.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Are you ever gonna get back to me about raising my taxes from 15.3% to 26.8% to pay for this?

at least Bernie said the first $29000 I earn will be exempt from the 4%

you just went silent and ran away
If your taxes will increase, you can afford it, that's the idea of a progressive taxation system
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
snicker

You left out the part that covers protecting men's rights.
It's Biden or Sanders unless Warren overperforms in Iowa and New Hampshire

Biden has the second highest number of billionaire backers behind Buttigieg, Sanders has the highest small dollar donations from average Americans, the highest amount coming from working class teachers, Amazon and Walmart workers, members of the fast food industry, construction workers, etc.. blue collar workers

Are you going to support someone backed by billionaires or backed by average American workers? That's what this race is going to come down to, and like we saw last election, Democrats are pretty fed up with candidates backed by billionaires because they know those sorts of candidates don't have their best interests in mind.

Haven't we gotten past the idea that money doesn't buy influence?
 
Last edited:

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Her plan is pretty well documented and can be found here: https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/m4a-transition . It contains much more detail and rigor than anything Bernie wrote.

Do I believe it will happen as she wrote it? No, I don't. I don't because she will face tremendous opposition as well as fear, uncertainty and doubt from people like me. My first issue with her plan is her three-year timeline. I don't think Its possible to grow Medicare from where it is today into one that covers everybody in three years. My second concern is my doubt in her assumptions about cost reductions offsetting cost increases without degrading quality of service.

That said, the plan overall is pretty good and I agree with much of it. After listening to what she is saying and looking at her track record, I think she's the best choice among the other candidates to make great progress towards a single payer system during her first term. Her track record also says she's pragmatic and doesn't just demand her way or go home. Also, I doubt her "no new taxes" promise can be fully delivered. OTOH, the plan that she wrote, in my opinion, will not be a total swing and a miss, leaving taxpayers footing a 2x increase when it comes to paying for their healthcare. Her detailed list cost reductions can take a big bite out of the increases in costs involved in covering everybody. I simply don't believe they will be totally realized, leaving the taxpayer with an increase but not a whopping large one.

I really like this bit:
  • I will fight to pass fast-track budget reconciliation legislation to create a true Medicare for All option that’s free for tens of millions. I won’t hand Mitch McConnell a veto over my health care agenda. Instead, I’ll give every American over the age of 50 the choice to enter an improved Medicare program, and I’ll give every person in America the choice to get coverage through a true Medicare for All option. Coverage under the new Medicare for All option will be immediately free for children under the age of 18 and for families making at or below 200% of the federal poverty level (about $51,000 for a family of four). For all others, the cost will be modest, and eventually, coverage under this plan will be free for everyone.
By the end of my first 100 days, we will have opened the door for tens of millions of Americans to get high-quality Medicare for All coverage at little or no cost.

This is the nut that has to be cracked first. Make Medicare available to everybody who wants it and make Medicare free to those who can't afford private insurance. I like her aggressive approach in this regard.
Thanks. I'll take some time on this.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
The same way you feel about Bernie I now feel about Biden. I have put him under a microscope and what I see I don't like, in fact I hate. I now find myself thinking about letting abstinence be my voice if he wins, but then I think about the people who have fought and died for the right for me to cast my vote. I pray he does not win so I want have to face that decision
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
If your taxes will increase, you can afford it, that's the idea of a progressive taxation system
So your answer is I can just pay $9000 more in taxes on my $55k a year earnings?

how do you think that will go with voters?

And for that matter, why wouldn’t I buy the shittiest $150 a month plan from the exchange, pay my $6000 max out of pocket, and get unlimited healthcare for $7800 instead?

you and Bernies shitty expensive pipe dream are a millstone around the necks of Democrats

“just pay $9000 more, you can still afford it”

anathema
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
It's Biden or Sanders unless Warren overperforms in Iowa and New Hampshire

Biden has the second highest number of billionaire backers behind Buttigieg, Sanders has the highest small dollar donations from average Americans, the highest amount coming from working class teachers, Amazon and Walmart workers, members of the fast food industry, construction workers, etc.. blue collar workers

Are you going to support someone backed by billionaires or backed by average American workers? That's what this race is going to come down to, and like we saw last election, Democrats are pretty fed up with candidates backed by billionaires because they know those sorts of candidates don't have their best interests in mind.

Haven't we gotten past the idea that money doesn't buy influence?
um humm. The great Pad has spoken.

I'm not going to vote for Bernie in the primary because he is a crappy leader and doesn't accomplish anything. I don't know why you think that makes him qualified to be president but I'm OK with him over Trump. From what I've seen and heard, he can't beat Trump but I'll vote for him anyway.

I'm glad to see that you agree that Democrats support campaign finance reform.
 

zeddd

Well-Known Member
We don't need to shake things up, Obama got a lot done his two years he actually had the Senate and House, that is what the Democrats need, is to win, not to scare the shit out of half the country.

I really never heard about busing being a issue until Kamala brought it up, and even she kind of backtracked on it being such a bad thing. I went from a school in the city where we walked to school to having to be on the bus for an hour each way when we moved to the country.

If you got a link to what/when Biden said something shitty I am happy to listen/read it.



Why's that? Because he is white? I would love for you to pick through my posts and find one that I am 'snow-blind'. I am not looking for a savior, I am looking for a Democratic candidate that is most likely to help win the Senate and House so shit can actually get done after 4 years of going backwards.


When you have children coming from dysfunctional homes, I agree it is a lot harder for those kids to get to school and not be like a bee all pissed off because it got shook up in a jar and released in a room full of people. I know this from experience.

Growing up I also remember struggling with school and staying eligible for sports, and went to the library with my little brothers so they could check out a couple books for them to read so they wouldn't have the same problems I did. My dad got home and told them reading anything but the bible was bullshit. So yeah I agree growing up with illiterate parents also makes it harder to be as ready for success in school.

I didn't have a mom, but understand what it is like to get up at 4am when my dad would go to his job and him coming home at 7pm, bone tired and pissed off at the world, making it hard to talk about anything. So that too I can understand what he means. Especially when talking to suburban white nuclear families with a mother (or father if thats what they do) who gets to stay home and be there fully for their kids.

So yeah I can see how Biden saying that as a white guy may seem callaus as shit when taken out of context, but my experiences also let me understand what he is saying, even if he is not the best person by a mile to be the one saying it. Fortunately the President doesn't have to understand every single issue as long as he cares and has the ability to listen to the people who are the best people.
Ah man Londonfog is awesome why don’t you go for some fascist who wants to kill your family and wipe his ass on your diplomas, known thine enemy man.
 
Top