Elizabeth Warren

[Fogdog]

The Koch's did the research for us. M4A saves trillions over time.

mmhumm

thought so. no references cited. Nothing behind your opinion other than your belief.

Regarding unfounded beliefs,

Plasma beings. Tell us about plasma beings.

 

[londonfog]

I've never said that. How about you calming down and breaking my reasons for disliking Bernie as a DNC presidential candidate? If you want to just get angry, I'm still going to think you are OK. After you calm down.

I'm not angry. I just sometime cuss like a mother fucking sailor. You vote for whomever you want in the primaries..shit I encourage it, but after that is done FALL THE FUCK IN LINE

 

[abandonconflict]

SO if Bernie wins the primary, you will take your ball and go home ? Grow the fuck up

I'm not trying to get in on Fogdog's argument (he's capable of defending his own statements) that a vote for Bernie in the primary is a vote for Trump but one in 8 people in 2016 did think that apparently. Fully 12 percent of all of those who voted for Bernie in that primary went on to vote for Trump in the general. Apparently, those were just Banana Republicans who voted against Hillary int he primary. Much of the moronic perception that "Bernie would have won", actually stems from that.

I am opposed to the notion of "falling in line" though. If I feel that my voice is stronger in abstinence than in falling in line, I will abstain. The EC will ensure my state goes blue anyway.

 

[Shua1991]

Would ‘Medicare for All’ really save money?

We invited experts to cut through one of the biggest campaign claims about single-payer health care — and what might really work.

www.politico.com

 

[Shua1991]

I'm not trying to get in on Fogdog's argument (he's capable of defending his own statements) that a vote for Bernie in the primary is a vote for Trump but one in 8 people in 2016 did think that apparently. Fully 12 percent of all of those who voted for Bernie in that primary went on to vote for Trump in the general. Apparently, those were just Banana Republicans who voted against Hillary int he primary. Much of the moronic perception that "Bernie would have won", actually stems from that.

I am opposed to the notion of "falling in line" though. If I feel that my voice is stronger in abstinence than in falling in line, I will abstain. The EC will ensure my state goes blue anyway.

More people voted for McCain that were Hillary supporters than Bernie supporters did trump, these are facts.

The Bernie voters who defected to Trump, explained by a political scientist

A new study found that about 12 percent of Sanders voters from the primary supported Trump in the general election.

www.google.com

Hillary's crowd are basically Republicans who can stomach queer folk.

She was a Goldwater girl in her youth

 

[londonfog]

I'm not trying to get in on Fogdog's argument (he's capable of defending his own statements) that a vote for Bernie in the primary is a vote for Trump but one in 8 people in 2016 did think that apparently. Fully 12 percent of all of those who voted for Bernie in that primary went on to vote for Trump in the general. Apparently, those were just Banana Republicans who voted against Hillary int he primary. Much of the moronic perception that "Bernie would have won", actually stems from that.

I am opposed to the notion of "falling in line" though. If I feel that my voice is stronger in abstinence than in falling in line, I will abstain. The EC will ensure my state goes blue anyway.

Now that thinking will surly get you Trump. " My man did not win so I'm not voting "

Before I do that I ask myself. Is this person still better than Trump or worst ? Then I take my ass out and vote.

 

[PJ Diaz]

I'm not trying to get in on Fogdog's argument (he's capable of defending his own statements) that a vote for Bernie in the primary is a vote for Trump but one in 8 people in 2016 did think that apparently. Fully 12 percent of all of those who voted for Bernie in that primary went on to vote for Trump in the general. Apparently, those were just Banana Republicans who voted against Hillary int he primary. Much of the moronic perception that "Bernie would have won", actually stems from that.

I am opposed to the notion of "falling in line" though. If I feel that my voice is stronger in abstinence than in falling in line, I will abstain. The EC will ensure my state goes blue anyway.

Just to add some more clarity to your statement, 13% of those who voted for Obama in 2012 voted for Trump in 2016. Are you gonna blame Obama supporters for Trump's victory too?

 

[Shua1991]

Now that thinking will surly get you Trump. " My man did not win so I'm not voting "

Before I do that I ask myself. Is this person still better than Trump or worst ? Then I take my ass out and vote.

Vote with your heart in the primary and your head during the general.

 

[londonfog]

Vote with your heart in the primary and your head during the general.

My vote is going to Warren in the Primary

 

[Shua1991]

My vote is going to Warren in the Primary

She's better than almost all of them. I doubt ayana pressley would have endorsed her if she weren't. My only fear is the establishment make another Obama out of her. More covert wars, more drug war, more of the same. I think she should have ran in the 2015 primary, Bernie begged her to challenge Hillary and she declined.

 

[abandonconflict]

Thanks to the Koch Brothers, We Have More Proof that Single Payer Saves Money and Cares for All of Us

A study that was intended to make the case against Medicare for All reveals that the reform could save Americans trillions of dollars.

www.thenation.com

The problem with cherry picking is that it leaves out the important stuff. You're late to this debate. It has gone on for months. You're demanding that we rehash complicated arguments just for you. There are dozens of threads dedicated to single-payer. Please don't be an ass hole and derail anymore threads. It's one of the reasons we're sick of Bernouts around here.

Here, now that you have derailed my Warren thread to talk about something I have argued in a dozen other threads (you fucking troll) I will still give you an argument to disprove your bullshit so you can ignore and disregard it (you fucking troll).

Bernie's braindead bill includes funding for about half of the cost. That cost (for the sake of argument we'll actually accept Bernie's estimate even though industry experts give much higher estimates) is 32.6 trillion dollars in the first ten years. The entire federal budget for 2019 was about 3.26 trillion dollars. That literally means that all government spending on roads, the military, the FBI, education, the environment, parks and services, etc would become deficit spending while repealing Trump's tax cuts would not even cover the current deficit. That kind of debt would actually bring about the collapse of the United States.

Bernie's novel tax idea to stick it to the ultra-wealthy are fantastic and should be implemented no matter how the country moves forward with healthcare. The thing is, current healthcare costs are not paid by the government. It is not actually in everyone's best interests to have their taxes drastically increased for far more coverage than they need or want. Some of us would actually prefer to have copays and deductibles and less coverage and just pay a premium to a private insurer.

The way forward is to get everyone covered first. Don't fucking tell me "Canada does it so we can too". This subject has been heavily debated and we don't need another thread derailed everytime a dumbfuck like you finds our site.

 

[Shua1991]

The problem with cherry picking is that it leaves out the important stuff. You're late to this debate. It has gone on for months. You're demanding that we rehash complicated arguments just for you. There are dozens of threads dedicated to single-payer. Please don't be an ass hole and derail anymore threads. It's one of the reasons we're sick of Bernouts around here.

Here, now that you have derailed my Warren thread to talk about something I have argued in a dozen other threads (you fucking troll) I will still give you an argument to disprove your bullshit so you can ignore and disregard it (you fucking troll).

Bernie's braindead bill includes funding for about half of the cost. That cost (for the sake of argument we'll actually accept Bernie's estimate even though industry experts give much higher estimates) is 32.6 trillion dollars in the first ten years. The entire federal budget for 2019 was about 3.26 trillion dollars. That literally means that all government spending on roads, the military, the FBI, education, the environment, parks and services, etc would become deficit spending while repealing Trump's tax cuts would not even cover the current deficit. That kind of debt would actually bring about the collapse of the United States.

Bernie's novel tax idea to stick it to the ultra-wealthy are fantastic and should be implemented no matter how the country moves forward with healthcare. The thing is, current healthcare costs are not paid by the government. It is not actually in everyone's best interests to have their taxes drastically increased for far more coverage than they need or want. Some of us would actually prefer to have copays and deductibles and less coverage and just pay a premium to a private insurer.

The way forward is to get everyone covered first. Don't fucking tell me "Canada does it so we can too". This subject has been heavily debated and we don't need another thread derailed everytime a dumbfuck like you finds our site.

Lol I've been on rollitup longer than you my dude. This is just a new account I use after losing the password to my old one. I've been visiting here since 08, this place was never this toxic until 2015 when the neoliberal minds went haywire. Y'all actually thought Hillary was gonna win, it makes me wonder how useless your conversations on this forum are. Watch the upcoming months, Biden will dwindle and the beolibs will get desperate to take a few of his percentage points during the voting period, either the progressives join up and get a half decent candidate, or we lose another generation to Republicans.

 

[abandonconflict]

Just to add some more clarity to your statement, 13% of those who voted for Obama in 2012 voted for Trump in 2016. Are you gonna blame Obama supporters for Trump's victory too?

What a stupid argument. 2012 and 2016 were not the same election. My argument was 2016 primary vs 2016 general. It clearly indicates that those 1 in 8 people who voted Bernie in that primary did not in fact support Bernie or any democrat. They voted in the dem primary and gave their support to Bernie simply to influence the primary. It means two things, first, that Bernie did not have nearly as much support as you thought and second it means that 1 in 8 bernouts are toxic fucking alt-right racists.

 

[londonfog]

She's better than almost all of them. I doubt ayana pressley would have endorsed her if she weren't. My only fear is the establishment make another Obama out of her. More covert wars, more drug war, more of the same. I think she should have ran in the 2015 primary, Bernie begged her to challenge Hillary and she declined.

and Biden will sell us out to appease some Repukes

 

[PJ Diaz]

The problem with cherry picking is that it leaves out the important stuff. You're late to this debate. It has gone on for months. You're demanding that we rehash complicated arguments just for you. There are dozens of threads dedicated to single-payer. Please don't be an ass hole and derail anymore threads. It's one of the reasons we're sick of Bernouts around here.

Here, now that you have derailed my Warren thread to talk about something I have argued in a dozen other threads (you fucking troll) I will still give you an argument to disprove your bullshit so you can ignore and disregard it (you fucking troll).

Bernie's braindead bill includes funding for about half of the cost. That cost (for the sake of argument we'll actually accept Bernie's estimate even though industry experts give much higher estimates) is 32.6 trillion dollars in the first ten years. The entire federal budget for 2019 was about 3.26 trillion dollars. That literally means that all government spending on roads, the military, the FBI, education, the environment, parks and services, etc would become deficit spending while repealing Trump's tax cuts would not even cover the current deficit. That kind of debt would actually bring about the collapse of the United States.

Bernie's novel tax idea to stick it to the ultra-wealthy are fantastic and should be implemented no matter how the country moves forward with healthcare. The thing is, current healthcare costs are not paid by the government. It is not actually in everyone's best interests to have their taxes drastically increased for far more coverage than they need or want. Some of us would actually prefer to have copays and deductibles and less coverage and just pay a premium to a private insurer.

The way forward is to get everyone covered first. Don't fucking tell me "Canada does it so we can too". This subject has been heavily debated and we don't need another thread derailed everytime a dumbfuck like you finds our site.

You're ignoring the fact that his 4% M4A premium alone will bring in around $15 billion over the course of those first 10 years, and the additional tax increases on those who make over $250k a year will help to shore up the rest of the gap.

 

[Shua1991]

and Biden will sell us out to appease some Repukes

I agree. Warren is in some ways the appeasement candidate for the Dems. I hope she or Bernie wins, but I've been watching polling and rallies where she just doesn't have the ground support or outreach. If she were smart, she would go to the end and then give her delegates to Bernie or vice versa if he fails. It's those two vs the rest.

 

[abandonconflict]

You're ignoring the fact that his 4% M4A premium alone will bring in around $15 billion over the course of those first 10 years, and the additional tax increases on those who make over $250k a year will help to shore up the rest of the gap.

No, I'm not ignoring shit. $15B is nothing. read my post again, I did not misspell billion, that number is in the trillions, but you idiots just love derailing threads to talk about something that has been repeatedly discredited.

 

[abandonconflict]

Hillary

Clinton is irrelevant, this is 2020, try to keep up, dumbass.

 

[Shua1991]

No, I'm not ignoring shit. $15B is nothing. read my post again, I did not misspell billion, that number is in the trillions, but you idiots just love derailing threads to talk about something that has been repeatedly discredited.

Lol, you hath spoken, now everyone LISTEN! He's the arbiter of facts.

 

[Shua1991]

Clinton is irrelevant

You just made my happy. Now look what you've done?