Thank you ! I love growing !

[Keeprollinup]

Sunny in England it's all good blood in the hood.

 

[tyke1973]

Many good folks have come and gone and many have come and stayed.
Never going to remember all the names as there has been too many over the years. Appreciate that Corey bro,too much hate in today's world .To be arguing over a herb,that medicates and to me means peace and love .Keep growing and More important ,keep learning others to also grow ,strains need sharing .So medical uses can be found from them .I found my self a few strains that are really good for certain conditions .

@GroErr @tyke1973 for just getting on with growing and showing and staying out of the drama.
@DST for the 600 thread, one of the best threads on here and all the guys in that thread!
@genuity for the chuckers thread, folks sharing the love of the bean

For the folks that have helped so many in the led section, including but not exclusive to @Growmau5 @Greengenes707 @alesh @Rocket Soul @Randomblame @stardustsailor

I like all the folks on here, life's too short to dislike people that may not share your every view.
But special thanks to everyone that just gets on with sharing info, pics, methods and the little part of their lives that we all have in common.

 

[epbadger]

Coludnt agree more. THANK YOU!!! Very new to this site and have learned so much in a short time...Great to see a list of some of the MVP's!

 

[snoeman032]

Coludnt agree more. THANK YOU!!! Very new to this site and have learned so much in a short time...Great to see a list of some of the MVP's!

Yea man this site is fucking awesome if you don’t know something just make a post and somebody will answer it.

 

[BurnzyBurnz]

Yea man this site is fucking awesome if you don’t know something just make a post and somebody will answer it.

Always ! This site and more importantly the community is very helpful.

 

[Kushash]

@nfhiggs is unfortunately no longer with us since last year.
(God bless you and RIP, brother!)

Hi Randomblame!

I couldn't find a thread you created to chat so I thought this thread would be nice.

Some good people here and memories.

I was the 1st to vote and voted 1st place to @nfhiggs in the kitty litter comp in 2018.
I went through all of his posts that comp after he passed.
Always a gentleman.
Here's how I voted then.

Budzbuddha was my early favorite.
Underground Scientist had a great trellis and was also my early favorite.
Big Green Thump has a cool cage and had a strong finish.
I went with nfhiggs not because of the weight but because of the appearance of the buds. Maybe I don't have a good eye IDK but I felt if I was going to buy a 1/4 from one of the contestance I would gamble on his.


1) nfhiggs
2) Big Green Thumb
3) Budzbuddha

Honorable mentions: Underground Scientist, hybridway2 and DesertPlants.

I'll get back to you on the topic of fan leaves.
Need to get some pics and measurements.


​

 

[Rocket Soul]

For the folks that have helped so many in the led section, including but not exclusive to @Growmau5 @Greengenes707 @alesh @Rocket Soul @Randomblame @stardustsailor
[/QUOTE]
Wow, you got me with some great company, literally my favorite reads!

In this context somebody should mention @SupraSPL (cant tag him anymore, has he left??) as one of the most helpfull guys here a few years back.

 

[Kushash]

Exactly, bro!
I've visited rui a few years ago and I immediately fall in love with this forum. In terms of LED growing for instance we are light years ahead compared to the most other forums where peeps still use cheap am4zon blurples and claim green is useless.
A few haters an trolls you'll find everywhere but the hard core of users here is just awesome. Very knowledgeable, always helpful and willing to share their growing secrets. All I know about LED's today I've learned here...and that's a lot.
Every time someone asks me something about LED's I recommend them to visit rui. For me it's one of the most important
US forums for the LED community and that's my full earnest.

@Randomblame and I were talking about fan leaves falling off and the relation to light a while back in the LED comp.

Thought this was a nice place to chat and revive this thread.
RIP Brother @nfhiggs!

The timing is good. I'm paying special attention to the plants in the ultimate comp and have some good looking leaves so far.

Some details.
Two glass enclosed air cooled 600w hortilux super hps bulbs in new condition.
The plants are about 55 days from peaking out of the soil.
There are 7 plants.
2 clones and 5 from seed.
they have been under 12/12 for 12 days now.
In 5 gallon pots with about 4 gallons of soil.

Losing my last 3 blade leaf from the 2nd set of leaves.
Didn't think those would hold on.
What about the next few weeks.
The lowest leaves are about 63"/160 Centimeters from the glass covers.

Here is the leaf 3 blade leaf from the 2nd set.


Here is the leaf closest to the soil, could be next.

Here are two pics of the group at lights out last night.
A slight droop at lights out, I think once the roots fill in they will be perkier.

How many lower leaves will I loose in the next 3 weeks?
When will the next leaf drop?
Is this a useful example or am I just to stoned and need to have another hit?
There's an idea, another hit! ::​

 

[coreywebster]

@Randomblame and I were talking about fan leaves falling off and the relation to light a while back in the LED comp.

Thought this was a nice place to chat and revive this thread.
RIP Brother @nfhiggs!

The timing is good. I'm paying special attention to the plants in the ultimate comp and have some good looking leaves so far.

Some details.
Two glass enclosed air cooled 600w hortilux super hps bulbs in new condition.
The plants are about 55 days from peaking out of the soil.
There are 7 plants.
2 clones and 5 from seed.
they have been under 12/12 for 12 days now.
In 5 gallon pots with about 4 gallons of soil.

Losing my last 3 blade leaf from the 2nd set of leaves.
Didn't think those would hold on.
What about the next few weeks.
The lowest leaves are about 63"/160 Centimeters from the glass covers.

Here is the leaf 3 blade leaf from the 2nd set.
View attachment 4333751

Here is the leaf closest to the soil, could be next.
View attachment 4333753
Here are two pics of the group at lights out last night.
A slight droop at lights out, I think once the roots fill in they will be perkier.
View attachment 4333757 View attachment 4333758

How many lower leaves will I loose in the next 3 weeks?
When will the next leaf drop?
Is this a useful example or am I just to stoned and need to have another hit?
There's an idea, another hit! ::​

I saw a little of that discussion but it was spread out a bit and was been too lazy to do anything but skim.
What was his view and what was your own?
Am I right in thinking you were under the impression that fan leaves only drop if the plant is starved or unhealthy and RB was saying it can be due to lack of light? Or did I misunderstand the discussion?

 

[coreywebster]

For the folks that have helped so many in the led section, including but not exclusive to @Growmau5 @Greengenes707 @alesh @Rocket Soul @Randomblame @stardustsailor

Wow, you got me with some great company, literally my favorite reads!

In this context somebody should mention @SupraSPL (cant tag him anymore, has he left??) as one of the most helpfull guys here a few years back.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I think he was just winding down his presence here as I was just starting out with the LEDs. Loads of helpful posts.
That cob calc was based of his spread sheets I think.

The tag still works, his profile is still here. It will just be RIU been weird.

 

[Kushash]

I saw a little of that discussion but it was spread out a bit and was been too lazy to do anything but skim.
What was his view and what was your own?
Am I right in thinking you were under the impression that fan leaves only drop if the plant is starved or unhealthy and RB was saying it can be due to lack of light? Or did I misunderstand the discussion?

Yes that's what it was about.

I believe the plant will keep those leaves healthy as long as the conditions are right. The plant will steal from it when necessary otherwise it will be left in place.

I also I think we have a different experience when a leaf dies.
His will drop off from the plant soon after death where mine will stay on a branch for a very long time after death but I may be wrong on that one.

We will see what happens when the next leaf or 2 dies.
they still have 10 weeks to go, are about 35"/89cm from the soil line and growing an inch a day at the moment so they will average over 5' when the stretch is over.

I'll let randomblame explain his position on those leaves and light.

 

[Randomblame]

@Randomblame and I were talking about fan leaves falling off and the relation to light a while back in the LED comp.

Thought this was a nice place to chat and revive this thread.
RIP Brother @nfhiggs!

The timing is good. I'm paying special attention to the plants in the ultimate comp and have some good looking leaves so far.

Some details.
Two glass enclosed air cooled 600w hortilux super hps bulbs in new condition.
The plants are about 55 days from peaking out of the soil.
There are 7 plants.
2 clones and 5 from seed.
they have been under 12/12 for 12 days now.
In 5 gallon pots with about 4 gallons of soil.

Losing my last 3 blade leaf from the 2nd set of leaves.
Didn't think those would hold on.
What about the next few weeks.
The lowest leaves are about 63"/160 Centimeters from the glass covers.

Here is the leaf 3 blade leaf from the 2nd set.
View attachment 4333751

Here is the leaf closest to the soil, could be next.
View attachment 4333753
Here are two pics of the group at lights out last night.
A slight droop at lights out, I think once the roots fill in they will be perkier.
View attachment 4333757 View attachment 4333758

How many lower leaves will I loose in the next 3 weeks?
When will the next leaf drop?
Is this a useful example or am I just to stoned and need to have another hit?
There's an idea, another hit! ::​

I saw a little of that discussion but it was spread out a bit and was been too lazy to do anything but skim.
What was his view and what was your own?
Am I right in thinking you were under the impression that fan leaves only drop if the plant is starved or unhealthy and RB was saying it can be due to lack of light? Or did I misunderstand the discussion?

Yeah! It really has to do how much a leaf can contribute to the whole plant. If it gets almost no light and can't store energy anymore the plant starts considering it as useless. The plant takes all the stored nutes and starches out of that leaf, it gets yellow and will wilt within a week or two. They don't do this because they need that bit of energy they do it just because mother nature don't waste things.
When the trees shed their leaves in the autumn they extract all the stored nutrients and sugars out of them and based on this stored nutrients they form new buds which then expel again next spring.

You can not really calculate at which point the plant "thinks" its wasted energy to keep a leaf further alive. I thing that has to do with several factors. Conditions inside the soil, EC, PH, current plant stage and age of the plant, and there are for sure even more things like genetic and so on. You can keep them as healthy as possible and it happens nevertheless.

Indoors it can already happen 16-20" below the canopy and sometimes it starts already in the 5th or 6th week with no visible reason. Especially if you grow SOG style and don't lollipop the lower area it starts pretty soon.
I always look at the whole plant and try to assume which leaves I can lollipop off of the plants without causing stress. Is it anyway clear that she will throw it off at some point it makes sense to remove it immediately. When you prune off a little twig from the lower area it makes no sense to keep the according leaf further on the plant. The plant would only waste energy trying to create a new shoot in the worst case.
Better direct the energy to the upper zones where the buds are formed. See it so.. One more leaf at the canopy is much better as two old leaves on the bottom.

Wilting leaves laying on the soil are also a window for fungal infects IMO. One grower says, it's dangerous and they should be removed and others say, it helps to keep infects away from the healthy parts of the plant. I prefer to have no wilting leaves laying on the bottom of my groom. The cleaner the better... I'm not a believer on the leaf stripping technique but I strip off certain leaves like this on the main stem and these throwing huge shadows above the lower branches.

And finally..
When I look at your plants I see lots of lower leaves which have no own buds or twigs cuz you have trimmed them off already knowing they would anyway only create larf. I would remove this leaves too.
It happens not always but often enough you can see new growth on those lower nodes and a plant doing that is wasting energy. A clear cut is the best you can do. It hurts sometimes to remove healthy looking leaves but its better to focus all the energy.

When this set of wilting leaves is done she will probably start throwing off the next set of leaves within the next 2 weeks. I don't think it's needed to allow the plants to get back these nutrients. Its really not that much. When we can remove all the fan leaves of an healthy plant and the plant produce still huge amounts of buds the stored energy can not really be so important. I would rather remove them and reduce the transpiration in the lower areas. This would also allow better air movement and circulation.

 

[coreywebster]

Yes that's what it was about.

I believe the plant will keep those leaves healthy as long as the conditions are right. The plant will steal from it when necessary otherwise it will be left in place.

I also I think we have a different experience when a leaf dies.
His will drop off from the plant soon after death where mine will stay on a branch for a very long time after death but I may be wrong on that one.

We will see what happens when the next leaf or 2 dies.
they still have 10 weeks to go, are about 35"/89cm from the soil line and growing an inch a day at the moment so they will average over 5' when the stretch is over.

I'll let randomblame explain his position on those leaves and light.

Yeah I think it depends on the cause of the leaf death.
I think RB is talking about this

https://study.com/academy/lesson/leaf-abscission-definition-lesson.html

 

[coreywebster]

I see it all the time because I grow a dense canopy where light cannot pass through enough.
I wonder if its different for a plant grown with normal apical dominance. ? Maybe more light passes more freely in?

 

[Kushash]

Yeah! It really has to do how much a leaf can contribute to the whole plant. If it gets almost no light and can't store energy anymore the plant starts considering it as useless. The plant takes all the stored nutes and starches out of that leaf, it gets yellow and will wilt within a week or two. They don't do this because they need that bit of energy they do it just because mother nature don't waste things.
When the trees shed their leaves in the autumn they extract all the stored nutrients and sugars out of them and based on this stored nutrients they form new buds which then expel again next spring.

You can not really calculate at which point the plant "thinks" its wasted energy to keep a leaf further alive. I thing that has to do with several factors. Conditions inside the soil, EC, PH, current plant stage and age of the plant, and there are for sure even more things like genetic and so on. You can keep them as healthy as possible and it happens nevertheless.

Indoors it can already happen 16-20" below the canopy and sometimes it starts already in the 5th or 6th week with no visible reason. Especially if you grow SOG style and don't lollipop the lower area it starts pretty soon.
I always look at the whole plant and try to assume which leaves I can lollipop off of the plants without causing stress. Is it anyway clear that she will throw it off at some point it makes sense to remove it immediately. When you prune off a little twig from the lower area it makes no sense to keep the according leaf further on the plant. The plant would only waste energy trying to create a new shoot in the worst case.
Better direct the energy to the upper zones where the buds are formed. See it so.. One more leaf at the canopy is much better as two old leaves on the bottom.

Wilting leaves laying on the soil are also a window for fungal infects IMO. One grower says, it's dangerous and they should be removed and others say, it helps to keep infects away from the healthy parts of the plant. I prefer to have no wilting leaves laying on the bottom of my groom. The cleaner the better... I'm not a believer on the leaf stripping technique but I strip off certain leaves like this on the main stem and these throwing huge shadows above the lower branches.

And finally..
When I look at your plants I see lots of lower leaves which have no own buds or twigs cuz you have trimmed them off already knowing they would anyway only create larf. I would remove this leaves too.
It happens not always but often enough you can see new growth on those lower nodes and a plant doing that is wasting energy. A clear cut is the best you can do. It hurts sometimes to remove healthy looking leaves but its better to focus all the energy.

When this set of wilting leaves is done she will probably start throwing off the next set of leaves within the next 2 weeks. I don't think it's needed to allow the plants to get back these nutrients. Its really not that much. When we can remove all the fan leaves of an healthy plant and the plant produce still huge amounts of buds the stored energy can not really be so important. I would rather remove them and reduce the transpiration in the lower areas. This would also allow better air movement and circulation.

This grow is all about leaves.
This is an experiment I've been wanting to do.
I did top and prune and will continue to pluck larf but all leaves are staying till they drop off.

I totally agree I would prefer to remove the leaf near the soil but I'll gamble with fungal potential this time.

I accidentally busted off about 3 healthy leaves so far, other than that I want to see if I can combine keeping the plants healthy while maintaining all leaves and let the buds take care of themselves.


You said: "When this set of wilting leaves is done she will probably start throwing off the next set of leaves within the next 2 weeks".

I will tell you my prediction of how many leaves I will lose in the next 3 weeks and then we can wait and see but 1st I want to understand clearly your statement above.
Is that a set of leaves lost per plant in the next 2 weeks.
7 plants 2 leaves each.
14 leaves?
Is that how many leaves will die or be near death in two weeks?
Just want to make sure I understand before I give my prediction.

Curious how many leaves you feel I'll lose in the next 4 weeks on the 7 plants?

 

[Kushash]

Yeah I think it depends on the cause of the leaf death.
I think RB is talking about this

https://study.com/academy/lesson/leaf-abscission-definition-lesson.html

Yes this is very interesting and it was brought up last time and when it comes to indoor cannabis I could not agree with it.
I'm not saying I know one way or the other I just feel it does not compare.

The link you gave only lets me read a few paragraphs but right before it cuts off it says this:

How Does Abscission Work?
In terms of how leaf falling occurs, we can look at the environment at the time of abscission. This process generally occurs during the fall when we see the weather beginning to cool and the growing season ending. As the autumn and winter months approach, the leaves from all leaf-bearing trees and the needles from some pine trees, such as the larch, will drop.


There are other environmental impacts playing a roll like much less rain in the Autumn and Winter months.

My environment is controlled. The autumn and winter months do not approach in my garden.
Doesn't that play a significant role?

I think @SSGrower took part in the conversation last time.

 

[Randomblame]

This grow is all about leaves.
This is an experiment I've been wanting to do.
I did top and prune and will continue to pluck larf but all leaves are staying till they drop off.

I totally agree I would prefer to remove the leaf near the soil but I'll gamble with fungal potential this time.

I accidentally busted off about 3 healthy leaves so far, other than that I want to see if I can combine keeping the plants healthy while maintaining all leaves and let the buds take care of themselves.


You said: "When this set of wilting leaves is done she will probably start throwing off the next set of leaves within the next 2 weeks".

I will tell you my prediction of how many leaves I will lose in the next 3 weeks and then we can wait and see but 1st I want to understand clearly your statement above.
Is that a set of leaves lost per plant in the next 2 weeks.
7 plants 2 leaves each.
14 leaves?
Is that how many leaves will die or be near death in two weeks?
Just want to make sure I understand before I give my prediction.

Curious how many leaves you feel I'll lose in the next 4 weeks on the 7 plants?

If the goal this run is to keep them leaves alive as long as possible than I would just add some sidelight. If not enough light is one factor why plants throw off leaves than its easy to eliminate this factor.
I've used 2 EBgen2 5k strips in the party cup comp and have lost not a single leaf in 14 weeks. I've lollipopped her a bit in week 5 and have removed a few of the bigger fan leaves to reduce shaded areas but no more. The brightness level in the bottom area was just 5-8klx depending on the distance(5klx around the stem) and even on the lowest nodes there were small but fully dense nugs and no larf.
I've never tried using sidelights before that comp but I will for sure add some of the LED-tech strips as sidelights(50cm, 10mm wide, 98 LM301b) to both of my areas(veg and bloom). I've found strip housings with clear or diffuse pmma cover pretty cheap(2m a tenner) I can use to avoid contact burnings and make them almost waterproof. I only need a few more of those end caps when I cut each profil in 4pcs á 50cm length.

Yes this is very interesting and it was brought up last time and when it comes to indoor cannabis I could not agree with it.
I'm not saying I know one way or the other I just feel it does not compare.

The link you gave only lets me read a few paragraphs but right before it cuts off it says this:

How Does Abscission Work?
In terms of how leaf falling occurs, we can look at the environment at the time of abscission. This process generally occurs during the fall when we see the weather beginning to cool and the growing season ending. As the autumn and winter months approach, the leaves from all leaf-bearing trees and the needles from some pine trees, such as the larch, will drop.


There are other environmental impacts playing a roll like much less rain in the Autumn and Winter months.

My environment is controlled. The autumn and winter months do not approach in my garden.
Doesn't that play a significant role?

I think @SSGrower took part in the conversation last time.

No, he meant the example I've used againt o show what trees do and why. Indoors we don't mimic autumn and winter, autumn a little but not all of us and cannabis is no tree anyway.
Indoors one of the most important reasons why it happens is not enough light. Add some sidelight and give these lower leaves something to do and the plant will not consider them as useless. I've tested the brightness level around the stem(at soil level) and found ~5-8klx and is was already enough. Only the leaves closer to the sidelights had a lot more light cuz some leaves have touched them but I've rotated the plant every 2 days by 90° to reduce the risk to damage this leaves.
But even the leaves farer away had still enough light to stay green and develope some decent nugs. F...k! I had only half that much trim like usually. That's maybe also strain dependent but I think it has also to do with the sidelights. I need just a few more grows to evaluate it better.

Are you limited to the current lights or is it still possible to add some more sidelights? 2ft EBgen2 strips cost ~7$ and you could drive 5 of them in parallel on an HLG-60 or 80H-20B(~30$). Up to 80w sidelight, dimmable if you want, for ~70 bucks. These strips don't need heat sinks..

 

[coreywebster]

Yes this is very interesting and it was brought up last time and when it comes to indoor cannabis I could not agree with it.
I'm not saying I know one way or the other I just feel it does not compare.

The link you gave only lets me read a few paragraphs but right before it cuts off it says this:

How Does Abscission Work?
In terms of how leaf falling occurs, we can look at the environment at the time of abscission. This process generally occurs during the fall when we see the weather beginning to cool and the growing season ending. As the autumn and winter months approach, the leaves from all leaf-bearing trees and the needles from some pine trees, such as the larch, will drop.


There are other environmental impacts playing a roll like much less rain in the Autumn and Winter months.

My environment is controlled. The autumn and winter months do not approach in my garden.
Doesn't that play a significant role?

I think @SSGrower took part in the conversation last time.

Yeah that was a poor example I linked, just the first thing I could find, I had some great reads when you were having the original convo. I will see if I can find them again.

 

[coreywebster]

I think this link is more interesting @Kushash , it covers senescence specific to shading of different levels of single parts of plants rather than whole plants.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1365-3040.2011.02474.x
Its very in depth.

I wonder if we have two different causes of leaf death going on , mine been leaf drop due to shaded leaves that are not carrying their weight photosynthetically and yours maybe been a simple relocation of nutrients due to a deficit in your soil late in flower?
Possibly that could be why mine drop on their own and yours cling on ?

Its far to early for me to get my head around.

 

[Kushash]

If the goal this run is to keep them leaves alive as long as possible than I would just add some sidelight. If not enough light is one factor why plants throw off leaves than its easy to eliminate this factor.
I've used 2 EBgen2 5k strips in the party cup comp and have lost not a single leaf in 14 weeks. I've lollipopped her a bit in week 5 and have removed a few of the bigger fan leaves to reduce shaded areas but no more. The brightness level in the bottom area was just 5-8klx depending on the distance(5klx around the stem) and even on the lowest nodes there were small but fully dense nugs and no larf.
I've never tried using sidelights before that comp but I will for sure add some of the LED-tech strips as sidelights(50cm, 10mm wide, 98 LM301b) to both of my areas(veg and bloom). I've found strip housings with clear or diffuse pmma cover pretty cheap(2m a tenner) I can use to avoid contact burnings and make them almost waterproof. I only need a few more of those end caps when I cut each profil in 4pcs á 50cm length.
View attachment 4334149




No, he meant the example I've used againt o show what trees do and why. Indoors we don't mimic autumn and winter, autumn a little but not all of us and cannabis is no tree anyway.
Indoors one of the most important reasons why it happens is not enough light. Add some sidelight and give these lower leaves something to do and the plant will not consider them as useless. I've tested the brightness level around the stem(at soil level) and found ~5-8klx and is was already enough. Only the leaves closer to the sidelights had a lot more light cuz some leaves have touched them but I've rotated the plant every 2 days by 90° to reduce the risk to damage this leaves.
But even the leaves farer away had still enough light to stay green and develope some decent nugs. F...k! I had only half that much trim like usually. That's maybe also strain dependent but I think it has also to do with the sidelights. I need just a few more grows to evaluate it better.

Are you limited to the current lights or is it still possible to add some more sidelights? 2ft EBgen2 strips cost ~7$ and you could drive 5 of them in parallel on an HLG-60 or 80H-20B(~30$). Up to 80w sidelight, dimmable if you want, for ~70 bucks. These strips don't need heat sinks..

I'm reading this and agreeing, before I got to the end I was thinking strips also as a good option.
I will run this grow as it is. I'm in a good position to run it as is right now to see how long I can preserve the leaves.

I am trying different foliar sprays. Small doses of seaweed extract or Epsom salt or fish emulsion along with water only sprays. I should probably make a tea with fresh EWC.

Side lighting would make all the difference I agree and I will try it in time but this grow is to see how well they can be preserved without side lighting.

My thoughts are still different on why they would do better with side lighting.
You say the side lighting will stop the plant from throwing off the leaves without light.
I feel the reason the leaves will do better and survive longer with additional side light is because the light will increase transpiration allowing the leaf to better maintain it's health.