Biden vs Trump

[Khyber420]

Well I disagree. My state will go blue either way so refraining is mitigated and I reserve my right not to support someone. Besides, I would argue that shoving two shitty candidates in our faces was the cause of low turnout in 2016. Furthermore, Clinton is a FAR better candidate than Biden and if she couldn't inspire voters, we're headed for a repeat if it's Biden.

I felt like that when I was I in my early twenties or late teens. Now, for a long list of reasons, I see voting as a responsibility. I know it's cliche, but when democracy falls apart people die in mass quantities. Sometimes both candidates are shit, but it comes down to critically assessing which one is less shit even if only minutely.

 

[abandonconflict]

I felt like that when I was I in my early twenties or late teens. Now, for a long list of reasons, I see voting as a responsibility. I know it's cliche, but when democracy falls apart people die in mass quantities. Sometimes both candidates are shit, but it comes down to critically assessing which one is less shit even if only minutely.

Voting for someone you don't support is not a sign of maturity. Implying that I am immature for having nothing to gain by putting my ballot for the blue guy in a state that will definitely go blue actually just makes you sound very uncritical. If you feel that my rights and interests are not important then you should say so. I will abstain rather than help either side. That's what's going over your head here, in my case, I'm not helping either side by abstaining. I'm not pulling a Berniebro "give us bernie or we'll give you trump" nor am I planning to spend the entire election year denigrating one candidate.

Furthermore, my particular case is different, I don't live in a single place. I am constantly travelling, making absentee ballot even more inconvenient. As for duty, I'm a combat veteran. I don't need to vote for someone I don't like just to feel patriotic. I'm not going to paint with broad strokes, I'm explaining myself in a thread I started but the point of the thread is different. The point is that basically, I'm not convinced Biden can beat Trump.

 

[abandonconflict]

The declarations that “I’ll vote for whoever has “D” behind their name” is you giving carte blanche for the bastards to do it again.

I agree with this, but I also understand those who know they will have to swallow the nasty shit and have already accepted it 4 years in advance. I don't agree, but I understand.

There's a block of voters who are "anyone with a D" vs a block of voters who are fanatical Trump supporters. So basically partisans canceling out partisans. As a nonpartisan voter from a solid blue state, what power I have is neutralized by the EC. Unless I threaten to abstain, then I have people coming to comment.

Also, I have interests of my own.

 

[abandonconflict]

Biden's remarks regarding his work with pro-segregation senators Talmadge and Eastland and using the word "boy" elicited response from Cory Booker. When called out by Senator Cory Booker, the former vice president said that the junior senator from New Jersey should apologize, "there's not a racist bone in my body..." said the former VP. However, Mr Booker didn't call Joe Biden a racist, he corrected him for an insensitive mistake while reiterating his respect.

"You don't joke about calling black men 'boys.' Men like James O. Eastland used words like that, and the racist policies that accompanied them, to perpetuate white supremacy and strip black Americans of our very humanity," Booker said in a statement. "Vice President Biden's relationships with proud segregationists are not the model for how we make America a safer and more inclusive place for black people, and for everyone. I have to tell Vice President Biden, as someone I respect, that he is wrong for using his relationships with Eastland and Talmadge as examples of how to bring our country together," he added. "And frankly, I'm disappointed that he hasn't issued an immediate apology for the pain his words are dredging up for many Americans. He should."

Booker added, "For his posture to be, 'I've done nothing wrong, you should apologize, I'm not a racist,' is so insulting and so missing the larger point that he should not have to have explained to him, that this is not a lesson that someone who is running for president of the united states should have to be given."

 

[zeddd]

Biden's remarks regarding his work with pro-segregation senators Talmadge and Eastland and using the word "boy" elicited response from Cory Booker. When called out by Senator Cory Booker, the former vice president said that the junior senator from New Jersey should apologize, "there's not a racist bone in my body..." said the former VP. However, Mr Booker didn't call Joe Biden a racist, he corrected him for an insensitive mistake while reiterating his respect.

"You don't joke about calling black men 'boys.' Men like James O. Eastland used words like that, and the racist policies that accompanied them, to perpetuate white supremacy and strip black Americans of our very humanity," Booker said in a statement. "Vice President Biden's relationships with proud segregationists are not the model for how we make America a safer and more inclusive place for black people, and for everyone. I have to tell Vice President Biden, as someone I respect, that he is wrong for using his relationships with Eastland and Talmadge as examples of how to bring our country together," he added. "And frankly, I'm disappointed that he hasn't issued an immediate apology for the pain his words are dredging up for many Americans. He should."
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Booker added, "For his posture to be, 'I've done nothing wrong, you should apologize, I'm not a racist,' is so insulting and so missing the larger point that he should not have to have explained to him, that this is not a lesson that someone who is running for president of the united states should have to be given."

When I was a little kid we had an old white lady come to stay from South Africa, it was at a time when apartheid was at its height, she used to talk about boys this and boys that, I was 7 at the time. She said to my mother that the boys at the country club park her cars, so I asked her if I came to visit could I park her car. She said I could eventually probably get a job with the railroad as “coloured people” had potential.
I’m like “mum can we kick this racist cunt out of our trailer”
Mostly true story

 

[hanimmal]

I can respect pragmatism but I have a visceral reaction to some of the shit going on. I suspect your apparent "anyone but Trump" stance is based mostly on what you feel as well but I would not insist such if you disagree.

I'm not overlooking the clear blunders he has made already or the recent fat-lip his campaign suffered from his touchiness. Even if these problems with his image are not deserved, they're there. On a visceral level, I feel like his attempts to unify and calm come off more as putting a nice face on the same policies. In regards to pragmatism, I'm not highly optimistic for him either.

The only time I have seen him use passionate language is in regard to child separation at the border. Don't get me wrong, that's great but to me it says he would try to get a Nobel peace prize while still being the deporter in chief. Please do try to convince me that I'm off-base. He's trying to be like a Bill Clinton or Barack Obama but his image has already been sullied. Couple that with his approach to one of my most important domestic issues and it's just not inspiring me. I'm not trying to convince you to agree with me, I'm just explaining myself and how I feel about it.
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It's only June 2019 though, so now is the time to air this shit, not next year. I could trade my feelings in for pragmatism too if something is offered to me. On the other hand, I have a very strong visceral reaction to the current Traitor in Chief, so I might even just follow my feelings to it.

In any case, I'm yet to be inspired on either a visceral or pragmatic level.

1. At least we know he won't tweet and stir up a bunch of stupid shit just to play tough guy.

2. The president can't really effect our economy that much. Trump is shaking every relationship we have playing tariff wars with everyone and gave the corporations and wealthiest in our country a massive tax break and wants to spend like crazy and leaving us the bill on his own vanity projects.

3. We know Biden is not going to lock children up and turn Mexico into Guantanamo bay v2. We know Biden won't appoint someone to the supreme court that is ready to strip citizens of human rights and allow businesses to use our country as a drain for pollution. There is so much that we do know about him. But best yet we know he won't do rallies every other day to stir up hate to improve his reelection chances. He would be a good one term president to give us a huge collective breath of air and vote for some good candidates in 2024. Give him the chance to expose the Russian/foreign election trolling issue and reopen the departments that Trump cut.

 

[hanimmal]

Yes, well, if anybody wants to pile onto Biden for his odious past and his apparently oblivious current self, I'm not going to fault them. hanimal, for example said he couldn't overlook Biden's legislative record. I couldn't find fault with that.

Your question is a good one and I'll think it over. I really actively dislike Biden and Bernie. Maybe I should lend help to a group that opposes Biden. I'm going to think it over.

I am not sure if I'm reading that right. I really don't know much of his legislative record other than little things from the news here and there. Its impossible to know much without reading the bills and knowing which person put what in, everything gets so diluted I don't feel confident thinking I know anyones true record.

I do want Biden to get the Dem nomination. I like a lot of things about most of the candidates, economically they really can't do anything regardless of how good their message is, Rep will retain the senate, so nothing will be able to get done until at least 2026. But I think Biden can really use this time to let us move forward as a country after the Troll in chief is done ripping us all apart.

 

[hotrodharley]

1. At least we know he won't tweet and stir up a bunch of stupid shit just to play tough guy.

2. The president can't really effect our economy that much. Trump is shaking every relationship we have playing tariff wars with everyone and gave the corporations and wealthiest in our country a massive tax break and wants to spend like crazy and leaving us the bill on his own vanity projects.

3. We know Biden is not going to lock children up and turn Mexico into Guantanamo bay v2. We know Biden won't appoint someone to the supreme court that is ready to strip citizens of human rights and allow businesses to use our country as a drain for pollution. There is so much that we do know about him. But best yet we know he won't do rallies every other day to stir up hate to improve his reelection chances. He would be a good one term president to give us a huge collective breath of air and vote for some good candidates in 2024. Give him the chance to expose the Russian/foreign election trolling issue and reopen the departments that Trump cut.

What Biden will do, simply by virtue of being elected, is set the stage for another right wing “populist”. We need someone to push the entire country to the left in whichever ways possible to prepare for that storm. Because I can assure you it will and if you cannot imagine it being worse than Trump then just hold on because it’s coming.

 

[hotrodharley]

If you’re in an underpowered skiff heading across the bay facing a strong wind from starboard then you must steer to port just to try to hit the point you’re trying for in the middle.

 

[Moses Mobetta]

What Biden will do, simply by virtue of being elected, is set the stage for another right wing “populist”. We need someone to push the entire country to the left in whichever ways possible to prepare for that storm. Because I can assure you it will and if you cannot imagine it being worse than Trump then just hold on because it’s coming.

Just look at wages. Average pay and CEO pay. It's going to continue escalating until something radical happens. The national debt is out of control too. Big time crash/ recession coming.

 

[abandonconflict]

1. At least we know he won't tweet and stir up a bunch of stupid shit just to play tough guy.

2. The president can't really effect our economy that much. Trump is shaking every relationship we have playing tariff wars with everyone and gave the corporations and wealthiest in our country a massive tax break and wants to spend like crazy and leaving us the bill on his own vanity projects.

3. We know Biden is not going to lock children up and turn Mexico into Guantanamo bay v2. We know Biden won't appoint someone to the supreme court that is ready to strip citizens of human rights and allow businesses to use our country as a drain for pollution. There is so much that we do know about him. But best yet we know he won't do rallies every other day to stir up hate to improve his reelection chances. He would be a good one term president to give us a huge collective breath of air and vote for some good candidates in 2024. Give him the chance to expose the Russian/foreign election trolling issue and reopen the departments that Trump cut.

Well I already know he is a little bit better than Trump in every way but I'm not convinced he'll beat Trump and he's certainly not the best option in my opinion. I remain unconvinced but thank you.

 

[hotrodharley]

Well I already know he is a little bit better than Trump in every way but I'm not convinced he'll beat Trump and he's certainly not the best option in my opinion. I remain unconvinced but thank you.

Sir, just about anyone would be better than Trump. Meaning those who have indicated they would run. I looked up his legislative record. His Sentencing Act of 1980 sucks ass. If I were black I’d make him show me how he’s ever helped me before and how he intends to help me AFTER he’s elected. The Democrats have just taken the minority vote as a given.

But again he’s better than any sonofabitch on the right.

 

[Moses Mobetta]

Sir, just about anyone would be better than Trump. Meaning those who have indicated they would run. I looked up his legislative record. His Sentencing Act of 1980 sucks ass. If I were black I’d make him show me how he’s ever helped me before and how he intends to help me AFTER he’s elected. The Democrats have just taken the minority vote as a given.

But again he’s better than any sonofabitch on the right.

A raccoon running for office would be better than any republican

 

[hotrodharley]

A raccoon running for office would be better than any republican

Truthfully as bad as he is I fear the future right wingers far more. The next one will promise his owners that he’ll not hedge or vacillate like Trump has. North Korea won’t negotiate? Bomb them. Guatemala won’t stop people from migrating north? Bomb them. Iran? No matter what bomb them. And short of bombing then economically strangle them and immediately. Not in stages.

 

[hanimmal]

What Biden will do, simply by virtue of being elected, is set the stage for another right wing “populist”. We need someone to push the entire country to the left in whichever ways possible to prepare for that storm. Because I can assure you it will and if you cannot imagine it being worse than Trump then just hold on because it’s coming.

We are like that ship in the Pirates of the Caribbean movie, to get over the horizon they need to flip it by running one side to the other getting it to tilt further and further. When you vote in anyone from extreme positions you become open to the opposite response, we vote in a black man, we get a racist.

I am ok with pretty much every Dem running (not the Russian puppet lady though Gabbard), and will vote for whichever wins the nomination, but do think it is important to realize that Biden is left of center, he is just pragmatic enough to know to get some things done, other people will want their agenda as well.

 

[Fogdog]

I am not sure if I'm reading that right. I really don't know much of his legislative record other than little things from the news here and there. Its impossible to know much without reading the bills and knowing which person put what in, everything gets so diluted I don't feel confident thinking I know anyones true record.

I do want Biden to get the Dem nomination. I like a lot of things about most of the candidates, economically they really can't do anything regardless of how good their message is, Rep will retain the senate, so nothing will be able to get done until at least 2026. But I think Biden can really use this time to let us move forward as a country after the Troll in chief is done ripping us all apart.

Maybe I mixed you up with somebody else who was highly critical of Biden's record when he lead as a Democratic Party Senator in the late 80's, early 90's. Biden had a large role in the very harmful and relatively useless punitive crime laws passed back then. It was a more conservative era on both sides of the aisle and what Biden passed was criticized by the right for being too lenient. I'd give Biden a pass if he were more enlightened in self criticizing his actions and their results but like many people too long in power, he can't admit to mistakes.

IMO, Biden is the not right man for the job of repairing the damage Republicans have wrought in the first decades of this century much less leading this country into the next decade. He's leagues better than Trump. Is he electable? Some say he is more electable than others. Fortunately, I don't have to make up my mind right now. I really don't like him. Are there a lot more like me or am I an outlier?

Is Biden the right man for the job to march in place until the Senate is cleansed of right wingers? Maybe. But I still don't like him.

 

[Fogdog]

Sir, just about anyone would be better than Trump. Meaning those who have indicated they would run. I looked up his legislative record. His Sentencing Act of 1980 sucks ass. If I were black I’d make him show me how he’s ever helped me before and how he intends to help me AFTER he’s elected. The Democrats have just taken the minority vote as a given.

But again he’s better than any sonofabitch on the right.

AC isn't saying Biden would be worse than Trump. He's questioning if Biden is different enough from Trump to beat him in November. The story goes that Hillary lost because she is far enough right to discourage enough left leaning people from voting and Trump managed to sneak in with a minority of the vote. His win was described in one article I read as Trump benefiting from a lightning strike. . If it's true that Hillary was the reason Trump won then Biden would put us at risk of lightning striking twice.

I'm not saying I buy the hypothesis but I'm not denying it either.

 

[hanimmal]

AC isn't saying Biden would be worse than Trump. He's questioning if Biden is different enough from Trump to beat him in November. The story goes that Hillary lost because she is far enough right to discourage enough left leaning people from voting and Trump managed to sneak in with a minority of the vote. His win was described in one article I read as Trump benefiting from a lightning strike. . If it's true that Hillary was the reason Trump won then Biden would put us at risk of lightning striking twice.

I'm not saying I buy the hypothesis but I'm not denying it either.

.....Hilary lost because she is far enough right to open her up for russian bot trolls to spam enough garbage to discourage enough left leaning .........

I would add in the underline portion, but overall agree.

Right now I imagine the Dems as running into enemy fire with the trolling/media cycle for all of the Dems. He is absorbing a lot of the enemy fire and much like John Edwards ended up doing in 2008, I really liked him, but it opened up Hilary/Obama face-off when he had to drop out after (weird how connections can be made today with Trump) national enquirer posted the stuff about his affair.

 

[ttystikk]

Just look at wages. Average pay and CEO pay. It's going to continue escalating until something radical happens. The national debt is out of control too. Big time crash/ recession coming.

Is why voting for someone who just recreated the same conditions we had before Trump only invites someone like Trump to run- and get elected- again.

For this reason, I'm supporting Sanders. None the rest of them are actually enough different in any significant way.

We have Citizens United to thank for this state of affairs.

 

[UncleBuck]

I'm supporting Sanders.

no shit?