drgreenbreeze
Active Member
Which Hydro system do you think is best and why?
Ebb&Flow, DWC, Drip system, NFT, Aeroponics, Bubbleponics, Autopot.
Ebb&Flow, DWC, Drip system, NFT, Aeroponics, Bubbleponics, Autopot.
Hydroponic Poll
- Thread starter drgreenbreeze
- Start date
drgreenbreeze
Active Member
so what you saying is any system will do? 
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
All any hydro system does is water the plants. The main difference is in how much oxygen can be introduced to the roots, but the yield difference between the systems best capable of getting dissolved O2 to the roots and those which deliver the least is minimal.
Systems with no media (aero, DWC) or with low-absorbency media (flood system with pots of pellets) can be watered frequently if not continuously with nute soln that has been oxygenated by an air pump driving an air stone in the nute tank. However, with low-absorbency or no media, there's no backup water supply for the plants in case of a water pump or timer failure. DWC systems have a particular Achilles' heel in that roots are kept constantly submerged and will drown without a constant air supply. A power failure lasting more than a few hours can kill plants in a DWC.
Tray-based flood systems are the simplest and most reliable as they cannot clog, are easy to clean and have minimal plumbing. The type of media selected determines how often you can water. If you stuff pots with rockwool, plants can only be watered 1x/lights-on in most cases, but RW will store enough water to get the plants through a day or so in case of a watering system failure. Plants in pots of pellets can be watered 5x/lights-on, but there's little stored water for backup. Compromises are Fytocell or perlite, which don't hold as much water as RW, but more than pellets. Semi-absorbent media can be watered 2-3x/lights-on.
However, there's no massive yield differences between the lower root oxygenation method of using pots of RW in a flood sys and aero/NFT, which get the most O2 to the roots possible, when oxygen is only obtained via an air stone in the nute tank. At best, the gain for high root oxygenation methods would be on the order of 10-15%. However, if applying H2O2 regularly in the nute soln, even flood systems with plants in pots of RW get very high amounts of dissolved O2 to the roots. H2O2 is used mainly for pathogen control; the release of O2 to the roots is just a bonus, but a very big one.
The winner is the most reliable system that is easiest to maintain. Flood systems win the reliability contest hands-down. More complex systems are more prone to failure and harder to maintain. Loss of plants due to a watering system failure negates any yield benefit from complex systems.
Systems with no media (aero, DWC) or with low-absorbency media (flood system with pots of pellets) can be watered frequently if not continuously with nute soln that has been oxygenated by an air pump driving an air stone in the nute tank. However, with low-absorbency or no media, there's no backup water supply for the plants in case of a water pump or timer failure. DWC systems have a particular Achilles' heel in that roots are kept constantly submerged and will drown without a constant air supply. A power failure lasting more than a few hours can kill plants in a DWC.
Tray-based flood systems are the simplest and most reliable as they cannot clog, are easy to clean and have minimal plumbing. The type of media selected determines how often you can water. If you stuff pots with rockwool, plants can only be watered 1x/lights-on in most cases, but RW will store enough water to get the plants through a day or so in case of a watering system failure. Plants in pots of pellets can be watered 5x/lights-on, but there's little stored water for backup. Compromises are Fytocell or perlite, which don't hold as much water as RW, but more than pellets. Semi-absorbent media can be watered 2-3x/lights-on.
However, there's no massive yield differences between the lower root oxygenation method of using pots of RW in a flood sys and aero/NFT, which get the most O2 to the roots possible, when oxygen is only obtained via an air stone in the nute tank. At best, the gain for high root oxygenation methods would be on the order of 10-15%. However, if applying H2O2 regularly in the nute soln, even flood systems with plants in pots of RW get very high amounts of dissolved O2 to the roots. H2O2 is used mainly for pathogen control; the release of O2 to the roots is just a bonus, but a very big one.
The winner is the most reliable system that is easiest to maintain. Flood systems win the reliability contest hands-down. More complex systems are more prone to failure and harder to maintain. Loss of plants due to a watering system failure negates any yield benefit from complex systems.
grow1
Well-Known Member
i use dwc and have had my power go out for 4 hours and my plants were fine. as long as you can keep your water temps below 75F it should be able to store enough of oxygen to last u through a simple power outage. now if your power goes out for like a day or more you will have serios problems in dwc. the key to success is to check ur ress as oftenas possible,at least twice daily.that way if you notice something wrong, like air pump stoped working,you should have plenty of time to correct
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
good data, g1. 
Someone pointed out an air pump with battery backup to me some time ago, damned if I can find it now. The thing was good for 28h of backup on reduced airflow, but it still pumps air.
Someone pointed out an air pump with battery backup to me some time ago, damned if I can find it now. The thing was good for 28h of backup on reduced airflow, but it still pumps air.
sparkafire
Well-Known Member
100% spot on!!That's easy! The best system is the one that you can grow good buds in.
Just read the threads in this section and you will find that everyone has their own way.
Its just how much you research and learn from mistakes that makes a great system.
mrbuzzsaw
Well-Known Member
the thread was going nicely and you took a sharp left turn.huh?, did i miss something, what did i do?
Eharmony420
Well-Known Member
Whoa, i can help AL? No frickin way. Maybe i just tired and read wrong. Battery backup airpumps are on the shelves at my local petshop. No big deal at all there and they are cheap. You wouldnt want your fish to die, hehe!
drgreenbreeze
Active Member
OK Thanks for all those reply's relating to the subject, you know who you are!
holmes
Well-Known Member
it was just a question, dont understand why the whole thread has to come to a screetching halt for it.
anyway, i like you would want to maximize productivity witout sacrificing quality.
I have no experience growing, im a new guy doing my homework. Im torn between a few setups. I think my preference would be to try aeroponics, becuase it is potentially the best way to grow, if there were no power failure concerns, or nutrient stability issues(then againg, i think if you run to waste, you wont have ph issues, right?)
here is some info on my aeroponic dream setup, it is very expensive, but i would just order the compenents needed to run it, and if you order in bulk, the price per component is reduced. here is the manufactures website, an artical on aeroponics, and a grow journal.
Atomix Aeroponics Systems from Aeroculture Limited. Authentic aeroponics.
http://www.urbangardenmagazine.com/index.php?id=74http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=78330
pros: faster growth rates, less nutrient usage, less plants producing more, which is best if the worst happens. in a 4x4 under one 1 thousand watt, you could put 8 plants, each getting 2 square feet, that is approximatly what g-love had on his first run(if you read the uk420 article) and he averaged 9 ounces per plant, thats approximatly 72 oz.
on a flood and drain you would need to have 64 cuttings on the same 4x4 producing about 1.25 oz
cons: if it doesnt live up to those figures, it was a very expensive waste of time, also power failure and nutrient issues.
Now, sea of green, thanks to al, we all know how it works, great reliable setup, super easy( once you get the hang of cuttings and timing and what your plant needs)
But it doesnt maximize the output of your lamp, now you have to mess with reflectors and media, if you want to use high end nutes ex: advanced nutrients, canna, house and garden. it can get quite expensive filling up several hundred liters every week. My sea of green contender would be the coliseum
Hydroponics Farming and Gardening -MHE-Mini Module
i couldnt find much on this, not many people have used it to grow. Also quite damn expensive for plastic, but it does come with pump and fittings etc.
It is a drip setup, and you can stack it as high as you want. Im looking at the mini modules in particular, with two stacked up, you can light it with one 1000w, you can fit 60-120 plants in there.
pros- light efficiency, no reflectors, i would put a cool tube on it, that would probably give you a little more grow room to the manufactures suggested max of 2 feet. yes it is the same amount of plants in the 4x4 flood, but it looks like to me that each has more room, if you alternate hole like im thinking each plant will get approximatly 2 gallons of media to grow in, i think 1.5 oz is realistic here ( i could be wrong) that comes to 90 oz per unit ( well per pair of minis using one one thousand watt). it is more reliable becuase you can use the media of your choice, it is also suited for aero, but i wouldnt waste my time with it. they come in semi circles that you can move apart, if you build a base on wheels, it will be easy to open up an prune and check your specimens.
cons- its expensive, its a drip so its prone to clogging, again if it doesnt work out, then its another expensive waste of time, it has quite a few peices so it will take a while to put together. and i know some people will say you can build something similar, all i have to say is that it wont get close enough, it would require a lot of work, and for those who can say fuck it and just spend the dough, i would much rather, its not like making your own flood table in an hour or less you could be done
so now back to the root of this thread, i think aero is the best setup, true aero that is, the one i highlighted. it seems like it can have a lot of potential, and the only issues are power failure, which hardly ever happens in my neck of the woods, and ph stability, which i think can be solved by running to waste. plus you cant beat the fact you can get more done with less plants, you cant beat that with a hammer. The coliseum, or al's flood tables require a lot of mothers, and a lot of cuttings, and a lot of media, a lot of work. I dont want al mad at me so i cant stress it enough that his is tried and proved, it works. but i want more
but then again i think too much, and i have had no prior experience, so does my opinion really count
i hope this satisfies some of the people i pissed off, but i doubt it.
anyway, i like you would want to maximize productivity witout sacrificing quality.
I have no experience growing, im a new guy doing my homework. Im torn between a few setups. I think my preference would be to try aeroponics, becuase it is potentially the best way to grow, if there were no power failure concerns, or nutrient stability issues(then againg, i think if you run to waste, you wont have ph issues, right?)
here is some info on my aeroponic dream setup, it is very expensive, but i would just order the compenents needed to run it, and if you order in bulk, the price per component is reduced. here is the manufactures website, an artical on aeroponics, and a grow journal.
Atomix Aeroponics Systems from Aeroculture Limited. Authentic aeroponics.
http://www.urbangardenmagazine.com/index.php?id=74http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=78330
pros: faster growth rates, less nutrient usage, less plants producing more, which is best if the worst happens. in a 4x4 under one 1 thousand watt, you could put 8 plants, each getting 2 square feet, that is approximatly what g-love had on his first run(if you read the uk420 article) and he averaged 9 ounces per plant, thats approximatly 72 oz.
on a flood and drain you would need to have 64 cuttings on the same 4x4 producing about 1.25 oz
cons: if it doesnt live up to those figures, it was a very expensive waste of time, also power failure and nutrient issues.
Now, sea of green, thanks to al, we all know how it works, great reliable setup, super easy( once you get the hang of cuttings and timing and what your plant needs)
But it doesnt maximize the output of your lamp, now you have to mess with reflectors and media, if you want to use high end nutes ex: advanced nutrients, canna, house and garden. it can get quite expensive filling up several hundred liters every week. My sea of green contender would be the coliseum
Hydroponics Farming and Gardening -MHE-Mini Module
i couldnt find much on this, not many people have used it to grow. Also quite damn expensive for plastic, but it does come with pump and fittings etc.
It is a drip setup, and you can stack it as high as you want. Im looking at the mini modules in particular, with two stacked up, you can light it with one 1000w, you can fit 60-120 plants in there.
pros- light efficiency, no reflectors, i would put a cool tube on it, that would probably give you a little more grow room to the manufactures suggested max of 2 feet. yes it is the same amount of plants in the 4x4 flood, but it looks like to me that each has more room, if you alternate hole like im thinking each plant will get approximatly 2 gallons of media to grow in, i think 1.5 oz is realistic here ( i could be wrong) that comes to 90 oz per unit ( well per pair of minis using one one thousand watt). it is more reliable becuase you can use the media of your choice, it is also suited for aero, but i wouldnt waste my time with it. they come in semi circles that you can move apart, if you build a base on wheels, it will be easy to open up an prune and check your specimens.
cons- its expensive, its a drip so its prone to clogging, again if it doesnt work out, then its another expensive waste of time, it has quite a few peices so it will take a while to put together. and i know some people will say you can build something similar, all i have to say is that it wont get close enough, it would require a lot of work, and for those who can say fuck it and just spend the dough, i would much rather, its not like making your own flood table in an hour or less you could be done
so now back to the root of this thread, i think aero is the best setup, true aero that is, the one i highlighted. it seems like it can have a lot of potential, and the only issues are power failure, which hardly ever happens in my neck of the woods, and ph stability, which i think can be solved by running to waste. plus you cant beat the fact you can get more done with less plants, you cant beat that with a hammer. The coliseum, or al's flood tables require a lot of mothers, and a lot of cuttings, and a lot of media, a lot of work. I dont want al mad at me so i cant stress it enough that his is tried and proved, it works. but i want more
but then again i think too much, and i have had no prior experience, so does my opinion really count
i hope this satisfies some of the people i pissed off, but i doubt it.
holmes
Well-Known Member
two of those links arent working right ill try again
Urban Garden Magazine | Peering Through The Mist - Aeroponics Explained
Board Message
Urban Garden Magazine | Peering Through The Mist - Aeroponics Explained
Board Message
illusionz1
Well-Known Member
I like drip for veg and ebb for flower!
anotherchance
New Member
if its easy to clean then thats a good start cause if it aint......
onthedl0008
Well-Known Member
Wow!Comment on original quote listed in thread..... Just in my experience i have found that dwc is the most proficient if done right! And It seems to be the easiest especially for someone just getting into hydro and after you get the hang of it, i guess u can try experimenting with water levels and such.
Ive found that dwc kinda grasps all the the hydro styles and puts them into one!
U get ur a/g by simply placing enuff air stones in the reservoir.When ur water gets low the bubbles bubble up on ur roots, pop and spray them with nutes and water.And i guess flooding ur system happens when U add water to replace the water ur plants have used up. I dunno but I have found that if u flush more often than suggested, u are giving ur plants a constant supply of needed water, and not really wasting nutes because u are making them eat the nutes prior to water changes by letting ur water levels lower, ur plants are actually absorbing the nutrients ur feeding, and by changing ur water frequently u are always working with fresh water in the reservoir as well. which to me seems like a balanced flow of all the best techniques combined thast make sense for ur grow.
Ive found that dwc kinda grasps all the the hydro styles and puts them into one!
U get ur a/g by simply placing enuff air stones in the reservoir.When ur water gets low the bubbles bubble up on ur roots, pop and spray them with nutes and water.And i guess flooding ur system happens when U add water to replace the water ur plants have used up. I dunno but I have found that if u flush more often than suggested, u are giving ur plants a constant supply of needed water, and not really wasting nutes because u are making them eat the nutes prior to water changes by letting ur water levels lower, ur plants are actually absorbing the nutrients ur feeding, and by changing ur water frequently u are always working with fresh water in the reservoir as well. which to me seems like a balanced flow of all the best techniques combined thast make sense for ur grow.
anotherchance
New Member
one vote for aeroponics here