"Progressive" Congresswomen Start To Show Their Stripes

[Padawanbater2]

For anybody to claim that progress never has setbacks is simply ridiculous.

If incrementalism brought some temporary change only to be overturned by the next administration, what was it actually worth?

Now we're back where we started before Obama because of Trump

How do you sell that to voters moving forward? How do you convince voters to vote for you by only offering more incremental change? Why should they believe you when the next administration can just overturn it like Trump did?

 

[UncleBuck]

we're back where we started before Obama because of Trump

they finally repealed obamacare?

when did that happen?

 

[Unclebaldrick]

If incrementalism brought some temporary change only to be overturned by the next administration, what was it actually worth?

Now we're back where we started before Obama because of Trump

How do you sell that to voters moving forward? How do you convince voters to vote for you by only offering more incremental change? Why should they believe you when the next administration can just overturn it like Trump did?

It is good to finally hear that you favor dictatorship. We already knew that.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Incremental change is a slight deviation from supporting corporate America..

..People don't support a slight deviation from supporting corporate America.. they support a policy that eliminates corporate America from the equation completely..

You support politicians who support the status quo that ensures working class Americans earn less than they're actually worth, don't be surprised when those same working class Americans don't support you. I support giving people every cent they've earned that they're actually worth.

Incremental change ensures exploitation of labor

 

[Unclebaldrick]

Nonsense.

 

[UncleBuck]

Nonsense.

establishment establishment corporate. neoliberal incremental. progressive revolution. neoliberal establishment corporate.

i have won the ebate

 

[Unclebaldrick]

establishment establishment corporate. neoliberal incremental. progressive revolution. neoliberal establishment corporate.

i have won the ebate

People like this earn the scorn of most of America. They would ensure the re-election of Trump.

 

[hanimmal]

Incremental change is a slight deviation from supporting corporate America..

..People don't support a slight deviation from supporting corporate America.. they support a policy that eliminates corporate America from the equation completely..

You support politicians who support the status quo that ensures working class Americans earn less than they're actually worth, don't be surprised when those same working class Americans don't support you. I support giving people every cent they've earned that they're actually worth.

Incremental change ensures exploitation of labor

Corporate America, is still filled with Americans who have a right to pursue their happiness. I don't buy the stagnation theory so much. I think a lot of the time from the 50's on was people moving from apartments with their families to suburbs in a new house as roads and utilities started to spread out.

Basically as more people become part of the population and move into the middle class, its greatly adding to the wealth/annual salary of this middle class. Moving from 'poor' to 'middle class' is a lot easier than moving from 'middle class' to 'rich', so it makes sense that while the middle class is continuing to grow, after a while the growth rate has to slow and people start to worry how is my kid going to do better than I did. It doesn't mean everything is so bleak though.

 

[Fogdog]

Corporate America, is still filled with Americans who have a right to pursue their happiness. I don't buy the stagnation theory so much. I think a lot of the time from the 50's on was people moving from apartments with their families to suburbs in a new house as roads and utilities started to spread out.

Basically as more people become part of the population and move into the middle class, its greatly adding to the wealth/annual salary of this middle class. Moving from 'poor' to 'middle class' is a lot easier than moving from 'middle class' to 'rich', so it makes sense that while the middle class is continuing to grow, after a while the growth rate has to slow and people start to worry how is my kid going to do better than I did. It doesn't mean everything is so bleak though.

I don't know what you are citing that says mobility into the middle class is easier than in yesteryears or that the middle classes are growing. I keep seeing articles like this that say otherwise:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-the-middle-class-is-shrinking-2019-04-12

The middle class is shrinking, stagnating, and becoming less secure, even as the world enters the 10th year of economic growth and the U.S. experiences a decade-long bull market, according to a report, “Under Pressure: The Squeezed Middle Class,” released this month by the Paris-based Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development.

Real, disposable incomes for the middle class have not grown since the middle of last decade, while incomes for the top 10% are hitting new highs, the OECD calculates. This isn’t how it always works. In the previous decade, from the mid-1990s to the mid-2000s, median real disposable incomes rose by about 17% in richer countries.

The middle classes are getting squeezed particularly hard by the rising costs of education, health care and housing, the OECD writes. College fees are up, in the U.S. and elsewhere. Homes are much more expensive relative to incomes.

The best one can say is that in the past few years, US middle class went up by one percent compared to 2011 but really, that's just putting lipstick on a pig. US middle class lost ground in a big way over the past few decades and to say it's growing "because 1% up in 2016" is simply cherry picking through data that is otherwise dismal.

Some good news for Americans: The shrinking of America’s middle class may have finally ground to a halt. Just over half (52%) of American adults lived in middle-class households in 2016, up slightly from 51% in 2011, but down from 54% in 2001 and 61% in 1971, according to recent data released by the Pew Research Center, a nonprofit think tank in Washington, D.C.

 

[Fogdog]

If incrementalism brought some temporary change only to be overturned by the next administration, what was it actually worth?

Now we're back where we started before Obama because of Trump

How do you sell that to voters moving forward? How do you convince voters to vote for you by only offering more incremental change? Why should they believe you when the next administration can just overturn it like Trump did?

If you are for Bernie then you are for no progress. Bernie hasn't done anything notable as a Senator more than a decade at that post.

Don't make me laugh by citing the crap he's done moonlighting outside of his day job as Senator. Like "he fixed some chairs at Walgreen's" and "he poured some latte's at Starbucks" as if his job as Senator is too hard. LOL.

 

[Padawanbater2]

If you are for Bernie then you are for no progress. Bernie hasn't done anything notable as a Senator more than a decade at that post.

You're trying to hold Sanders accountable for fighting for the right side of every issue that didn't get passed since the 1970s

In other words, you're not commending Sanders for being on the right side of the issue, instead, you're holding him politically responsible for everyone else who chose to vote against him

Don't make me laugh by citing the crap he's done moonlighting outside of his day job as Senator.

Do you think the 350K Amazon workers, the 300K Disney workers, or the immeasurable amount of fast food workers all across the country that Sanders and Justice Democrats earned an actual living wage for feel the same way?

He can't accomplish much in his day job, you agree. This is because most of his colleagues are bought by the same big interests Sanders and co. are fighting against. So they have to think outside the box. It's interesting that when they do, and they actually end up accomplishing progressive policies those within the Democratic party support, people like you condemn their efforts..

Like "he fixed some chairs at Walgreen's" and "he poured some latte's at Starbucks" as if his job as Senator is too hard. LOL.

So getting bills passed, regardless of their context, is the most important feature to the success of congressmen/women, to you. Got it.

 

[Fogdog]

You're trying to hold Sanders accountable for fighting for the right side of every issue that didn't get passed since the 1970s

In other words, you're not commending Sanders for being on the right side of the issue, instead, you're holding him politically responsible for everyone else who chose to vote against him

Do you think the 350K Amazon workers, the 300K Disney workers, or the immeasurable amount of fast food workers all across the country that Sanders and Justice Democrats earned an actual living wage for feel the same way?

He can't accomplish much in his day job, you agree. This is because most of his colleagues are bought by the same big interests Sanders and co. are fighting against. So they have to think outside the box. It's interesting that when they do, and they actually end up accomplishing progressive policies those within the Democratic party support, people like you condemn their efforts..

So getting bills passed, regardless of their context, is the most important feature to the success of congressmen/women, to you. Got it.

Relative to Sanders, Oregon's Junior Senator has submitted and gotten passed infinitely more bills than Sanders has.

You (hehehe) talk of "incremental" legislation as if the ACA were "incremental" when Benie has done ZERO as a legislator. Do the math. The five or so important environmental protection bills that Merkely submitted is infinitely more productive than what Sanders has (hehehe) gotten (heheheh) done.

Warren has been even more productive than Merkely. She's also destroying Sanders in the primary too. Funny how you never mention her. Is she the enemy now?

Sanders should go do his moonlighting jobs full time and let somebody who actually CAN work with others be infinitely more productive than Bernie ever has been as a legislator..

 

[hanimmal]

I don't know what you are citing that says mobility into the middle class is easier than in yesteryears or that the middle classes are growing. I keep seeing articles like this that say otherwise:

I might not have explained well, I am not saying anything about it being easier today to move into the middle class.

51% of population (311 million) in 2011 is:158,610,000
54% of population (285 million) in 2001 is:153,900,000
or a pick up of 4,710,000 people in the middle class during those 10 years. It might be a different number than population because without looking it up I am not sure if they mean working age or total population with the 'middle class' but you get the gist.

61% in 1971 (population 207million) is: 126,270,000.

The actual amount of people moving into the middle class keeps increasing. And if the real wages are staying level, individuals inside the middle class might not be doing better, but overall the middle class is still growing.

 

[blu3bird]

Incremental change is a slight deviation from supporting corporate America..

..People don't support a slight deviation from supporting corporate America.. they support a policy that eliminates corporate America from the equation completely..

You support politicians who support the status quo that ensures working class Americans earn less than they're actually worth, don't be surprised when those same working class Americans don't support you. I support giving people every cent they've earned that they're actually worth.

Incremental change ensures exploitation of labor

And people don't support radical extremism like you constantly try to push

I believe eventually you'll get it through your head, maybe when Bernie is embarrassed again andl loses the nomination

 

[Unclebaldrick]

And people don't support radical extremism like you constantly try to push

I believe eventually you'll get it through your head, maybe when Bernie is embarrassed again andl loses the nomination

No chance. There is no outcome not coronating St. Bernie that they will not claim is rigged.

 

[Padawanbater2]

And people don't support radical extremism like you constantly try to push

Pragmatic universal programs look radical to extremists

 

[Unclebaldrick]

Pragmatic universal programs look radical to extremists

It must hurt you that that is their perception by 80 or so percent of the population. No wonder you hate democracy and want to form a dictatorship so that your perspective can override the majority.

 

[Fogdog]

Pragmatic universal programs look radical to extremists

Sanders bill is an incomplete plan. I expect better from my lawmakers than to force people into a medical plan that so badly planned out that the CBO can't even estimate how much it will cost and has no method of payment.

How will the medicare system cope with adding more than 250 million people onto its rolls? Where are the plans for how to increase the size administration for Medicare? How much will THAT cost? Why hasn't Bernie done more to prepare for this radical change in the size and scope of Medicare? Instead of trying to address the gaping holes in Bernie's plans, you and your kind complain about people pointing them out.

Warren said there are other ways to bring about this kind of change in our healthcare system. Why aren't you talking about Elizabeth Warren anymore? Is she the enemy now?

 

[Fogdog]

I might not have explained well, I am not saying anything about it being easier today to move into the middle class.

51% of population (311 million) in 2011 is:158,610,000
54% of population (285 million) in 2001 is:153,900,000
or a pick up of 4,710,000 people in the middle class during those 10 years. It might be a different number than population because without looking it up I am not sure if they mean working age or total population with the 'middle class' but you get the gist.

61% in 1971 (population 207million) is: 126,270,000.

The actual amount of people moving into the middle class keeps increasing. And if the real wages are staying level, individuals inside the middle class might not be doing better, but overall the middle class is still growing.

That is certainly an interesting way to look at the situation. The other side of the coin is that there are many millions more working poor too. Simply looking at raw numbers doesn't tell us much about how the middle and lower classes have fared economically. The share in the middle and working class's wealth of this nation did not track with the growth in wealth of this nation. Housing, medical, and education costs have all outstripped official inflation numbers. Yet wages for most have tracked official inflation. Proportionally fewer millenials are doing as well as their parents did a generation ago. Their numbers are increasing too. Why should one care about the raw number of middle class when parents see how few of their children are on track to replicate or surpass their own conditions?

 

[hanimmal]

That is certainly an interesting way to look at the situation. The other side of the coin is that there are many millions more working poor too. Simply looking at raw numbers doesn't tell us much about how the middle and lower classes have fared economically. The share in the middle and working class's wealth of this nation did not track with the growth in wealth of this nation. Housing, medical, and education costs have all outstripped official inflation numbers. Yet wages for most have tracked official inflation. Proportionally fewer millenials are doing as well as their parents did a generation ago. Their numbers are increasing too. Why should one care about the raw number of middle class when parents see how few of their children are on track to replicate or surpass their own conditions?

A lot of the millennial's are poised to take over a lot of the middle management type roles that the baby boomers are now starting to vacate. There will be a lot of shuffling around, but they will have a lot more experience in their fields and be better able to use tech. I am not sure about the numbers in college/internships, but millennials lost id guess 5-8 years experience in the workforce than my generation (born in the 70s) and older.

With everything (lumber for houses, gas in transportation (pollution/costs), cheap plastics, etc) becoming more expensive because we finally are figuring out we need to also consider what a item we make does to the entire environment over its entire half-life. Millennials and younger are really becoming responsible, I really think when they start taking over they will do a good job.