Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
4 single lamps or 2 2 lamp fixtures?
UV Suppliment Lighting
- Thread starter DrGreenT420
- Start date
ChiefRunningPhist
Well-Known Member
(4) 26w CFL, I got mine @ ~$8/ and am happy with the results. On all the time, never have to worry. They may not be the most effecient option, but for me they work great.
Where I bought:
https://www.google.com/search?q=uvb150&client=ms-android-americamovil-us&biw=360&bih=518&tbm=shop&prmd=mvin&tbas=0&tbs=vw:l,p_ord:p,mr:1
Last edited:
TEKNIK
Well-Known Member
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Oh so e27 screw in CFLs I see. I thought I should use those too honestly for ease but the tubes give such better spread if you're gonna actually take the time to do it
Yes, the LED tubes have a driver in one end.
Based on specs I've seen, T8 LED are about the same efficiency whether running off AC mains power or florescent ballasts. Maybe they are measuring power delivered to the LED tube, but not counting power loss through the ballast? The highest efficiency T8 LED I've seen is 146.6 lm/w and it's plug and play, works with the ballast. https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/210778/PLT-90016.html
ChiefRunningPhist
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing they are actually calculating theoretical of base chip.
The chips are behind frosted glass. If its 146.6lm/wt then the chips they are using are pretty good, and that little driver must be pretty good too. I've yet to find a 24w driver over 91%. When I looked at the specsheet it was more or less a sales flyer, not much useful data but gave 18w (or 122lm/w) which is maybe believable but I'm guessing its closer to 105lm/wt 1900lm max with that frosted glass. And ya like you said they aren't taking into account the dissipated energy and extra step to get mains to LEDs. Those ballasts can't be 100% efficient.
One way to tell would be to plug LED tube -> kilowatt meter -> mains, ...
...
...and then plug LED tube -> ballast -> kilowatt meter -> mains, ... and check meter readings to see the difference. One reading with the ballast inline, and one reading without the ballast.
ChiefRunningPhist
Well-Known Member
Ya tubes are good too! I think they are actually more effecient.
They are just bulky in my area, for me a bit of foil on top of the E27 sockets to direct light down seemed to work pretty well. I just had a big frame that would have been in the way of a tube fixture. I could have just kept the reflective dishes on the clamping extension utility lights I used, instead of using foil, but the reflectors were too bulky too.
It's listed as 15w/2200lm, but I see system wattage is 18 in the spec sheet. Most of the others appear more honest. I imagine it's about the same tech as screw in, just a little more room for diodes and driver. At least the screw-in's I've checked match rated power. The 60w equivalents have been 80-105lm/w.... if they are really 800lm.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
@Airwalker16
A 4ft bulb is good to cover a 4x 2' area so you should use 2 of them above a 4x 4' area. With 24" distance to the sides the plants would get at least 4 times less like the plants in the center depending on hanging heights. With 12" distance to the canopy they would still have +24" distance to the tent walls. In this case it's probably 20 times more directly below the bulb.
With 2 parallel bulbs spaced ~24" apart you would get a pretty even coverage and the plants next to the walls would get at least 50% of the center readings. You can lower the fixture to 12" distance and you would still have a pretty good coverage with some overlapping in the middle.
The 14% T5 bulbs are currently the strongest reptile bulbs and produce the highest amounts of UV. E27 CFL's are not comparable because of their 360° angle you need a reflector to focus the light on a certain circular or rectangular area. With the 4ft. bulb you cover a 2x 4' area pretty evenly and the usable range is 12-20". They still have measurable UVB in 28" distance.
You would need probably 3 or 4 of these e27 CFL's to create something comparable. These bulbs are used to create a UVB spot inside the terrarium the reptiles can use when they need it. T5/T8 bulbs are use to create an environment that simulates the natural environment of certain reptiles. So the animals always get enough UVB no matter where they are.
A 4ft bulb is good to cover a 4x 2' area so you should use 2 of them above a 4x 4' area. With 24" distance to the sides the plants would get at least 4 times less like the plants in the center depending on hanging heights. With 12" distance to the canopy they would still have +24" distance to the tent walls. In this case it's probably 20 times more directly below the bulb.
With 2 parallel bulbs spaced ~24" apart you would get a pretty even coverage and the plants next to the walls would get at least 50% of the center readings. You can lower the fixture to 12" distance and you would still have a pretty good coverage with some overlapping in the middle.
The 14% T5 bulbs are currently the strongest reptile bulbs and produce the highest amounts of UV. E27 CFL's are not comparable because of their 360° angle you need a reflector to focus the light on a certain circular or rectangular area. With the 4ft. bulb you cover a 2x 4' area pretty evenly and the usable range is 12-20". They still have measurable UVB in 28" distance.
You would need probably 3 or 4 of these e27 CFL's to create something comparable. These bulbs are used to create a UVB spot inside the terrarium the reptiles can use when they need it. T5/T8 bulbs are use to create an environment that simulates the natural environment of certain reptiles. So the animals always get enough UVB no matter where they are.
GreeneryBob
Well-Known Member
anyone here try using 405nm LEDs to repel bugs?
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
So, I'm assuming you mean T5 when you're taking about using 4 of them... Right? Cause they do not make it for t8. BUT they have these UV200 bulbs. Any information on these bro?
http://www.reptilesupplyco.com/t8-uvb-bulbs/3416-reptile-uvb-200-linear-bulb-48-exo-terra.html
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
On T8, only 12% is made it seems. Might just have to wait and buy those t5ho ballasts.
http://www.reptilebasics.com/arcadia-desert-12-uvb/arcadia-d3-12-uvb-t8-bulb-48/
http://www.reptilebasics.com/arcadia-desert-12-uvb/arcadia-d3-12-uvb-t8-bulb-48/
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Take the Arcadia's! They're much more efficient compared to exo-terra T8 bulbs. They mention neither % or anything else besides "optimal for d3 vitamin synthesis". The Arcadia 14% bulb is indeed one of the latest developements (2017) in this area and till now no other manufacturer has a 14% bulb. The 12% bulbs have comparable results like a Reptisun 10.0 bulb(~150μW/cm² in 12"). With 14% bulbs you get ~150μW/cm² already in 16", with 12" it should be ~200.
So in the end you get the same amount of UVB in 3h compared to a 12% bulb running 4h.
If energy is cheap and it doesn't matters that you need more bulbs with the time, go with T8 or what you want. If you don't like to waste energy go with Arcadias 14% bulb or the Hortilux powerveg+. They last longer because you run them less hours per day and you can use the old bulbs in you veg area because 80% after 1500h is still enough to make the girls used to UVB. And the UVA output stays almost the same over its whole lifetime. UVA sinks just like the white light emission, the UVB emission reduces faster. But you can expect to get still 50% UVB output with a 5000h old T5. So even if this bulbs are more expensive they last longer and have more usable UVB. This means in the end they are actually cheaper like T8's.
T8 can't do this because of the analog driving method.
And that's the only possible issue I'm seeing when using T8 ballasts to run T5 bulbs. If running analog they should age like T8 bulbs. Also "instant on"could not work properly (pling-pling)and you could get the same flickering at the bulb ends like known from T8.
Only a test can answer this questions.
Keesje
Well-Known Member
@Randomblame
I did ask this before, but this subject is so busy that it easily gets overlooked.
I read here (and also in another topic I think), that the plants have to get used to UV-B.
Let's say one would maintain the following schedule: Clones 2-3 weeks, veg for 1-2 weeks and flower for 8-10 weeks.
And one would have 3 different rooms: A: Clone, B: veg and C: flower.
Would it then be possible to - once the clones get to the veg room - start with 1 hour of UV-B the first day in the veg room?
Then 2 hours the next day, etc., and then slowly building it up to 12 hours the day before they go the flower room?
I did ask this before, but this subject is so busy that it easily gets overlooked.
I read here (and also in another topic I think), that the plants have to get used to UV-B.
Let's say one would maintain the following schedule: Clones 2-3 weeks, veg for 1-2 weeks and flower for 8-10 weeks.
And one would have 3 different rooms: A: Clone, B: veg and C: flower.
Would it then be possible to - once the clones get to the veg room - start with 1 hour of UV-B the first day in the veg room?
Then 2 hours the next day, etc., and then slowly building it up to 12 hours the day before they go the flower room?
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
What should I do with these 5 t8 ballasts now though?
Make 2 4 lamp fixtures for veg?
Or should I just ship them back
Make 2 4 lamp fixtures for veg?
Or should I just ship them back
SSGrower
Well-Known Member
Yes return them.
I hate that feeling, I know you wanted this to work.
@Randomblame are you aware of any suitably effeccient drivers with multiple adjustable voltage and current outputs (at least 4) that could run both cobs (say 24 - 72V) and red and uv monos or monocobs (generally a lower voltage (6 - 14V)? Looking for 400-600 total watts.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
To make them used to UVB is neccessary cuz its the same as when you bring a small indoor plant in summer outdoors in the sun. She would need a few days in the shade to acclimate to the new conditions because of the UV radiation. With these bulbs it's the same. I would wait a week until the clone has rooted in properly and than start with maybe 2-4x 15 minutes the day. It takes around a week to make them used to it so in the 2nd week you can already start to increase it.
But for me it makes the most sense to do this one week before I switch the lighting regime to 12/12h. They are used to it when I switch and I can directly start to increase the daily dose to 2h. Usually I leave it there until the first few trichomes are coming up(2-3h) and when the stretch is done and they are fully focussed on flowering they get the full dose(up to 6h).
I will also try to use UVB only from week 5 to finish. Plants receiving UVB switch in a kind of stealth mode. In this mode they are fully focussed to survive. They stay a bit smaller, more dense and compact, the stems get faster hard and woody and they do all to protect the next generation of seeds. This means an early start could be counter productive and you maybe need a longer veg to get the same results. It could make sense to wait until the 1st flowering rush is done ad use it from end of the stretch or even later. You get probably the highest increase in thc when you start from the beginning. But how much more did you get when you start later? Is it only a bit less but you get better yields it could really make sense.
You have anyway to figure out how much a certain strain can handle with every new strain in your grow room and you'll see for sure different response from strain to strain. It's a leaning by doing thing and there is no one size fits all solution.
UV stress looks like heatstress(twisted or curled leaf margins and tips) and you should watch the upper fan leaves carefully cause these leaves have only very little thc in the tissue. So the first signs of stress you see usually on the upper fan leaves.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Nope! Until now I've not seen such a multi channel driver.
Aquarium peeps usually use a big HLG-xxx CV/CC driver to fire a bunch of Meanwell LDD's which is a dc-to-dc driver.
But the highest input voltage is 52v and the usable output voltage is ~50v. You can find lots of dc-to-dc converters on ebay too also with adjustable CC output. I've seen them with 200w and more also with a higher voltage range.
These LDD's have up to 1,5A and could run an CXM22/32 for instance or any other COB with less than 50v@1,5A. You can get them from 350-1500mA, 35 and 52v version and they all are 5v PWM dimmable. So the cheapest reef controller is already enough to control each LDD separately. You can also get PCB's with 4 or 5 build in LDD's and all the needed connectors. You only need to connect the HLG-driver, the COB's, mono strings or strips and the reef controller to this board and its done. The controller firmware is stored on an additional sdcard you get with the controller and the better ones also have a smartphone app to set them up.
The only downside is you'll lose driver efficiency. Lets say you power 10 LDD's with an HLG-480H-48A set to 52v you get 95% efficiency. The LDD's can have up to 97% efficiency when input voltage is only 2-3v above output voltage. The higher the difference the less efficient.52v input and 36: output voltage means probably only 94% or so. So in the best case it's (0,95 x 0,97 =) 92,15% conversion efficiency. In use probably between 85 and 92% depending on setup, channel voltage and dimmer settings.
On e3ay you can find 3 channel RGB drivers with 3 channels and a remote controller. I've seen them from 10-100w. The 100w ones have 3 channels with 20- 40v/900mA. The 50w ones have 600mA per channel but only 33v or less. 30w RGB drivers have only 33v/270mA per channel. They look the same like they other 10-100w china drivers with their silver or golden driver housing. They have just 3 + and one - wire on the DC side. One + wire for each channel and a just one negative connection for all three channels. You can find them for ~20$..
SSGrower
Well-Known Member
I was trying to avoid the ldds because wanting to run when main light not on and if LDD is on same channel any adjustments would impact the main channel unless it were on its own lld too?
Those 3 channel ones are intriguing but seems effeciency is not a priority on them? That's the other thing with the ldds thaking a percent or 2 hit on effeciency.
I was hoping for a single adjustable driver so I could play with the spectrum, seems ldds increase the number of drivers but recovering those losses because the DC to DC are more effecient seems at least feasible?