HLG vs HGL Side By Side Take 2

[hybridway2]

@hybridway2 If the light is enhanced especially for plant growth, then that's all good, too -as long as the plants which are grown under that spectrum have been allowed to reproduce under it for at least one generation. Most commercial seed stock that people can buy, have been grown under HID lighting, so, when you take those seeds and grow them under LED light, the genetically-imprinted expectations (for lack of a better term) of that seed will need time to adjust and re-tune itself to the LED. And the same goes for all the other growing conditions, too. Subsequent generations would be the only real way to tell.

I also think that chlorophyll peaks may be slightly off-goal when it comes to marijuana. I believe that things like terpenes and volatile esters could be variable under different spectrums regardless of how much chlorophyll a plant is producing. I have no science to link for this belief -(other than my first-hand witnessing of some of the stinkiest and tastiest weed I've ever smoked), that was grown under fluorescent shop lights -and grown under them for countless generations with little-to-no variance. Lot's of cool, white/blue light sitting low onto the tops of extremely manifolded plants....wow! It works!

It's my belief that a plant will adapt to its light source, if allowed. It just takes time, growing style/knowledge....and also selecting a good male to pollinate the females under those conditions, so that the seed will have that environmental-imprint.

I think this contest will prove to be very even between the two companies -as long as the photon energy is equal.

That's a really good point about how they breed using hps. That should change or at least have the option between the 2 in the future.
Ya know, i stopped using my Hydroponics Hut Burple for veg even know it kicked serious veg ass. Yes a cob/diode array blew but that's not why.
Thought somehow that the plant wouldn't like its non-burple flower light, not be prepared for the dramatic spectral shift & have a poor attitude. But it could've just been in my head.
Fearing that now vegging a few doubles under the RGB HGL's. Which are vegging great now that they're at the proper height for my plants.
Just concerned about the switch to another source at flower.

 

[whytewidow]

^^^ what he said. i made the switch from soil moms to coco(great on budget and nute control). Then hid to led. Never looking back. Didn’t even wait for yield results from harvest. I would have to do atleast 3-4 cycles to have a definite answer. But what I do know. Electric bill lower, I can cover way more plants in veg and flower. My main grow style being sog on flood tables is perfect for how I run these boards. I have extra boards I haven’t setup yet and when my final veg room is finished I plan on throwing autos in there just to make up for my yield difference with my learning curve I’m going through. Also made the switch over to jacks hydro

My leds increased my yield, trich production, and increased flavor. All while costing me less money in electric per run. Almost 35% less in costs. Yield went up so far with one strain I know for sure that I've run 6 times. I'm flowering out my 7th run right now. But yield went up like 18.44% per harvest.

 

[Colo MMJ]

Running x3 of the x4 , Penetrator 84x HGL'S for a total draw of 472w.View attachment 4329747 View attachment 4329748

Dirty floor. You should sweep, scrap then paint.

 

[hybridway2]

Dirty floor. You should sweep, scrap then paint.

Clean floor. Bleached & mopped often . Will be painting but might not be white.

 

[Rocket Soul]

My leds increased my yield, trich production, and increased flavor. All while costing me less money in electric per run. Almost 35% less in costs. Yield went up so far with one strain I know for sure that I've run 6 times. I'm flowering out my 7th run right now. But yield went up like 18.44% per harvest.

More or less our margins aswell:
Same growspace and environment and clones, leds and hps:
Hps 50g/square foot @60w/squarefoot
Led: 60g/square foot@30w/squarefoot

Caveat: wintergrow so we were burning a looooot of propane, just to keep temps up in our space.

 

[tstick]

I think it's fine to get a higher yield if that's the goal. But sometimes I find myself getting wrapped up in the numbers and efficiencies, only, and I might forget that what I need from a light might be something different for someone else. Like yield....Regardless of the exact weight that my grows yield, I always have more than I can use and it's always been that way ever since I've been growing! I've run fluorescents, HIDs, several different types of LEDs, too. So, yield is really a non-issue for me. I just try to get the stickiest, nastiest, gooiest flowers and I don't care if the plants, in total, only equal about a pound per year....It's more than I need -especially if the quality is there. I just don't use that much. I'm not a party-smoker...just a couple rips a day, smack my lips a few times and fix a broken fan or do some gardening...I wouldn't even notice whether or not my yield went up or down, comparatively, under a given light source.

Yield, in my opinion, is a concern only for the commercial grower...but not many commercial growers are going to be running either type of these lights. These lights are geared for small/medium grow operations. But either of these lighting setups could provide ample light -way too much light, in fact, for a personal-use grower, like myself! Oh the irony!

 

[whytewidow]

I think it's fine to get a higher yield if that's the goal. But sometimes I find myself getting wrapped up in the numbers and efficiencies, only, and I might forget that what I need from a light might be something different for someone else. Like yield....Regardless of the exact weight that my grows yield, I always have more than I can use and it's always been that way ever since I've been growing! I've run fluorescents, HIDs, several different types of LEDs, too. So, yield is really a non-issue for me. I just try to get the stickiest, nastiest, gooiest flowers and I don't care if the plants, in total, only equal about a pound per year....It's more than I need -especially if the quality is there. I just don't use that much. I'm not a party-smoker...just a couple rips a day, smack my lips a few times and fix a broken fan or do some gardening...I wouldn't even notice whether or not my yield went up or down, comparatively, under a given light source.

Yield, in my opinion, is a concern only for the commercial grower...but not many commercial growers are going to be running either type of these lights. These lights are geared for small/medium grow operations. But either of these lighting setups could provide ample light -way too much light, in fact, for a personal-use grower, like myself! Oh the irony!

I get the same way get all wrapped up the datasheets and efficiencies and forget that I'm growing. I use to smoke nonstop then I got into building lights about 9 years ago. When I started working for a lighting company. And I've been on the make as I can for as least amount of cost. Then started building them other people and it kindve took up my time. And my garden is suffering. For the first time in 6 years I have an empty tent. And now I have two empty. Bc I'm doing nothing but working my normal job. And building lighting for other people.

 

[hybridway2]

HGL seams to me the happier plants today. Slowly being able to take & enjoy more light.
HLG 's appaer to be seeing the light as stronger then it is & look like they'd appreciate a lil backing off for the rest of the day .
Sometimes i feel the plants perceive white led as stronger then it is.
Been trying to keep even par on both sides. Giving them what they want while allowing us to see the difference the spectrum plays. As of recently though, the HGL plants are capable of receiving stronger #'s. But who knows, maybe because the light is so spread on the HLG the plant taking 350 from all sides is the same as 450-300 on the HGL. Either way, this is today. Tomorrow is another day.

 

[diggs99]

HGL side def looking a little happier in those pics.

Nice update, thanks man

 

[hybridway2]

Lil better now Still at 304w.
Coverage is tight but working. Plants will soon outgrow their spaces. Ill hold off for another 5 days or so before transplant & the real fun begins.
Oh, check the ?strain clones, 2 phenos of the same ?.

 

[Randomblame]

The HGL spectrum has a lot more blue and for this reason the leaves look a little darker. But I don't think they are healthier just 2 days ahead maybe. I believe we see this slightly darker green until the end. But more like 12% blue is counter productive when it comes to final yield. For this reason many peeps use 3000 and 3500°k spectrum. I think the Trinity side will catch up pretty fast as soon as you pull the flowering switch. Especially when there is no way to reduce the blue part on the HGL side..
But lets see what happens.. I could be totally wrong.. Maybe this blue, green, red combo is a kick ass spectrum and flowers as well as it grows. As long as you keep the light levels the same on both sides I expect not to see a huge difference. The Trinity board will do it with much less power draw because of its higher efficiency but if you compare them further this way(same intensity level) I expect almost the same yield on both sides. Maybe one should try to max out the light levels on both sides or compare them at the same wattage. Maybe later in another test. If you set them to the same light levels the Trinity board can't show it's full potential.

I'm really curious for the next weeks. Not so much because of the lamps used.. more because of the extra green diodes. It's the first time I see such a blue, green, red combo and I'm really interested to see what effect the green light has. Green diodes are the worst of all and have pretty low efficiency. They only look bright for the human eye but the best ones reach only 1,9μMol/j. For this reason I've rather used more white diodes. I was just not sure enough if it works or not... Now I get this question finally answered.
If these lamps can keep up with a white-red board of much better efficiency it must have to do with the spectrum as we know red/blue alone can't do that.

Plants on both sides look happy to me... Good job as always.. Your left shoe looks by the way exactly like mine, lol! Are you a painter, bro?

 

[hybridway2]

The HGL spectrum has a lot more blue and for this reason the leaves look a little darker. But I don't think they are healthier just 2 days ahead maybe. I believe we see this slightly darker green until the end. But more like 12% blue is counter productive when it comes to final yield. For this reason many peeps use 3000 and 3500°k spectrum. I think the Trinity side will catch up pretty fast as soon as you pull the flowering switch. Especially when there is no way to reduce the blue part on the HGL side..
But lets see what happens.. I could be totally wrong.. Maybe this blue, green, red combo is a kick ass spectrum and flowers as well as it grows. As long as you keep the light levels the same on both sides I expect not to see a huge difference. The Trinity board will do it with much less power draw because of its higher efficiency but if you compare them further this way(same intensity level) I expect almost the same yield on both sides. Maybe one should try to max out the light levels on both sides or compare them at the same wattage. Maybe later in another test. If you set them to the same light levels the Trinity board can't show it's full potential.

I'm really curious for the next weeks. Not so much because of the lamps used.. more because of the extra green diodes. It's the first time I see such a blue, green, red combo and I'm really interested to see what effect the green light has. Green diodes are the worst of all and have pretty low efficiency. They only look bright for the human eye but the best ones reach only 1,9μMol/j. For this reason I've rather used more white diodes. I was just not sure enough if it works or not... Now I get this question finally answered.
If these lamps can keep up with a white-red board of much better efficiency it must have to do with the spectrum as we know red/blue alone can't do that.

Plants on both sides look happy to me... Good job as always.. Your left shoe looks by the way exactly like mine, lol! Are you a painter, bro?

Im not quite sold on the spectrum yet, as you said, growing & flowering are 2 different things. My HH was just about the best veg light i had & remember thinking if it flowers anything like it grows then i got a good one. But that was not the case. Hu, maybe i could source some cobs & diodes of HGL to repair it & modify while im at it. Just never have the time. You should see all the diy light parts I've collected that r collecting dust.

 

[OneHitDone]

The HGL spectrum has a lot more blue and for this reason the leaves look a little darker. But I don't think they are healthier just 2 days ahead maybe. I believe we see this slightly darker green until the end. But more like 12% blue is counter productive when it comes to final yield. For this reason many peeps use 3000 and 3500°k spectrum. I think the Trinity side will catch up pretty fast as soon as you pull the flowering switch. Especially when there is no way to reduce the blue part on the HGL side..
But lets see what happens.. I could be totally wrong.. Maybe this blue, green, red combo is a kick ass spectrum and flowers as well as it grows. As long as you keep the light levels the same on both sides I expect not to see a huge difference. The Trinity board will do it with much less power draw because of its higher efficiency but if you compare them further this way(same intensity level) I expect almost the same yield on both sides. Maybe one should try to max out the light levels on both sides or compare them at the same wattage. Maybe later in another test. If you set them to the same light levels the Trinity board can't show it's full potential.

I'm really curious for the next weeks. Not so much because of the lamps used.. more because of the extra green diodes. It's the first time I see such a blue, green, red combo and I'm really interested to see what effect the green light has. Green diodes are the worst of all and have pretty low efficiency. They only look bright for the human eye but the best ones reach only 1,9μMol/j. For this reason I've rather used more white diodes. I was just not sure enough if it works or not... Now I get this question finally answered.
If these lamps can keep up with a white-red board of much better efficiency it must have to do with the spectrum as we know red/blue alone can't do that.

Plants on both sides look happy to me... Good job as always.. Your left shoe looks by the way exactly like mine, lol! Are you a painter, bro?

I am just curious how you could say the HGL has more Blue than the HLG, especially if the new picture hybridway2 is using is based on a 4K diode and not a 3K like some of their other lights?

 

[Randomblame]

I am just curious how you could say the HGL has more Blue than the HLG, especially if the new picture hybridway2 is using is based on a 4K diode and not a 3K like some of their other lights?

View attachment 4334798 View attachment 4334799

Mainly because of the blurple touch I can see.
I've not seen that chart before. Seems they use 440 + 460nm for the blue part..
hard to compare that without % numbers. Seems at least a little wider blue range but in the end it seems not to be more like 15-16% maybe.
That huge spike maybe looks like it has more blue in the 1st moment but.. we have to calculate the areas below that curves to evaluate how much percent falls in each range. The Trinity board should have between 3400-3600°k or so, that's around 11-12% blue maybe.
So the difference is indeed pretty small.
Maybe the darker green of the leaves has also to do with the slightly wider blue range but normally its an effect of more blue light. Its not really wider there is only no spike but they both begin at ~420nm.
I remember the times when I had my 1st LED light, a Mars blurple, but also with 440 and 460nm blue. The darkish green was exactly the same. If its because of more blue the leaves should also feel slightly thicker as when they have more "meat" somehow.

We can count the diodes, calculate their wattage and compare that to get an idea how much energy is used for each range. Its not the same as the spectrum output but gives us at least an idea. But without knowing which diodes they use exactly its almost impossible.
But 2-4% blue would already have a visible effect on the chlorophyll density and morphology of the plant.
Till now we have not THE optimal indoor spectrum and maybe a spectrum different to white sunlight could be more productive. Bar-8 is also no 3000k spectrum and grows some nice yield.
So this blue, green, red combo is really interesting if it works. I imagine already how it would look like if they would have used expensive Cree or Osram top bin diodes.. Efficiency would be much better and maybe they could run with the same wattage and heights. If that spectrum creates good results it for sure worth it to increase the efficiency to keep up with other lights.
But 450$ is simply too expensive for low end LED's even if the combo works great. Their profit margin is for sure awesome. Exsists a picture of whats inside? I have only seen the replacement PCB's and they seem to use Epistar or EpiLED diodes, maybe SemiLED but that's the only one still using the old white plastic LED housings.

 

[hybridway2]

These x84's are using 6.4w a light on fans. So about 26w total for the passive cooling.
I believe her RGB ratio is 10B/15G/75R
She has shared what nm's are used.
Ill ask to avoid giving out the wrong info off bad memory.
Plants are drinking too fast for me & i notice fan leaves aren't as big as usual. Roots must be jamming up & its time for transplant. That's when they'll take off.
Ill shoot for this wknd.
You guys know shes got updated lights coming out soon?
UnitFarm uses good diodes in they're burple lights but i haven't seen results.
Its all about the spectrum anyways.

 

[whytewidow]

These x84's are using 6.4w a light on fans. So about 26w total for the passive cooling.
I believe her RGB ratio is 10B/15G/75R
She has shared what nm's are used.
Ill ask to avoid giving out the wrong info off bad memory.
Plants are drinking too fast for me & i notice fan leaves aren't as big as usual. Roots must be jamming up & its time for transplant. That's when they'll take off.
Ill shoot for this wknd.
You guys know shes got updated lights coming out soon?
UnitFarm uses good diodes in they're burple lights but i haven't seen results.
Its all about the spectrum anyways.

It's not just spectrum though. That's already known. You can have the right spectrum and not enough par/lumen, or too much. An incandescent light can and will veg n flower a plant. The diodes in those lights are epistar slug diodes, I believe. Not 100% sure but look like it. It's old tech. And I dont mean a few years old. Slug diodes were some of the first leds to be made. They create an excess of heat, they arent efficient, and they go bad at random, and several times. Theres not enough cooling surface from the heatsinks bc they are thin. And in turn, run fans. And the price point for these are absolutely insane. Just bc you change the spectrum of from say a mars hydro, basically. To one plants absorbs better still doesnt change the type of diode, the way of cooling, and the inefficiencies. Mars hydro will grow dank smoke. But it costs more to run it, and it just puts off a horrible color. And anyone who says mars wont grow good dank that's dense and coated in trichs. More than likely doesnt know how to grow.
.
Grown under Mars Hydro
Dense n sticky
But it costs twice as much energy in lighting as it does to run under my light built with LM301b diodes and under LM561c S6 diodes. And has a better flavor profile under mid power whites, and a few mono colored diodea.

 

[hybridway2]

440, 470, 525, 640, 660, 740 are the wavelengths used.

It's not just spectrum though. That's already known. You can have the right spectrum and not enough par/lumen, or too much. An incandescent light can and will veg n flower a plant. The diodes in those lights are epistar slug diodes, I believe. Not 100% sure but look like it. It's old tech. And I dont mean a few years old. Slug diodes were some of the first leds to be made. They create an excess of heat, they arent efficient, and they go bad at random, and several times. Theres not enough cooling surface from the heatsinks bc they are thin. And in turn, run fans. And the price point for these are absolutely insane. Just bc you change the spectrum of from say a mars hydro, basically. To one plants absorbs better still doesnt change the type of diode, the way of cooling, and the inefficiencies. Mars hydro will grow dank smoke. But it costs more to run it, and it just puts off a horrible color. And anyone who says mars wont grow good dank that's dense and coated in trichs. More than likely doesnt know how to grow.
.
Grown under Mars Hydro
Dense n sticky
But it costs twice as much energy in lighting as it does to run under my light built with LM301b diodes and under LM561c S6 diodes. And has a better flavor profile under mid power whites, and a few mono colored diodea.
View attachment 4334933 View attachment 4334934
View attachment 4334931

I know, you're absolutely right. This whole thing is not just about spectrum. Its about how each light performs as a whole. Just so happens they've been preferably & coincidentally using close to the same par #'s is why i said that.
Bumped the density by a 2" proximity today.

 

[whytewidow]

440, 470, 525, 640, 660, 740 are the wavelengths used.

I know, you're absolutely right. This whole thing is not just about spectrum. Its about how each light performs as a whole. Just so happens they've been preferably & coincidentally using close to the same par #'s is why i said that.
Bumped the density by a 2" proximity today.

Tyvm for an intelligent reply. I thought maybe you would think I was bashing her light. But I actually wasnt. I appreciate the side by side. I've done tons of them for my reasons. But i will say my DIY mid power whites and custom monos absolutely destroyed mars hydro, Amazon lights, ebay lights, and whatnot. Every time. Par is par, lumen is a lumen, and watt is a watt. But are they are created equal, that is the question??? Lol. Good luck, and may the odds forever be in your favor. (@Stephenj37826 ) lol

 

[Warpedpassage]

Hello hybridway2,

Hgl has also said recently elsewhere that they are using 4 to 1, red to far red ratio. Do you see that many far red diodes on your fixture. If they are indeed using a 4 to 1 ratio that would also be a significant differnce? Unless hlg is also incorporating far red in the new fixture?

 

[hybridway2]

Hello hybridway2,

Hgl has also said recently elsewhere that they are using 4 to 1, red to far red ratio. Do you see that many far red diodes on your fixture. If they are indeed using a 4 to 1 ratio that would also be a significant differnce? Unless hlg is also incorporating far red in the new fixture?

Yes indeed, 2 , 740's in each cluster.