Recurring problems with indoor grow

[HighGradeNoTilliDie]

Hi guys, i have a 5x5 tent with a mars hydro600 Led 214actual watt
65%rh and 25c lights on
Lights off: Same rh and temp drops to 20c before light comes back on. Light is 3ft away from plants right at the top.(is this still too much for babys)
No co2 but i have a constant outside intake that shuts off when it gets below 20 at lights off.
I have 4 different strains. Two have taken a turn for the worse over this week and the other two are just showing the same symptoms of dying leaves from the bottom
Up and a yellowing but the veins are still green on the leaves.
They are in a first cycle of no till soil. I made the batch up myself after experiencing the exact same same problems with my previous attempt but i was using a sensi grow/bloom a and b. The soil was called plant magic and i thought it was too hot for young plants. As i fed them at this stage last time and i burnt them what resulted in a funky looking plant ive also pictured its two months on now and still alive.
My new soil contains : coco 40% 20%compost 20% worm castinggs 10%perlite 10%rock dust
Then i planted the seeds into this base mix.
I then amended with bone blood and fish meal for base npk then calcified seaweed for cal and mag and rock dust (loads of micro nutes), mycroiza fungi and a powdered inoculant(beneficial microbes)
Theb i let it cook for 6 weeks before adding it to the bottom of the 5gal pots then layering the base mix to the top and then transplating these girls into it. Its been 2weeks since transplant. Plants are around 4weeks old from seed(maybe less)
I was watering with molasses but ive cut that off when they started to turn ive since just watered with plain water ph6.5 untouched mineral water from store as my tap water is 600ppm.
Ive watered in some compost with worm cast yesterday (im watering once a week)
Not sure what to do guys as this is my first set of indoor photo periods and first go at no till. i usally grow autos outside in homemade compost and coco in a green house feeding with the sensi salt nutes and they turn out ok.
Im thinking the base mix wasnt strong enough and they havnt found the 'super soil' mix at the bottom half of pot.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Tia and toke on guys.

 

[blake9999]

You need more light. That Mars Hydro will cover a 2x2 area at best. Right now you have 8 watts/sf. If you want to stick with a piece of crap light you will need to add three more at least.

 

[HighGradeNoTilliDie]

Ive had a few say its too much light at this stage? T5's would suffice?
I can understand flower stage they might not be the best at producing i mightt buy 4 100w led pucks from rapid led but atm im just looking to not kill these babys lol ive backed it up all the way and the node spacing is tight af. You think lowering the light would stop the plants dying from the bottom up?

 

[Renfro]

I don't think it has anything to do with the lights. The yellowing pattern sounds / looks like a magnesium deficiency. If your pH is 6.5 the pH isn't a problem that would cause that unless the soil is way off. Perhaps a foliar feed with a little epsom salt, about 150 ppm worth to help immediately and then figure out a way to get a little more magnesium to the roots.

 

[Renfro]

I didn't notice the coco, I think it needs a little lower pH actually but I am not a coco expert. A foliar feed should help though with the magnesium.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Hi guys, i have a 5x5 tent with a mars hydro600 Led 214actual watt
65%rh and 25c lights on
Lights off: Same rh and temp drops to 20c before light comes back on. Light is 3ft away from plants right at the top.(is this still too much for babys)
No co2 but i have a constant outside intake that shuts off when it gets below 20 at lights off.
I have 4 different strains. Two have taken a turn for the worse over this week and the other two are just showing the same symptoms of dying leaves from the bottom
Up and a yellowing but the veins are still green on the leaves.
They are in a first cycle of no till soil. I made the batch up myself after experiencing the exact same same problems with my previous attempt but i was using a sensi grow/bloom a and b. The soil was called plant magic and i thought it was too hot for young plants. As i fed them at this stage last time and i burnt them what resulted in a funky looking plant ive also pictured its two months on now and still alive.
My new soil contains : coco 40% 20%compost 20% worm castinggs 10%perlite 10%rock dust
Then i planted the seeds into this base mix.
I then amended with bone blood and fish meal for base npk then calcified seaweed for cal and mag and rock dust (loads of micro nutes), mycroiza fungi and a powdered inoculant(beneficial microbes)
Theb i let it cook for 6 weeks before adding it to the bottom of the 5gal pots then layering the base mix to the top and then transplating these girls into it. Its been 2weeks since transplant. Plants are around 4weeks old from seed(maybe less)
I was watering with molasses but ive cut that off when they started to turn ive since just watered with plain water ph6.5 untouched mineral water from store as my tap water is 600ppm.
Ive watered in some compost with worm cast yesterday (im watering once a week)
Not sure what to do guys as this is my first set of indoor photo periods and first go at no till. i usally grow autos outside in homemade compost and coco in a green house feeding with the sensi salt nutes and they turn out ok.
Im thinking the base mix wasnt strong enough and they havnt found the 'super soil' mix at the bottom half of pot.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Tia and toke on guys.

i'm not saying you can't add all those amendments to coco coir, but it seems counterproductive to me. the amendments are to augment soil, and coco isn't soil, and never will be. it contains NOTHING AT ALL to support a biosphere, and you'll have to supply everything, constantly, to keep the herd healthy and doing anything. at least weekly, possibly twice weekly feeding of some kind of carbs, molasses or brown sugar. weekly additions to the herd to keep the numbers up, as they have no place in the coco to colonize.
you say you're only watering once a week. one of the biggest benefits to using coco is the ability to water it daily. the cellular structure of the coco draws in air as water passes through it, daily watering, even multiple small waterings per day will result in very rapid growth. infrequent watering will starve the root zone for oxygen.
i'm not even sure roots will produce the proper exudates in coco, if they do not, your herd will die off quickly, and require at least twice weekly replenishment.
finally, coco needs a ph around 5.8....you can drop down to 5.6, rise to 6.2 once in a while, helps avoid lockouts, but center at 5.8

 

[HighGradeNoTilliDie]

Coco is only part of the mix ive added two types of compost's(forgot to mention that) one multi purpose and one rich in organic matter for vegetables along with worm castings and volcanic rock dust. Its probably a 50%compost 30%coco and 20%other inputs. It was instead of peat moss also to help with drainage.

I don't think it has anything to do with the lights. The yellowing pattern sounds / looks like a magnesium deficiency. If your pH is 6.5 the pH isn't a problem that would cause that unless the soil is way off. Perhaps a foliar feed with a little epsom salt, about 150 ppm worth to help immediately and then figure out a way to get a little more magnesium to the roots.

Ive just done a slurry test and the water going in is 6.5 and coming out at 6.1ph. Cant find my dam e/c pen for the ppm's lol
Thanks for your advice guys

 

[Renfro]

Coco is only part of the mix ive added two types of compost's(forgot to mention that) one multi purpose and one rich in organic matter for vegetables along with worm castings and volcanic rock dust. Its probably a 50%compost 30%coco and 20%other inputs. It was instead of peat moss also to help with drainage.

Ive just done a slurry test and the water going in is 6.5 and coming out at 6.1ph. Cant find my dam e/c pen for the ppm's lol
Thanks for your advice guys

As @Roger A. Shrubber mentioned, for coco you want a pH of 5.8.

 

[HighGradeNoTilliDie]

i'm not saying you can't add all those amendments to coco coir, but it seems counterproductive to me. the amendments are to augment soil, and coco isn't soil, and never will be. it contains NOTHING AT ALL to support a biosphere, and you'll have to supply everything, constantly, to keep the herd healthy and doing anything. at least weekly, possibly twice weekly feeding of some kind of carbs, molasses or brown sugar. weekly additions to the herd to keep the numbers up, as they have no place in the coco to colonize.
you say you're only watering once a week. one of the biggest benefits to using coco is the ability to water it daily. the cellular structure of the coco draws in air as water passes through it, daily watering, even multiple small waterings per day will result in very rapid growth. infrequent watering will starve the root zone for oxygen.
i'm not even sure roots will produce the proper exudates in coco, if they do not, your herd will die off quickly, and require at least twice weekly replenishment.
finally, coco needs a ph around 5.8....you can drop down to 5.6, rise to 6.2 once in a while, helps avoid lockouts, but center at 5.8

I have been adding seed sprouts all blended up with molasses to the water along with a microbe inoculant its supose to be a kinda instant compost tea. Im in no doubt its bot as good as home made but my air pump is in the mail. Ive stopped the molasses this week cause someone told me that i could be over loading the possasium.
Yesterday i added more microbes and alfalfa seed sprouts blended up in the water along with a handfull for fresh worm casting and watered in. Was going to leave them a week to slightly dry as someone else has said over watering lol tbh once a week seems right with tw multch layer keeping it moist but i know more watering more feedings/more time the roots are at optimum air/water ratio.

As @Roger A. Shrubber mentioned, for coco you want a pH of 5.8.

Even when mixed heavy with composts and other bits?
Also with a no till system arnt the microbes supose to do the work as long as you are in range?
Thanks

 

[Renfro]

Even when mixed heavy with composts and other bits?
Also with a no till system arnt the microbes supose to do the work as long as you are in range?
Thanks

I think you are in a new territory there and you may have to experiment to find whats proper. I don't know of anyone doing a no till with coco.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Even when mixed heavy with composts and other bits?

that's the problem, right there...who knows? i don't, and neither do you. soil has a natural buffering action, coco does not...all i can say is experiment, grow 4 or 5 plants and try different phs on them all, run one at 5.5, one at 5.8, one at 6.1, one at 6.5....see how they do...cause once you start mixing media with different ph requirements, then adding amendments...i honestly have no idea what the results will be, but it aint gonna be 5.8 or 6.5....

 

[HighGradeNoTilliDie]

Ok i see. I was doing research on supersoils and they seemed to be all made the same way either with a potting mix as a base and then worm castings and compost mixed in then all sorts of amendments.
I was under the impression you can either use peatmoss or coco no problem to add drainage to the heavy composts and worm casts. Thats all the potting mixes contain to bulk them up. Maybe i should of gone with peat moss. I had a block of coco already so just used what i had.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Ok i see. I was doing research on supersoils and they seemed to be all made the same way either with a potting mix as a base and then worm castings and compost mixed in then all sorts of amendments.
I was under the impression you can either use peatmoss or coco no problem to add drainage to the heavy composts and worm casts. Thats all the potting mixes contain to bulk them up. Maybe i should of gone with peat moss. I had a block of coco already so just used what i had.

i'm not going to tell you it can't be done, just that it seems problematic to me. if you want to run no till soil, run no till SOIL...
i'm sure you can make it work, but you'll have to do a little experimenting and may have a poor crop or two before you tune it in

 

[HighGradeNoTilliDie]

Ive read it breaks down after a while and being a organic material the microbes eat it eventually. I was watching a video and they said its a substitute for peat moss and its more eco friendly? Defo a learning curve Thanks again if i get these girls to harvest i might make another batch differently. Or if they die one or the other
Im going to try a foliar feed.

 

[Bigworm4201982]

My guess is the soil is to hot at that stage of growth. Let them get bigger before you put them in that hot of a mix.

I dont do no till so im prob wrong. I have tried amending coco with castings and guano and other things and it was just to heavy and compacted to work for me.

 

[HighGradeNoTilliDie]

It was layered so the top half is in the light base mix with only compost worm castings and rock dust as nutes then the coco lightening it up.
I was thinking because the roots havnt got down to the hot stuff it was maybe too light of a mix.
Gonna give them a week. The two at the back seem to be growing still.

 

[polishpollack]

Interesting you've used straw for an indoor grow. This might insulate the soil, preventing a faster evaporation process. It kind of looks like your soil is very wet and probably staying that way. You might have an over water condition going on there. You need to let the soil dry out so oxygen can get to the roots, then water again. I think this might be at least part of your problem. Remove the straw and let the soil dry quite a bit before you water again.

 

[HighGradeNoTilliDie]

Im trying to create a multch layer with cover crop i had clover that i turned in with worm castings on top 2:1 ratio of brown and green. Ive re planted the cover crop and put a little more straw down. They do dry out quite well the straw 100% slows it down though i know what you mean. I was going to let it dry a little more then you should for no till as someone else suggested over watering to me. The fabric pots help and its not compacted at all. Worried ill hurt the soil life lettingg it dry like you would salt based nutes so may have quite easily gone other way and watered too much lol

 

[polishpollack]

Remove straw. Let soil dry. Don't worry. Water less frequently.

 

[CannaCountry]

Your girls are short on Mg...a little Epsom salt, foliar fed, will help until you get your system dialed in.

If you're serious about 'No Till', look up Joshua Steensland on youtube...the guy rocks an indoor, no till grow...he's a guru on that particular subject, and it's been my experience, most are not...if I was growing no till, this is the guy I'd be emulating.

Otherwise, it would be best to leave out the Coco next time...unless you choose to grow with it completely.